/ What?!?!?

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Panda8ach - on 15 Jul 2017
Harborough Rocks

After driving 120 miles to climb at Harborough Rocks we found a large group being led by an instructor. Although this was frustrating as they had set up where we had planned to go, the early bird catches the best spot I guess. What has frustrated us as we sit here is that the whole group has walked down the hill, got on their coach, driven off for lunch and left ALL their gear! Top ropes still anchored, belay devices still on rope etc.... What?!?!? I'm in shock......
petegunn on 15 Jul 2017
In reply to Panda8ach:

Extreme case of crag swag!
deacondeacon - on 15 Jul 2017
In reply to Panda8ach:
FFS just move it out the way and have a climb.
Did you actually speak to them?

And as for driving 120 miles to climb at Harborough Rocks, are you mental?
;)
Post edited at 12:58
Panda8ach - on 15 Jul 2017
In reply to petegunn:

Haha we did think about it! That's the rules
Panda8ach - on 15 Jul 2017
In reply to deacondeacon:

I love the dolomite plus we're from East Yorkshire... Nothing but desperate choss
Wayne S - on 15 Jul 2017
In reply to Panda8ach:

Most groups will gladly move ropes if you want to lead a route.
Panda8ach - on 15 Jul 2017
In reply to Wayne S:

I'm sure they'd be cool to do that but they're not here been gone 2 hours!
mik82 - on 15 Jul 2017
In reply to Panda8ach:

You could do them a favour and take everything down, neatly coil the ropes, and get it ready for them to pick up!
purplemonkeyelephant - on 15 Jul 2017
In reply to Panda8ach:

Kindly explain there was a freak localised storm that lasted 2 hours and blew all their gear to the ground, but weirdly stopped as soon as they got back which is when you started climbing.
Wayne S - on 15 Jul 2017
In reply to Panda8ach:

There are over 50 routes and problems at Harborough. They can't have that many ropes up. You have Brassington, Willersley Castle Crag and Wildcat all within about 4 miles. Intake Quarry is mins away for some Sport, and Black Rocks for some grit..............or you can sit at probably the most minor of Peak limestone crags which is well known as a group venue and moan? To be honest you are mins away from any amount of climbing. Where else could you find gritstone, limestone Sport and Trad in such a small geographical area?
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GridNorth - on 15 Jul 2017
In reply to Wayne S:

Whilst pragmatic and realistic that totally misses the point. We should discourage what is, after all, selfish, thoughtless behaviour.

Al
Panda8ach - on 15 Jul 2017
In reply to Wayne S:

I appreciate what you're saying and while I agree with some parts, we did come here to do certain routes. They have taken up the whole of the cave area and yes, they do have shit loads of ropes! The point of my 'moan' was out of frustration that someone is doing something that is considered bad form. Thanks
Wayne S - on 15 Jul 2017
In reply to GridNorth:

"Down with this sort of thing"

Hmmmmm, you have to read between the lines here. Don't get me wrong I have very little time for groups hogging crags with top ropes. But take a look at logbooks.





Panda8ach - on 15 Jul 2017
In reply to Wayne S:

Lol... I know I'll just carry on hating them in my head! Got a few routes done so I'm a happy girl overall
Wayne S - on 15 Jul 2017
In reply to Panda8ach:

Move the ropes, do your route and smile. Sometimes when you travel a long way with a narrow set of objectives is easy to loose perspective.


Wayne S - on 15 Jul 2017
In reply to Panda8ach:
:-p Glad you enjoyed, and more importantly glad it stayed dry! Anyway if the ropes are still there and they haven't returned then they must be crag booty by now. I try and be philosophical, if it's a local group, then hopefully it's keeping some local yooofs busy who would only be throwing bottles and cans off Black Rocks else.
Post edited at 15:42
Offwidth - on 15 Jul 2017
In reply to Panda8ach:
Politely point these out to the group for their future planning of group venues:

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/green-guide-to-the-uplands

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/Download.aspx?id=1330
Post edited at 15:55
Panda8ach - on 15 Jul 2017
In reply to Offwidth:

Thanks very much
Chris Harris - on 15 Jul 2017
In reply to Panda8ach:


> driving 120 miles to climb at Harborough Rocks. I'm in shock......

Me too, reading that.


bouldery bits - on 15 Jul 2017
In reply to Panda8ach:

At least they didn't leave the ropes fixed high in the Lakes eh?

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Ron Kenyon - on 15 Jul 2017
In reply to Panda8ach:

This sort of activity by some groups of taking over and leaving ropes does piss folk off.
If I had driven 120 miles with some routes in mind and there was a rope on it and the group had gone off for lunch I would have pulled the rope down coiled it up and left it at the bottom.
The group does not own the crag and should consider other users ie yourself.
Timmd on 16 Jul 2017
In reply to Panda8ach:
> I love the dolomite plus we're from East Yorkshire... Nothing but desperate choss

The East Yorkshire Mountaineering Club is full of manic climbers who get a lot done afaik?

A relative was a member during the 70's and described them as 'manic', with pranks like tying one of a party to a pole and dancing round her with ice axes. Fast forward 40 years, and the daughter of one of their friends who climbs with them described them as 'manic'.

Could possibly be worth getting in touch/joining if you're not already?
Post edited at 07:18
Wayne S - on 16 Jul 2017
In reply to Panda8ach:
Hi,

To make up for my in-built lack of empathy, if you are covering miles over this way, take a look at:

Windgather Rocks

might be worth some thought, really like a gritstone version of Harborough but with better views and no factory. It is less rounded than some grit and has ripples/edges, (a bit like Scugdale). Close by is Castle Naze which is pretty good too. Though I am struggling to think of an equivalent to Harborough as in short limestone crag with easy crag top access and good belays. Maybe others might have some ideas with this.

Other options:
Burbage North
Yarncliffe Quarry

Wayne
Post edited at 08:24
johncook - on 16 Jul 2017
In reply to Offwidth:

Tried that with a local group in the first bay at Lawrencefield who were sliding down the hard routes. Apparently those rules are advisory, no one climbs the routes involved, they are qualified instructors and so know what they are doing and know where to do it. their base couldn't even be bothered to respond to an e-mail!
Some of these groups are getting out of control!
Scotch Bingington - on 16 Jul 2017
In reply to Panda8ach:
Annoying isn't it? At one of my regular haunts there is a large group that regularly indulges in the same sort of behaviour. Once they even tried to 'reserve' a significant portion of the crag by taping it off!

They did this on a Friday and left it in place over the weekend because they were returning the following Monday and that "no one else uses the crag". This is the single most visited crag in the entire country btw (it isn't in the UK - although the group in question are from the UK - great ambassadors eh?).
Post edited at 09:40
Fruit on 16 Jul 2017
In reply to johncook:

There are some serious conflict to come with commercial ventures using crags on public, and often, private land as if they were their own facilities. Profiting from them to the detriment of others, via restricting availability of good routes, causing damage/wear/polish and potentially raising the likely hood of land owners seeking to share in the leisure value of the crags. Tricky times ahead.
Fruit on 16 Jul 2017
In reply to Panda8ach:

Selfish
Thoughtless
Offwidth - on 16 Jul 2017
In reply to johncook:
Name and shame in that case. If we want groups to behave better we need to approach the ones who are not and politely ask if they are aware of best practice and expose the really bad ones who ignore this. Nearly every commercial, group we met in the Peak in the 12 years we working on the BMC Peak grit guides were reasonably well behaved. This was in contrast to groups I met at Ilkley and Almscliffe where I've challenged unsafe practice several times and was physically threatened once.. The only terrible one I recall in the Peak was an SPA training group doing a rescue on The Scoop at Castle Naze about 15 years back.. both unethical and risky (dislodging loose stuff onto the simulated victim) and the most pompous leader I've ever had to deal with..."they have to be free to make mistakes etc.... my response was instructors are not there to ensure they carry them through.... a very fat guy so quite distinctive... his SPA students understood my point immediately.

The big problems we had in the Peak with stand-offs were: with some cadets (abseil group about 15 years back at Roaches on a classic pebble dependant high extreme with an angry but not threatening leader who backed down eventually); numerous student groups (quite a few where the student 'leader' was turned in by his student beginners); and of all things a Mountain Rescue group (about 20 years back) doing a simulated stretcher rescue at Harbourough whilst knocking lumps off the edges of the Dolomitic jugs ... that got quite heated as well as they were doing it to save lives and we were just worried about lifeless rock.
Post edited at 11:10

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