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Footpath Maintenance

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 sweetpea 18 Jul 2017

I did a walk at the weekend with my trusty hound up to the popular Ingleborough summit. I followed an established path from Clapham up past the Ingleborough Caves etc and eventually to the summit. The paths were clearly marked and in reasonable condition given the weather (It was chucking it down)

For the walk down I decided to head back towards Ingleton and following a route I have found on the Interweb and cross referencing this with my OS map.... I soon discovered that this was going to be a challenge.

I Quickly found that we were starting to share fields with a lot of livestock.... in particular Cows. Now I'm not bothered by this normally - however these cows in particular were intent on chasing us down..... to the point where I couldn't get across the field quick enough and launching the dog over a fence before climbing to safety myself.

I must say I don't think I've ever been so intimidated by cows before!...... they were literally running at us. yikes.

Anyway.... this continued for several fields and eventually to the point where the footpaths that I wanted to use were so overgrown that they were not walkable.

I resorted to making our way to the nearest road and found ourselves walking the last two miles of the walk by road..... not exactly what I was expecting for this visit to the Dales.

The paths that I wanted to use were clearly marked and official but obviously due to lack of use or lack of maintenance these were completely overgrown.

Question is - who's responsibility is it to look after these to ensure they are fit for purpose??

It was only after this experience and whilst walking back to the car park.... that I noticed many other paths which were unwalkable due to their condition.

I'd appreciate any info views on this topic

Thanks SP
Post edited at 09:59
1
 Bob Aitken 18 Jul 2017
In reply to sweetpea:

Without knowing the details, it might well have something to do with this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38462686

Times are hard in the National Parks.
 summo 18 Jul 2017
In reply to sweetpea:
You sound like the perfect candidate to volunteer and do some work for them on footpaths. Give the grassington office a call, the coordinator there is a keen mountaineer.

http://www.yorkshiredales.org.uk/ydnpa/our-people/current-volunteering-oppo...
Post edited at 10:20
OP sweetpea 18 Jul 2017
In reply to Bob Aitken:

Thanks for the link..... I agree that times are hard for most.

I realise there any probably many other factors which lead to the problems I have encountered..... but Its little things like the car parking situation.

There is a public car park in Clapham with plenty of spaces. This car park is accessed via a reasonably narrow road and yet despite this, people still park either side of the road. There are signs that the local residents have put up about being considerate about the parking etc.... but this seemed to have little or no effect whilst I was there.

To park all day was I think £4.30..... which o.k seems a little steep, but if people don't use the car parks how else are they going to generate an income to do the jobs that I am referring too..... such as path maintenance?

Rant over....

SP
OP sweetpea 18 Jul 2017
In reply to summo:
I do my fair share of volunteer work.... and have no problem getting my hands dirty.... you going to join us the more the merrier??

SP
Post edited at 10:25
 summo 18 Jul 2017
In reply to sweetpea:

> how else are they going to generate an income to do the jobs that I am referring too..... such as path maintenance?

They can merge the admin and management of all the parks, have national policies, combine their current independent supply chains for their shops, remove many of their over paid CEOs & managers and sell off several of the very fancy HQs that each national park now have....

That's my rant over!!!
 summo 18 Jul 2017
In reply to sweetpea:

> I do my fair share of volunteer work.... and have no problem getting my hands dirty.... you going to join us the more the merrier??

I used to live near there, perhaps that's how I know who the coordinator is?

OP sweetpea 18 Jul 2017
In reply to summo:

Touche.... point well made
 toad 18 Jul 2017
In reply to sweetpea:

Rights of Way responsibility is a bit of a hodgepodge between landowner and local authority, but in practice local authorities Rights of Way officers are your first port of call to report issues.

But.................................................

As has been said, Countryside and environmental services have been first in line for fairly savage budget cuts, so many jobs have been cut or officers moved to other duties. Rights of way maintenance, if it happens at all, is being primarily undertaken by volunteers or voluntary bodies, so a footpath in a popular area on a site owned by the national trust might be in fantastic condition, a slightly obscure path on land owned by farmer bloggs may be impassable in high summer or have had the stiles quietly fenced across, with no one to hold him accountable.

Ultimately a RoW is part of our highways network, so there should be a statutory obligation to maintain it, but in practice, it's a choice between social care, child services and a walk in the country. Guess which service gets cut first?

The only practical solution is the one Summo suggests. Roll up your sleeves and get stuck in.
 toad 18 Jul 2017
In reply to sweetpea:

The cattle issue is slightly different. changes in agric. policy mean we are seeing cattle grazing in places that used to be grazed with sheep (this is a Good Thing, btw) but this means that people are coming into increasing contact with cattle, and cattle can be more intimidating that sheep. It also means farmers who are also inexperienced with cattle are on occasion grazing inappropriate animals in circumstances where they may cause conflict with people who have a right to be on that path, which causes at best tension, and at worst, serious injury or death. IMO a sign on the gate telling you to drop the lead and leg it is not sufficient, but that's a slightly different thread
Bellie 18 Jul 2017
In reply to sweetpea:

A path that can be cleared at the start of the season, can have plenty of growth on it if its not walked much.

I'm brushcutting at the moment and some areas are elbow high (in less than 4 months), whilst some are clear. The warm wet weather makes everything grow like mad, and so unless there is someone out regularly it will look a bit wild. Bushes encroach on everything and it looks like a jungle. So at this time of year it would be a full time job to make things fit for purpose everywhere.



OP sweetpea 18 Jul 2017
In reply to Bellie:

I fully appreciate everybody's comments on this topic.... Its not a whinge or having a go at anybody - just an observation.

I live in a rural area myself..... so I am fully aware of how quickly the undergrowth gets out of control at this time of the year.... unless maintained.

Some of the paths that I saw there had clearly not been used for years...... although officially marked..... is there a time limit before they no longer exist as paths, and as such are removed as a right of way?
 summo 18 Jul 2017
In reply to sweetpea:

> Some of the paths that I saw there had clearly not been used for years...... although officially marked..... is there a time limit before they no longer exist as paths, and as such are removed as a right of way?

Unless things have changed, no. The law is the other way a around, if a private path (not a public right of way) is used continuously for 7 years then it becomes a public right of way with the maintenance obligations. There is or was a path on the rhinogs that has a sign on its access points stating it was closed on 1 day a year.
Moley 18 Jul 2017
In reply to sweetpea:

With aprox. 140,000 miles of footpaths (or PROW) in England and Wales, the issue of overgrown paths is only going to get worse as we have to accept that public funded maintenance is not going to happen. I don't have a problem with this.

My own personal view is that people who walk and utilise these paths should attempt to put a little effort into maintaining them, at least some of them, but with a few exceptions of most don't.

In my village I think I am the only person who does anything, I keep a few paths clear - I've done one 3 times already this summer but there is no other interest in helping. But strangely few locals use them, mainly residents who have moved from towns to the country, they all either walk on the road circuit or drive to a local forestry and walk their dogs on the forest rides there.
We have mainly walkers visiting on holiday (campsite) and they must get frustrated with the state of paths as I see many have started a walk and then turned back when faced with a wall of undergrowth. A situation of diminishing returns, they less people walk a path the more overgrown it becomes and the more overgrown, the less people walk it.
I hope the next generation don't lose many of our paths through lack of use and I can only encourage everyone to do a little bit sometimes to help. But it is frustrating and your situation is common.
OP sweetpea 18 Jul 2017
In reply to Moley:

Well said.... I agree if everybody played their part it would be far more enjoyable for the masses.

I have previously been involved with restoration of the canal network where we live. This involves cutting back weeds / bushes on the towpaths and also removing the huge amount of litter that people seem to think is acceptable to just dump (out of sight out of mind) and a worrying increase in people throwing dog waste in plastic bags - up into the trees and bushes.... what's all that about??

I think we all to take a bit of pride in our countryside and do our bit.... but this most definitely shouldn't fall onto those who only live there..... its everybody's responsibility.



 Billhook 19 Jul 2017
In reply to summo:

Sorry, but a path has to be used for much, much longer than that for it ever has only get any nearer to becoming a PRW
 Billhook 19 Jul 2017
In reply to sweetpea:

In general outside a NP, the local council has responsibility for repair maintenance of fp furniture etc. In a NP, it is the park's responsibility.
 summo 20 Jul 2017
In reply to Dave Perry:

> Sorry, but a path has to be used for much, much longer than that for it ever has only get any nearer to becoming a PRW

You are correct. Just checked. It's 20 years for forced PRW. Less if all parties agree.
 Bulls Crack 20 Jul 2017
In reply to Dave Perry:

Maintenance of stiles/gates/some bridges etc is actually the landowners responsibility (with £ assistance for replacement available from the highway authority) but in practice tends to get done by the authority - which is just as well
 Oliver Houston 20 Jul 2017
In reply to sweetpea:

In general, I don't agree that paths are required to be fit for purpose, I think public rights of way should be kept accessible, but I don't expect everywhere to be easily accessible. If cows churn up the path and leave it all muddy, then that just adds to the fun. An occasional bit of bushwhacking is the same.

It only annoys me when a path is deliberately blocked off, hidden or made inaccessible by selfishness that it annoys me. I often find myself wandering around fields because a path points directly to one corner, a new fence and no way out. In these instances I'll jump the fence.
 Wingnut 20 Jul 2017
In reply to Oliver Houston:

>>It only annoys me when a path is deliberately blocked off, hidden or made inaccessible by selfishness that it annoys me.

Once came across a ladder stile where the top couple of rungs had been sawn most of the way through and the cuts then camouflaged with mud. Not sure what this was supposed to achieve other than the possibilty of an expensive court case ...

(Then again, one of the local farmers had a reputation for threatening walkers with a shotgun, so quite possibly rationality didn't come into it!)
 johncook 20 Jul 2017
In reply to toad:

> Ultimately a RoW is part of our highways network, so there should be a statutory obligation to maintain it, but in practice, it's a choice between social care, child services and a walk in the country. Guess which service gets cut first?

You missed out high salaries and expenses for management, senior management and chief executives of all departments/NGO's/councils!

1
 Bulls Crack 20 Jul 2017
In reply to johncook:
So you don't think senior council people who usually have a huge amount of corresponding responsibility should get high salaries?

I'll go and tell that to a friend of mine who manages a hard-pressed countryside management section of a local council without the staff or resources to do the job as they would want....
Post edited at 13:37
 pec 20 Jul 2017
In reply to Bulls Crack:

> So you don't think senior council people who usually have a huge amount of corresponding responsibility should get high salaries?

A lot of them are earning similar salaries to cabinet ministers yet have much less responsibility and virtually none of the public or media scrutiny. I don't think that is justifiable when services are being cut.
1
 Bulls Crack 22 Jul 2017
In reply to pec:
Cabinet ministers don't generally have 100's of staff - and they're the ones responsible for the cuts!
Post edited at 21:58
Removed User 22 Jul 2017
In reply to Moley:

Good on you for getting hands on with the undergrowth.

There's an track behind my house. It's a former road which runs for about 3/4 mile uphill. For several years I've picked litter off it 3 times a year. I also keep what drainage channels are left on it open to prevent flooding. At least I get the benefit as I'm running up it most days; I don't have to stare at other peoples rubbish.
 pec 22 Jul 2017
In reply to Bulls Crack:

> Cabinet ministers don't generally have 100's of staff - and they're the ones responsible for the cuts!

They may not directly employ 100's of staff but they are responsible for thousands though, in some cases several hundred thousand and they aren't all responsible for cuts all of the time.
I wasn't making a point about any particular cabinet minister, just in general, whether good bad or indifferent, red or blue, in good times or bad. Lots of virtually anonymous council staff have less responsibility, a fraction of the media scrutiny and none of the public vilification yet earn the same or in many cases more than cabinet ministers.
 Ridge 23 Jul 2017
In reply to Bulls Crack:

> Maintenance of stiles/gates/some bridges etc is actually the landowners responsibility (with £ assistance for replacement available from the highway authority) but in practice tends to get done by the authority - which is just as well

In practice it doesn't get done at all round here.

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