/ New Trad Harness - Lots of Gear Loops

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SuperLee1985 - on 13 Jul 2017
My current trad harness (Wild Country Synchro) has seen better days and I'm looking to replace it.
One thing I really like about this harness is the number of gear loops (7), which I find really useful for organising my rack and being able to find what I want quickly.

I know that the DMM Renegade and the new Synchro are both well endowed in this department.

Are there any other harnesses worth considering?
Macleod on 13 Jul 2017
In reply to SuperLee1985:

Personally, I like the renegade.

But misty mountain do also have some offerings with a ton of gear loops if you want to carry an aid rack...

https://mistymountain.com/shop/climbing/climbing-harnesses/titan-harness/
HeMa on 13 Jul 2017
In reply to SuperLee1985:
> Are there any other harnesses worth considering?


Ocun WeBee Quatro and some other big wall harnesses. Problem with them is the fact, that most are too bulky for other than aid.

TobyA on 13 Jul 2017
In reply to SuperLee1985:

The Renegade is the obvious choice, I've had two for reviewing - the first and second version both very good although not perfect. More recently I've been using 4 rack harnesses and getting used to putting a full rack on them, but 7 racks is easier.
Rob Morgan on 13 Jul 2017
In reply to SuperLee1985:

Worth looking at the new Synchro harness. I preferred the gear loop placement on it over the Renegade.
SenzuBean - on 13 Jul 2017
In reply to SuperLee1985:

Petzl Sitta essentially has 6 gear loops + haul loop. It can fit a huge rack quite easily, and is very light. I would prefer it to be slightly more durable, but it works great.
JR_NL - on 14 Jul 2017
In reply to SuperLee1985:

If you have money to spare you can take a look at the Arcteryx AR-395a. 'Only' 4 gear loops, but they are massive and the harness is very light and comfy.
dread-i - on 14 Jul 2017
In reply to SuperLee1985:

If you find the right harness, but it doesn't have enough gear loops, you can always add some.
You can thread a bit of cord through some 3mm tube and tie that on. Just a thought.
SuperLee1985 - on 14 Jul 2017
In reply to SuperLee1985:

Thanks for the suggestions, will do a bit of web shopping at the weekend.
brianjcooper on 14 Jul 2017
In reply to SuperLee1985:

I've got a DMM renegade II and a new WC Syncro. Both excellent, but find the gear loops, furthest from the front, on the Renegade harder to reach.
Rock to Fakey - on 21 Jul 2017
In reply to brianjcooper:
I realised the super comfy Edelrid Orion sport harness i bought is not ideal for trad, because the gear loops were too far back.
With some harnesses, this is not necessarily down to the design, it can also be due to the size that best fits you, as going up a size will bring them closer to the front. But with the Orion, this only narrowed the gap from 40cm to 38cm.

I went on a mission with a tape measure to find the harness that brought them closest to the front, although also curious if too near the front could be an issue. Only wearing in use would be conclusive.
I tried loads.

When i bought the Orion, the Wild country Synchro was my 2nd choice for comfort, + only cos i noted that part of the seam seemed a bit potentially chaffy.
So i tried it again...
DBFGL = distance between front gear loops.

After trying plenty, + measuring the dbfgl on a couple of sizes of each, i noticed the DMM Renegade 2 was the winner.. if this was a good criteria to decide on.

Dmm Renegade 2 DBFGL = 23 cm on me in a medium.

2nd place was WC Synchro... DBFGL = 33cm in a medium/large for me.

I was torn between the 2, especially with the Synchros overlapping gear loop, but went for the Renny.
Having used it for sport now, i'd say the gear loops are too close to the front for sport !
Haven't tried the Renny with trad yet, hopefully will be testing it this Sunday.

So i'm going to buy the Synchro soon too, see if that works for everything, sport + trad, + it's super comfy.

The Renny is about 50g lighter though!

Both have the advantage of making it possible to centralise the belay loop, regardless of your waiste size... Dmm with floating belt, WC with 2 buckles on belt, 1 each side of belay loop.

The Orion is probably ok for sport.

Might have a harness or 2 for sale soon.
Post edited at 22:06
springfall2008 - on 22 Jul 2017
In reply to SuperLee1985:

I have the DMM Renegade, it's a great harness but sometimes gets a bit uncomfortable around the waist when heavily loaded with gear for many hours. My friend has a big-wall harness which is much better padded.
brianjcooper on 22 Jul 2017
In reply to Rock to Fakey:
Another small item I like about the new WC Syncro, is the gear loops are now rigid, which stops gear from sagging and 'bunching' up together.
Post edited at 15:07
Rock to Fakey - on 22 Jul 2017
In reply to brianjcooper:

It would be nice if they could be made with the tubing stuff on, not many companies are doing this now, wasn't it a good idea?
I thought i saw someone with an older renegade + it had tubing, or was i seeing stuff?
ads.ukclimbing.com
brianjcooper on 22 Jul 2017
In reply to Rock to Fakey:

My old Syncro has thin plastic tubing on the loops, but it's not rigid enough to stop the 'bunching' I mentioned.
Doesn't make a huge difference though as they both don't seem to be capable of climbing harder than HVS!
spenser - on 22 Jul 2017
In reply to Rock to Fakey:

The old renegade did have the tubing on it. Personally I lost the plot with my renegade when it dumped half my rack in my lap for the 6th rockover in a row that day, having already spent a bit of time researching a new harness I stopped off at Outside on the way home and bought a new one (Edelrid Orion, much comfier, nice and light, plenty of space for gear with 4 big loops.
Rock to Fakey - on 22 Jul 2017
In reply to spenser:
The Renegade is actually lighter than the Orion, not much in it, but...
Small Orion = 423g, small renegade 395g.

Surprised you don't find the gear loops too far back on the Orion, if using for trad though, that's exactly why shopped for another, but still haven't tried the Renegade for trad yet.
Post edited at 23:58
spenser - on 23 Jul 2017
In reply to Rock to Fakey:

I'll admit I didn't look at the weights, I was far more interesting in hanging about in it and making sure I wouldn't feel like my kidneys had been kicked in if I decided to go aid climbing again!
I prefer the loops to be too far back than too far forward, I only keep quickdraws and belay gear on the rear loops and can pretty much tell what I've got hold of by feel.
Kevster - on 23 Jul 2017
In reply to SuperLee1985:

I use the arcteryx big wall version, 6 loops, and a krab on the rear haul loop for nut key, jacket, malion etc.
I have a "full rack" or skirt as some call it which fits fine on the loops. My only reservation is the thin waist belt material when fully loaded can roll a little on the bottom next to my hips.
It isn't cheap, but is light and compact which is great for fitting it in a pack.
TobyA on 23 Jul 2017
In reply to spenser and Rock to Fakey:

Interestingly I have a quite a history with these two harnesses:
I reviewed the first Renegade in 2008 https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=1333 then DMM sent me the second version to review 5 years later http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/dmm-renegade-harness-review.html and I reviewed the Orion for UKC that same yearhttps://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=5779
I still use the Orion and Renegade 2 regularly, although if I'm feeling lazy and want to take a small bag the Edelrid Leaf often gets chucked in as its so small and light! https://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=7449

I've got used over the last few years to fitting all the gear I want on to four racks although 7 on the DMM makes things much less squashed up, and I've never been bothered about gear being far forward with the Renegade but equally finding stuff on the rear racks on the Edelrid doesn't seem that much of a chore either. It's odd how divisive these little differences can be for different climbers. Perhaps its just having used lots of different harnesses over many years I'm not too fussed now. Pro and cons for each one, and I've never found differences in comfort to be that stark between decent harnesses.
Rock to Fakey - on 23 Jul 2017
In reply to TobyA:
Yeah maybe, a have a bad neck possibly developing from a bad shoulder + not helped by riding a motorbike with blind spot checks followed by hitting the throttle sometimes tweeks my neck plus i landed a juijitsu throw badly on my neck + i may have lymes disease from tick bites which apparently gives you a really bad neck too, so i'm a real pain in the neck type, and currently not happy about having to twist to see out of reach gear!
I've just strarted a course of antibiotics to clear any possible lymes, but probably should have started it a couple of months back. I probably should go follow up with the blood tests too.
I seem to be finding it hard these days to find the right pillow height, but believe it's been too high now for years, although it felt good, it probably hasn't done my posture any good.
I had to try a sports massage b4 a climb a month ago, + recently my back, neck + shoulders have been getting so tight that it sometimes even hurts (mildly) just breathing! I probably should start another thread.... That's digressing alot!
Post edited at 12:15
Luke90 on 23 Jul 2017
In reply to Kevster:

> I use the arcteryx big wall version, 6 loops, and a krab on the rear haul loop for nut key, jacket, malion etc.

Do you know whether they still make that? It sounds interesting but I can't see it on their website. The current range seems to vary from "light" to "super light", with a maximum of four gear loops.
Rock to Fakey - on 23 Jul 2017
In reply to TobyA:

Good reviews by the way, have addressed all pros + cons well. Read your megajul review too, all very honest + transparent. Personally i hate it, but keep giving it a try. For abseiling it sucks!
The DMM floating belt really is a great innovation.

I have the Edelrid Loopo too... it was the first harness i bought getting back into climbing, partly cos it cost only around £30 from BF at the time, + for lightweight. I was just climbing indoors last year. It is really comfy, in fact sometimes the Orion cuts into my crotch a bit, perhaps i haven't got the leg loops set right. But i don't worry about this with the Loopo.... i do worry about falling + inverting + the harness not holding me though! ( no belt or buckles, just tie into 2 waist hoops.) It is surprisingly comfy to fall in though. Will b good for sport RP + OS.
TobyA on 23 Jul 2017
In reply to Rock to Fakey:
> Read your megajul review too, all very honest + transparent. Personally i hate it, but keep giving it a try. For abseiling it sucks!

Yeah everyone says that, but you're all wrong.

Actually, every time I ab off something using the megajul I try to work out why everyone hates it so much while I think its brilliant. I even taken to snapping photos on my phone, mid-abseil, to aid in this speculation! https://photos.app.goo.gl/G7fzLxeVM3dlvMlo1 (think you should be able to see that - it was a couple of weeks back at Stoney). It heats up perhaps a bit more than alloy devices buts that's about it for negatives I can find.

p.s. If you think you have lyme's get whatever tests you can ASAP - some people on UKC have had years of quite horrible problems that were eventually turned out to be lyme's disease. Take it seriously and try to get your doctor too also! Good luck and hope its all clear, or at least gets knocked out by the antibiotics.
Post edited at 13:01
Rock to Fakey - on 23 Jul 2017
In reply to TobyA:
It works ok in one mode for ab, can't remeber which, but in either mode, I found it is virtually impossible / very difficult to pull back up the rope a bit, which you sometimes need to do, don't you think?
Blood tests appointment will be made tmrw.
It would b fab to find out it is the cause of alot of this, as posted above, cheers Toby.

I get webpage not available with the link.

I keep thinking my posture riding a motorbike bike could b causing the issues too... Its a sports tourer, so not too cramped up, but a lot of tension can build in shoulders from holding the bars, + in back, from a hours ride every other day, each way to work / climb, etc + the neck twists for blindspots,, especially in winter, neck can be exposed more to the cold, but i do cover it.
I don't do the bikers nod much!
Will be ditching it for this winter ( hopefully not literally!)
Post edited at 13:30
Stuart the postie - on 23 Jul 2017
In reply to Rock to Fakey:


> The DMM floating belt really is a great innovation.


Troll did this 25+ years ago!!!!! The only other harness, other than DMM these days, is Ocun Twist Tech, so simply obvious, why don't others?

Stuart
Prof. Outdoors on 23 Jul 2017
In reply to Rock to Fakey:

Measuring distance between gear loops.
Quick question.
Did you measure the distances whilst wearing the harnesses (same circumference) or measuring the distances at maximum tightness, ie smallest potential waist. The design of the reinforcing around the central belay loop would affet the distance between gear loops in the second case?

Rock to Fakey - on 23 Jul 2017
In reply to Prof. Outdoors:
For me, i measured it whilst wearing it, because that's what i want to see, what i get when wearing it,... done up reasonably/ moderately tight, well, as if going climbing, and measured by putting the tape from the outside edge of front most part of front most gear loop on one side, through the belay loop, to the corresponding part of gear loop at the other side.
Make sense?
My measurements are for a 30 / 32 inch waist.
S'pose i should put that in cm, as my dbfgl measurements are, but hey ho!
Post edited at 21:41
Prof. Outdoors on 23 Jul 2017
In reply to Rock to Fakey:

Thanks for clarification.

I used an older plastic covered gear loop Renegade and really liked it as the gear loops were not too far back.
Recently bought a new Renegade 2 in the same medium size.

The padding section on the new Renegade 2 is the same size therefore the same fit. However the gear loops are further back. So much so that I will be selling it as I just found them too far back for trad, especially if I was wearing a rucksack.

Gone back to my old Renegade whilst I look at my options.

Rock to Fakey - on 23 Jul 2017
In reply to Prof. Outdoors:

Try the next size up, you can centralize it still, tbf,, my size, the med/lge they call it, is almost too big,, i have to double back the belt end through both elastic retainers!
brianjcooper on 26 Jul 2017
In reply to Prof. Outdoors:
> Thanks for clarification.

> So much so that I will be selling it as I just found them too far back for trad, especially if I was wearing a rucksack.

> Gone back to my old Renegade whilst I look at my options.

I came to the same conclusion with the Renegade II although it's also a good harness. That's why I have the new Syncro with the gear loops overlapping like the older version.

The Syncro also has two buckles at the front which allows better fitting depending on clothing worn.
Post edited at 10:41

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