UKC

In reply to jonathandavey:
Sounds like Stranger in the Woods (HVS 5a) which is a fairly good HVS 5a** in the new YMC guide. "Brilliant moves, away from the pockets, gain a rampline. Finish left at the top of this"

UKC logbook for that part of the crag really needs a sort out

In reply to Graeme Hammond:
It sounds like a mixture of the three routes ... Stranger in the Woods doesn't use the pockets and is a bit eliminate in that (not 2 star for that reason in my view). Lots of good new stuff in that area in the new YMC guide all the way down to starred mods.

Its not just route order, loads of routes seem to be missing in that area having just looked... the moderator needs to go through the YMC guide and sort them all out. Its nearly three years since publication now.

In reply to Offwidth:

My guide says "Start as for Pocket Wall but move left into niche, then move and diagonally left to finish'

Lots of new stuff? Where?!

In reply to Graeme Hammond:

Thanks for the info, Strangers in the Woods sounds right. It felt to me like a natural way of getting up to the rising rampline holds.

The Heptonstall moderator has long been inactive, apart from boosting his own ego. Check out the crag description!

In reply to Bulls Crack:
Look in the latest YMC guidebook on the buttress just right.

In reply to Offwidth:

And file under 'done years ago but no-one thought it worth writing down'?!

In reply to Bulls Crack:

I'm very surprised you hold that view, have you actually climbed them??. The YMC didn't agree as they included the routes. I'd add that quite a few people have thanked me for pointing out these additions to the Right-Hand Outcrops provide a significant improvement to a reliable lower-grade, year-round venue, close to a car park. One of the newly listed lines, Main Buttress Left, M, gives about 10m of sustained protectable juggy interest and is one of the best routes of its grade in the guidebook, another, Obvious Arete, S, is shorter but still delightful....just two of five starred climbs in the area of the crag. Irrespective of the merits of their inclusion, they got included, people climb them, and the logbook needs updating.

In reply to Offwidth:

I've done a few of them ages ago - but we're talking a very minor crag here and why could they just not be left as they were and maybe say: you can make your own way up the bits of rock to the right - enjoy! Do we have to document everything?

In reply to Bulls Crack:
Well since the YMC guide lacks convenient, year-round-reliable, clean, quality, low-grade stuff compared to Peak guides and most of the routes there were already listed in earlier guides I'd say the new lines are a very useful addition. You list stuff to guide people to climbs they might want to climb and lower grade climbers buy more guidebooks. In contast too many of Heptonstall listed climbs are vegetated and unlikely to attract any real attention without a good clean and even then probably won't get more than a few ascents a year. I've never seem a climber since publication on the Black Wall area and only a few on Lower Quarry, depite all the starred lines.

Not taking lower grade climbers seriously is a 'nail in the coffin' for definitive guides. For lower grade climbers interested in Yorkshire grit, the improvements in the double volume (compared the previous guide) are significant and offer way more route possibilities, better grading and more useful information on the classics than Rockfax, as well as a wealth of lower grade bouldering and all the fun articles on local leading edge climbers and their contributions to the area history.

In reply to Offwidth:

Point taken but it does seem that every sqaure metre is being documented at times.

But then I'm responsible for: Grindley's Senile Bull (VS 4c) !

In reply to Bulls Crack:

It always annoys me when a guidebook tells me that an area of rock can be climbed at easy grades but without any more information. Those operating at those grades are the ones most likely to need guidance. Anyone climbing harder who wants to just solo around at random doesn't need to read the book!

In reply to Bulls Crack:

Which I'll be amazed, as I slowly climb through YMC obscurities, if I don't end up in the first ten ascents. I've climbed that starred Mod over ten times myself. Its really good ...go try it.

In reply to Offwidth:


I did just that yesterday. Better than it looked I admit - not sure I'd go as far as a star though - but over-rating is not as great a crime as over-grading

In reply to Bulls Crack:

I'm happy with the star.. you have to put yourself in the mindset of the scrambler seeking technical challenges. The moves are juggy and the way to go reveals itself delightfully. Yet its more the context of being in a cluster of good no star and similar quality one star routes that matters with that buttress. Glad you enjoyed it.

In reply to Offwidth:

I'd rather see routes like this get given the benefit of the doubt in terms of starring, so they attract more ascents - if the consensus is that the star isn't worth it then it can be removed in the next edition. If you go the other way and don't give a star in the first place, nobody will climb it