In reply to paul_in_cumbria:
> Do you not think STP has also got a point too? The average weekend activity on the UKC logbooks is sub-VS and on the whole pro is only limited by how much you can carry up with you. I think the perceived risk is probably higher than actual risk which is actually on a par with sports climbs on average. It's (in)competence or a lapse of concentration which turns it into an adventure sport...
> What do you think?
It's a tricky one. As Graham pointed out, trad covers such a wide spectrum from Stanage Popular to Cloggy, Red Wall etc. Nowadays many people going from sport to trad seem to have several (physical) grades in hand, e.g. climbing F6a and Hard Severe. And nowadays people carry what seem to be to be huge racks (but maybe I'm joining 'em!) In 'Big Wall Climbing', Doug Scott had a photo of someone with (to him at the time) a ridiculous rack on grit. That's pretty normal now. And nowadays people have as much info as they need (and proper grades, courtesy of altrustic souls such as Offwidth).
And yet... and yet... all of these seem like attempts to tame the beast. (And ironically when the beast is tamed - sport climbing/climbing walls - people become complacent, feel safe and indulge in unsafe practices.)
Most of my hairy moments trad climbing have come not on hard routes (for me) but when things have gone horribly wrong.
For instance, chosen at random:
Stopping Jim Erickson when he slipped at the top of Cenotaph Corner. He was about 14 stone; I was eight and a half. We slid helplessly to the edge and really both of us should have gone over.
Getting right up shit creek on a new route in Ireland (still undone over 40 years later!) and staying on the same smears for about an hour, facing horrible calf pump, knowing a slip would be fatal.
Missing the crucial runner placement on Man of Straw and reversing the corner in an unexpected deluge, with no gear.
Having another unexpected deluge on Central Buttress at Avon and having to carry on (couldn't really stay where I was) on glassy, polished, soaking wet limestone, with no gear.
The common denominators - things just going wrong and having to suck it up and deal with it. That's where my own 'apprenticeship' - soloing choss in Ireland - came in handy.
So how do people develop the judgement to stay out of trouble and the fortitude to see it through when they do end up in trouble?
'...you know it ain't easy
you know how hard it can be...'
Mick