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I'm looking for a shoe for mountain running that'll cope well with scrambling as well as our beloved Scottish wet grass and mud - and everything in between. Obviously there are some huge trade-offs involved here (e.g. tight and stiff for climbing vs looser and flexible for running) but do those of you who run in the mountains have any thoughts? Most of the running shoes I've tried on feel as though they'd be awful for scrambling! Reading around, the shoes I'm thinking about are the Roclites (though which of the many models I'm not sure!) the La Sportiva Bushidos and maybe Saucony Peregrines.
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In reply to Tricadam:
La sportiva Bushidos are the way to go. My friend has them. We walked/jogged the ten Mamore munros last week and he was fine on the rock, wet grass, dry grass, bog, heather and scree. My crappy Salewa approach shoes on the other hand have no grip on damp grass. He has also worn them on the Inn Pinn and Sgurr Na Gilean on Skye. I think i'll get a pair!
La sportiva Bushidos are the way to go. My friend has them. We walked/jogged the ten Mamore munros last week and he was fine on the rock, wet grass, dry grass, bog, heather and scree. My crappy Salewa approach shoes on the other hand have no grip on damp grass. He has also worn them on the Inn Pinn and Sgurr Na Gilean on Skye. I think i'll get a pair!
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In reply to Tricadam:
My Adidas Kanadia TR7s have been great for running and soloed Diff in them, suspect they could do significantly harder if pushed.
My Adidas Kanadia TR7s have been great for running and soloed Diff in them, suspect they could do significantly harder if pushed.
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In reply to Tricadam:
Saucony peregrine aren't particularly great . Bottom of the pile is the mighty Speedcross - great on mud but lethal for scrambling.
Sense ultra are much, much better. Obviously even better are X-alp carbons, but they're a little less good for general trail running
Saucony peregrine aren't particularly great . Bottom of the pile is the mighty Speedcross - great on mud but lethal for scrambling.
Sense ultra are much, much better. Obviously even better are X-alp carbons, but they're a little less good for general trail running
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In reply to Tricadam:
I've got a pair of Sportiva Ultra Raptors that I've used for trail running, spring/summer munro bagging and also as approach shoes for the seacliffs where they've dealt with scrambling approaches just fine. Currently in the sale at Rock and Run if they happen to have your size!
I've got a pair of Sportiva Ultra Raptors that I've used for trail running, spring/summer munro bagging and also as approach shoes for the seacliffs where they've dealt with scrambling approaches just fine. Currently in the sale at Rock and Run if they happen to have your size!
In reply to Tricadam:
Did about 1/3 of the Cuillin Ridge in a pair of Inov8 Trailrocs, including the downclimb into the TD gap and soloing back out, seemed fine - though interested to hear other recommendations.
Did about 1/3 of the Cuillin Ridge in a pair of Inov8 Trailrocs, including the downclimb into the TD gap and soloing back out, seemed fine - though interested to hear other recommendations.
In reply to msp1987:
Good to hear another vote for the Bushidos. Stuart S, I've read good things about the Ultra Raptors and they'd definitely be a contender for me if it weren't for the fairly high heel height: I wear orthotics, so the heel's already pretty high off the ground!
Good to hear another vote for the Bushidos. Stuart S, I've read good things about the Ultra Raptors and they'd definitely be a contender for me if it weren't for the fairly high heel height: I wear orthotics, so the heel's already pretty high off the ground!
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In reply to wbo:
Thanks for clearing that up about the Peregrines. I tried a pair on in a shop the other day and was underwhelmed.
Thanks for clearing that up about the Peregrines. I tried a pair on in a shop the other day and was underwhelmed.
In reply to Dave the Rave:
Dave, do you mean the PB Elites? To be fair, I think that's what Finlay Wild wore for his Cuillin Ridge record, so they can't be bad!
Dave, do you mean the PB Elites? To be fair, I think that's what Finlay Wild wore for his Cuillin Ridge record, so they can't be bad!
In reply to Tricadam:
Something narrow in the forefoot that fits you! Bushidos are probably a reasonable compromise though they don't fit me. Roclites have similar characteristics but they're still v bendy so will feel pretty dreadful imo.
Something narrow in the forefoot that fits you! Bushidos are probably a reasonable compromise though they don't fit me. Roclites have similar characteristics but they're still v bendy so will feel pretty dreadful imo.
In reply to Tricadam:
Yes and indeed.
> Dave, do you mean the PB Elites? To be fair, I think that's what Finlay Wild wore for his Cuillin Ridge record, so they can't be bad!
Yes and indeed.
In reply to Tom Briggs:
Sounds like good advice.
Another shoe I'm considering is the La Sportiva Mutant. Stickier rubber than the Bushido, according to La Sportiva. Anyone have any experience of those in terms of their scrambling abilities or lack thereof?
Sounds like good advice.
Another shoe I'm considering is the La Sportiva Mutant. Stickier rubber than the Bushido, according to La Sportiva. Anyone have any experience of those in terms of their scrambling abilities or lack thereof?
In reply to Tricadam: the peregrine is a good shoe, but absolutely a running shoe, and as such, too soft. For scrambling i prefer a running shoe thats a bit stiffened up. ITS always s compromise
In reply to Tricadam:
The Mutant has a higher heel stack, bigger drop and feels less 'fell' and more like a traditional trail shoe than the Bushido. It has a really high arch. Again, you definitely want to try them as they're quite a technical fit.
Raptors weigh a tonne compared to most shoes nowadays.
The Mutant has a higher heel stack, bigger drop and feels less 'fell' and more like a traditional trail shoe than the Bushido. It has a really high arch. Again, you definitely want to try them as they're quite a technical fit.
Raptors weigh a tonne compared to most shoes nowadays.
In reply to Tricadam:
The mutant is a brilliant shoe to scramble in. I've used them extensively in the lakes, skye and alps including several Diffs. Very good grip but of course, bendy. Much less good on grass and scree. Last a long time too.
The mutant is a brilliant shoe to scramble in. I've used them extensively in the lakes, skye and alps including several Diffs. Very good grip but of course, bendy. Much less good on grass and scree. Last a long time too.
In reply to Tricadam:
Good question, and now realise I need yet another sub-niche shoe! I normally wear X-Talons in the mountains and they've been fine on Crib Goch etc. I do remember getting off route a little above Sharp Edge on some greasy slabs. Had a bit of a moment when I just felt like I was on floppy, greasy stilts. A bit more stiffness, bit more rubber contact would seem to be thing - bit less fell shoe I guess.
Good question, and now realise I need yet another sub-niche shoe! I normally wear X-Talons in the mountains and they've been fine on Crib Goch etc. I do remember getting off route a little above Sharp Edge on some greasy slabs. Had a bit of a moment when I just felt like I was on floppy, greasy stilts. A bit more stiffness, bit more rubber contact would seem to be thing - bit less fell shoe I guess.
In reply to Tricadam:
I have Roclite 295's and they're surprisingly good on rock and on loose stuff (compared to a variety of approach shoes that I use on scrambles). They're not at all any good if the rock is wet or damp.
Have you seen the Arcteryx Norvan XT shoes? They have an adjustment feature, to tighten them up on scrambles. I've not tried them myself, but they caught my eye.
https://arcteryx.com/product.aspx?country=gb&language=en&gender=men...
I have Roclite 295's and they're surprisingly good on rock and on loose stuff (compared to a variety of approach shoes that I use on scrambles). They're not at all any good if the rock is wet or damp.
Have you seen the Arcteryx Norvan XT shoes? They have an adjustment feature, to tighten them up on scrambles. I've not tried them myself, but they caught my eye.
https://arcteryx.com/product.aspx?country=gb&language=en&gender=men...
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In reply to Tricadam:
I'm not sure how true it is, but sure I've read that the same shoe can have different level of grippiness depending on the colour of the outsole. Black outsoles have no ( or possibly a lot less ) colouring, and are supposedly stickier than the same rubber compound when it is made coloured, ie the dye used decreases the level of grip
So, the Roclites mentioned above ( older ones, not necessarily the latest incarnation ) I had the 295 in a bright yellow/lime coloured outsole, and seemed less sure on wet rock than the 315 that had a black sole.
Anyone else found this, or know if there's any truth in it ?
I'm not sure how true it is, but sure I've read that the same shoe can have different level of grippiness depending on the colour of the outsole. Black outsoles have no ( or possibly a lot less ) colouring, and are supposedly stickier than the same rubber compound when it is made coloured, ie the dye used decreases the level of grip
So, the Roclites mentioned above ( older ones, not necessarily the latest incarnation ) I had the 295 in a bright yellow/lime coloured outsole, and seemed less sure on wet rock than the 315 that had a black sole.
Anyone else found this, or know if there's any truth in it ?
In reply to planetmarshall:
Out of interest, what happened re the latter 2/3 of the Ridge? I'm assuming you didn't do it in a different pair of shoes, but I may have assumed wrongly!
> Did about 1/3 of the Cuillin Ridge in a pair of Inov8 Trailrocs, including the downclimb into the TD gap and soloing back out, seemed fine - though interested to hear other recommendations.
Out of interest, what happened re the latter 2/3 of the Ridge? I'm assuming you didn't do it in a different pair of shoes, but I may have assumed wrongly!
In reply to wbo:
Yes, that's the challenge in trying to square this circle: soft will always be better for running and stiff better for climbing. Having said that, I ran most of the way down Blaven the other day in my B2s, so maybe I should just stick to those!
> the peregrine is a good shoe, but absolutely a running shoe, and as such, too soft. For scrambling i prefer a running shoe thats a bit stiffened up. ITS always s compromise
Yes, that's the challenge in trying to square this circle: soft will always be better for running and stiff better for climbing. Having said that, I ran most of the way down Blaven the other day in my B2s, so maybe I should just stick to those!
In reply to grump gnome:
Yes, the Raptors seem to come up a lot. I guess my main reservations are firstly with the heel height (adding in my orthotics) and with what looks not to be the best tread pattern for dealing with grass and mud, which these shoes will need to deal with a fair bit of! They're also heavier than most, and will get heavier still once they've soaked up a dose of highland bog water. Raptor owners, any thoughts on the above? How do they compare with other shoes you've run in?
> LaSportiva Raptors.
Yes, the Raptors seem to come up a lot. I guess my main reservations are firstly with the heel height (adding in my orthotics) and with what looks not to be the best tread pattern for dealing with grass and mud, which these shoes will need to deal with a fair bit of! They're also heavier than most, and will get heavier still once they've soaked up a dose of highland bog water. Raptor owners, any thoughts on the above? How do they compare with other shoes you've run in?
In reply to afx22:
Amazing how quickly they got that shoe to market in response to my post! I think I'm going to have to try a pair!
> Have you seen the Arcteryx Norvan XT shoes? They have an adjustment feature, to tighten them up on scrambles. I've not tried them myself, but they caught my eye.
Amazing how quickly they got that shoe to market in response to my post! I think I'm going to have to try a pair!
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In reply to Tricadam:
Evening, I'm a fellrunner who likes scrambling.
The best shoes ive tried are walsh PB in terms of pure grip, the rubber grips grass, mud, wet and dry rock fantastically. Sadly the rubber also wears fantastically on rock tho this may be why theres so much friction. Theyre really light too and precise, the closest ive felt to rock shoes i. Somethig you can run in.
I can scramble pretty well in innov8 x talons too tho they roll on the soft edges and wear fast too...mudclaws arent bad either asa re rocklites tho all a bit squirmy compared to the PBs.
Ive also got some norvan vt....theyre about the best all rounder ive tried. I literally have used them every day since getting them for everything from short fast hill runs to long rough runs, scrambles and around town...i even have them on just now.
Theyre super comfy, fairly light, grippy on rock and not bad on grass tho the flatter lugs arent as grippy as an x talon, PB or mudclaw. That said they wear much more slowly...two months of wear including road runs and a lot of scrambling (every two days or so) and the sole is almost like new...only problem ive had is the mesh uppers wore through where the soft mesh and tpu overlay meet...im on pair two now so hopefully i was unlucky or they can sort the flaw for the next version....theyre really comfy too.
Lacing thing works too to get them really scrambling ready tho ive not used it often as theyre pretty capable in regular mode.
Theyre also fairly low so orthotics should be ok...i think.
Hope this helps and thanks again for delivering my daughter...shes just enjoyed a trip to val di mello where the norvans also carried 16kgs of toddler and carrier with no complaints!
Evening, I'm a fellrunner who likes scrambling.
The best shoes ive tried are walsh PB in terms of pure grip, the rubber grips grass, mud, wet and dry rock fantastically. Sadly the rubber also wears fantastically on rock tho this may be why theres so much friction. Theyre really light too and precise, the closest ive felt to rock shoes i. Somethig you can run in.
I can scramble pretty well in innov8 x talons too tho they roll on the soft edges and wear fast too...mudclaws arent bad either asa re rocklites tho all a bit squirmy compared to the PBs.
Ive also got some norvan vt....theyre about the best all rounder ive tried. I literally have used them every day since getting them for everything from short fast hill runs to long rough runs, scrambles and around town...i even have them on just now.
Theyre super comfy, fairly light, grippy on rock and not bad on grass tho the flatter lugs arent as grippy as an x talon, PB or mudclaw. That said they wear much more slowly...two months of wear including road runs and a lot of scrambling (every two days or so) and the sole is almost like new...only problem ive had is the mesh uppers wore through where the soft mesh and tpu overlay meet...im on pair two now so hopefully i was unlucky or they can sort the flaw for the next version....theyre really comfy too.
Lacing thing works too to get them really scrambling ready tho ive not used it often as theyre pretty capable in regular mode.
Theyre also fairly low so orthotics should be ok...i think.
Hope this helps and thanks again for delivering my daughter...shes just enjoyed a trip to val di mello where the norvans also carried 16kgs of toddler and carrier with no complaints!
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In reply to Pipecleaner:
You're most welcome! And thanks for the info on the Norvan VTs. I had actually just read your review of them on another UKC thread. Glad to hear they're still doing the business. Definitely need to try them. Likewise the legendary Walshes. The list grows ever longer!
You're most welcome! And thanks for the info on the Norvan VTs. I had actually just read your review of them on another UKC thread. Glad to hear they're still doing the business. Definitely need to try them. Likewise the legendary Walshes. The list grows ever longer!
In reply to Tricadam:
The walshes are great tho pretty minimal. Very little protection or real cusioning tho this makes them great for precision and smaller edges.
The arcteryx shoes are way more comfortable with great grip and much more protection.
Theres no magic solution tho, like most things in life theres always a compromise. A pair of walshes and a pair of norvan would cover most eventualities however!
If you happen to take a size 44 and want to try a pair of norvans let me know...sadly the walshes are used beyond repair...
The walshes are great tho pretty minimal. Very little protection or real cusioning tho this makes them great for precision and smaller edges.
The arcteryx shoes are way more comfortable with great grip and much more protection.
Theres no magic solution tho, like most things in life theres always a compromise. A pair of walshes and a pair of norvan would cover most eventualities however!
If you happen to take a size 44 and want to try a pair of norvans let me know...sadly the walshes are used beyond repair...
In reply to Tricadam:
I was tired, and went home.
> Out of interest, what happened re the latter 2/3 of the Ridge? I'm assuming you didn't do it in a different pair of shoes, but I may have assumed wrongly!
I was tired, and went home.
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In reply to Pipecleaner:
Thanks for the offer - but your review and others I've read convinced me enough last night to order a couple of sizes in the post! Will try some Walshes too. As you say, horses for courses!
Thanks for the offer - but your review and others I've read convinced me enough last night to order a couple of sizes in the post! Will try some Walshes too. As you say, horses for courses!
In reply to planetmarshall:
Can well imagine! I've not done it but reckon it would be much more enjoyable to do it at a reasonably leisurely pace over two days, soaking in the views and taking lots of photos.
> I was tired, and went home.
Can well imagine! I've not done it but reckon it would be much more enjoyable to do it at a reasonably leisurely pace over two days, soaking in the views and taking lots of photos.
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In reply to steveriley:
I've just bought some replacement xtalons and I think they are terrible on wet rock. I don't remember the old ones being so bad, maybe the tread needs to wear down a bit, possibly they've changed the rubber compound!
> I normally wear X-Talons in the mountains and they've been fine on Crib Goch etc. I do remember getting off route a little above Sharp Edge on some greasy slabs. Had a bit of a moment when I just felt like I was on floppy, greasy stilts.
I've just bought some replacement xtalons and I think they are terrible on wet rock. I don't remember the old ones being so bad, maybe the tread needs to wear down a bit, possibly they've changed the rubber compound!
In reply to Tricadam:
I've covered just over 250 miles in my Raptors since April. I needed a shoe that offered a lot of cushion but also stability.
For the most part I've been very impressed, they're comfortable on long runs, don't rub and don't feel to chunky.
The very slight issue I have is they have now split at the toe mesh, an easy enough glue fix. This happened on the walk to the Mischabel Hut last week. It's a rough trail followed by a via ferrata aided scramble so I guess some wear is to be expected. The shoes coped well and gave plenty of confidence. I reckon my speedcross would have been in worse condition on the same route.
I've covered just over 250 miles in my Raptors since April. I needed a shoe that offered a lot of cushion but also stability.
For the most part I've been very impressed, they're comfortable on long runs, don't rub and don't feel to chunky.
The very slight issue I have is they have now split at the toe mesh, an easy enough glue fix. This happened on the walk to the Mischabel Hut last week. It's a rough trail followed by a via ferrata aided scramble so I guess some wear is to be expected. The shoes coped well and gave plenty of confidence. I reckon my speedcross would have been in worse condition on the same route.
In reply to Tricadam:
Hope you like them....and the walshes if you get a pair of them too.
The walshes wear very fast on rock tho they're far better once the studs have worn down just a bit. The laces are terrible and seem to break really fast for me but they're super light and really out do anything else in terms of performance.
What sort of mountain running have you got in mind just out of interest?
Hope you like them....and the walshes if you get a pair of them too.
The walshes wear very fast on rock tho they're far better once the studs have worn down just a bit. The laces are terrible and seem to break really fast for me but they're super light and really out do anything else in terms of performance.
What sort of mountain running have you got in mind just out of interest?
Surprised they haven't been mentioned yet but I find the scarpa atom a pretty good compromise.
Great lightweight running shoe with a minimally (6mm) lugged vibram sole. Just got back from north wales where they spent all their time in crib goch and around tryfan, comfortably up to diff.
Bit garish though!
Great lightweight running shoe with a minimally (6mm) lugged vibram sole. Just got back from north wales where they spent all their time in crib goch and around tryfan, comfortably up to diff.
Bit garish though!
In reply to Bobmoz:
How do the outer lugs fare with scrambles? They look like a cross between a lasportiva croslite sole and salomon speedcross....sturdy enough lugs to torque on the sole and tear the lugs rather than deform and slip like a speedcross ( not that this is any good for scrambles either!)
Never tried any tho so maybe i have the wrong idea and they take a beating really well! I really like the idea of the outdry winter version tho its about double the price!
How do the outer lugs fare with scrambles? They look like a cross between a lasportiva croslite sole and salomon speedcross....sturdy enough lugs to torque on the sole and tear the lugs rather than deform and slip like a speedcross ( not that this is any good for scrambles either!)
Never tried any tho so maybe i have the wrong idea and they take a beating really well! I really like the idea of the outdry winter version tho its about double the price!
In reply to Jim Hamilton:
To be fair, most things are terrible on wet rock
I've not noticed a difference between rubbers - third pair now. They do probably have a bit of 'shop finish' when they're brand new and the stilt effect is less obvious when they're worn in a bit. Good shoe though.
> I've just bought some replacement xtalons and I think they are terrible on wet rock. I don't remember the old ones being so bad, maybe the tread needs to wear down a bit, possibly they've changed the rubber compound!
To be fair, most things are terrible on wet rock
I've not noticed a difference between rubbers - third pair now. They do probably have a bit of 'shop finish' when they're brand new and the stilt effect is less obvious when they're worn in a bit. Good shoe though.
In reply to Pipecleaner:
They seem to hold up well to the abuse. Lugs are quite broad, so don't distort under torque, which is why they feel pretty good on steep stuff. Being a low profile sole too, there isn't much foam to squash and distort either. Plenty of room in the toe box but a fairly snug feeling, so it doesn't feel too bad when you put a lot of pressure on it.
I've put around 200 miles on mine and a lot of steep rock, they are holding up pretty well, I'll definitely buy another pair
Rock and run had them on offer for £59 too!
They seem to hold up well to the abuse. Lugs are quite broad, so don't distort under torque, which is why they feel pretty good on steep stuff. Being a low profile sole too, there isn't much foam to squash and distort either. Plenty of room in the toe box but a fairly snug feeling, so it doesn't feel too bad when you put a lot of pressure on it.
I've put around 200 miles on mine and a lot of steep rock, they are holding up pretty well, I'll definitely buy another pair
Rock and run had them on offer for £59 too!
Post edited at 17:22
In reply to Bobmoz:
Good to know, ive often looked at getting some but never got round to it! I did see them ln offer tho i just 'had' to buy a new pair of climbing shoes that were on sale!
Good to know, ive often looked at getting some but never got round to it! I did see them ln offer tho i just 'had' to buy a new pair of climbing shoes that were on sale!
In reply to Pipecleaner:
Probably a variety of things! I've just started over the last couple of months, having done plenty of hillwalking but never having run more than 3 miles in my life - and that was on the flat many years ago! So far I've enjoyed near-Glasgow trail and hill runs as well as Munro traverses. Beinn a'Bhuird and Ben Avon last Saturday in 40-50mph rain was great! Being able to do something substantial in the hills of a weekday evening is a real game-changer. But so is the prospect of longer traverses up in the Highlands. And it would be great to be able to get some scrambling into those too.
> What sort of mountain running have you got in mind just out of interest?
Probably a variety of things! I've just started over the last couple of months, having done plenty of hillwalking but never having run more than 3 miles in my life - and that was on the flat many years ago! So far I've enjoyed near-Glasgow trail and hill runs as well as Munro traverses. Beinn a'Bhuird and Ben Avon last Saturday in 40-50mph rain was great! Being able to do something substantial in the hills of a weekday evening is a real game-changer. But so is the prospect of longer traverses up in the Highlands. And it would be great to be able to get some scrambling into those too.
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In reply to Tricadam:
Great stuff. As a hillwalker and fellrunner i really appreciate walking and running. I like the pure physical challenge of pushing your body running and the ability to cover ground much quicker than walking even at a jog.
Ive had some great days cvering a fair bit of ground running and walking. The glencoe round of munros was particularly good with lovely scrambling along aonach eagach absolutely trashed!
Similarly the mamores as a single push jogging and walking was great too...tho my knees didnt think so.
You will probably now become even more weight obsessed tho in the pursuit of that perfect hill day set up so watch out...
Great stuff. As a hillwalker and fellrunner i really appreciate walking and running. I like the pure physical challenge of pushing your body running and the ability to cover ground much quicker than walking even at a jog.
Ive had some great days cvering a fair bit of ground running and walking. The glencoe round of munros was particularly good with lovely scrambling along aonach eagach absolutely trashed!
Similarly the mamores as a single push jogging and walking was great too...tho my knees didnt think so.
You will probably now become even more weight obsessed tho in the pursuit of that perfect hill day set up so watch out...
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In reply to Pipecleaner:
Haha, yeah, I've managed not to spend much on new kit since starting the running. Got a great wee Inov-8 Race Pro 12 litre sack off eBay. And of course now there's these shoes. And, having initially laughed at the Carron Valley Trail Runners' Garmin watches, I've decided that the huge range of uses (and, let's face it, geek-out potential) justify an eBay purchase.
Do you ever run with tent or bivvy kit? I've got a pretty lightweight set-up so might consider it - given an appropriate pack to put it in. Makes a huge difference having a proper running one that doesn't bounce up and down with every step! (Having said that, a pal and I did run most of the way down the Ben after NE Buttress last March in B3s and winter sacks so he didn't miss his bus!)
Haha, yeah, I've managed not to spend much on new kit since starting the running. Got a great wee Inov-8 Race Pro 12 litre sack off eBay. And of course now there's these shoes. And, having initially laughed at the Carron Valley Trail Runners' Garmin watches, I've decided that the huge range of uses (and, let's face it, geek-out potential) justify an eBay purchase.
Do you ever run with tent or bivvy kit? I've got a pretty lightweight set-up so might consider it - given an appropriate pack to put it in. Makes a huge difference having a proper running one that doesn't bounce up and down with every step! (Having said that, a pal and I did run most of the way down the Ben after NE Buttress last March in B3s and winter sacks so he didn't miss his bus!)
In reply to Tricadam:
Agreed, theres always something else you think you might need!
Ive ran with really light bivvy stuff...Race vest carrying a dry long sleeve merino top, nuclei sl jacket, montane prism, trousers, a few bars, water in the two 500ml softflasks, gloves, buff, torch, race waterproofs and alpkit hunka bivvy bag on elastic outside. The race pack is an ultimate direction AK 3.0...its 11 litres but the insulater jacket and trousers pretty much fill the main compartment. Very runnable like this tho thats about all you can carry...no flask or stove. Fortunately i like a bit of suffering!
Running with more it would be a proper sack...ive got an ascentionist 35 and talon 33 the talon is far better for running and has way more storage with all the stretchy pockets. Ascentionist is great for simplicity and runs pretty well with a bit of kit.
As for running off hills with boots etc as long as theres snow i can run in most boots no matter how stiff...no snow and B2 or B3 boots usually gets a bit sore.
As a fellrunner im used to running with a waist bag tho a vest style is much more comfy scrambling as your waist is free and they dont bounce as much when full. The vest also covers very little of my back so much less hot than a small rucksack.
As for garmins etc ill leave that to someone else! I usually strava stuff on my phone tho more as a curiosity for keeping a rough note of vert ascent...note that the baby has seriously dented it over the last year and a half!!!
Agreed, theres always something else you think you might need!
Ive ran with really light bivvy stuff...Race vest carrying a dry long sleeve merino top, nuclei sl jacket, montane prism, trousers, a few bars, water in the two 500ml softflasks, gloves, buff, torch, race waterproofs and alpkit hunka bivvy bag on elastic outside. The race pack is an ultimate direction AK 3.0...its 11 litres but the insulater jacket and trousers pretty much fill the main compartment. Very runnable like this tho thats about all you can carry...no flask or stove. Fortunately i like a bit of suffering!
Running with more it would be a proper sack...ive got an ascentionist 35 and talon 33 the talon is far better for running and has way more storage with all the stretchy pockets. Ascentionist is great for simplicity and runs pretty well with a bit of kit.
As for running off hills with boots etc as long as theres snow i can run in most boots no matter how stiff...no snow and B2 or B3 boots usually gets a bit sore.
As a fellrunner im used to running with a waist bag tho a vest style is much more comfy scrambling as your waist is free and they dont bounce as much when full. The vest also covers very little of my back so much less hot than a small rucksack.
As for garmins etc ill leave that to someone else! I usually strava stuff on my phone tho more as a curiosity for keeping a rough note of vert ascent...note that the baby has seriously dented it over the last year and a half!!!
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In reply to Pipecleaner:
Haha, can imagine! Thanks for the tips. I'm a big fan of the Ascensionist series. Have the 25 for multipitch rock and hillwalking, the 35 for winter climbing and the 45 for overnights. I find the 25 is too big and bounces around too much for running, hence the wee Inov-8. Hoping to put it to use on Saturday on a tour of the Great Moss from Glen Feshie! Likewise the Norvan VTs which arrived today and fit perfectly in the 44. Loadsa room with the foot box unhitched, and nice and snug with it done up. Impressive! Just been for a quick run in Pollock Park and they feel great. Good bit of energy return too. On first glance, the only thing I'd change would be to make the lugs deeper. Do you find that they're noticeably less good than the likes of the Walshes when it comes to mud?
Haha, can imagine! Thanks for the tips. I'm a big fan of the Ascensionist series. Have the 25 for multipitch rock and hillwalking, the 35 for winter climbing and the 45 for overnights. I find the 25 is too big and bounces around too much for running, hence the wee Inov-8. Hoping to put it to use on Saturday on a tour of the Great Moss from Glen Feshie! Likewise the Norvan VTs which arrived today and fit perfectly in the 44. Loadsa room with the foot box unhitched, and nice and snug with it done up. Impressive! Just been for a quick run in Pollock Park and they feel great. Good bit of energy return too. On first glance, the only thing I'd change would be to make the lugs deeper. Do you find that they're noticeably less good than the likes of the Walshes when it comes to mud?
In reply to Tricadam:
I now have rucksack envy!
Yes, the norvans are way less grippy than walshes in mud but are far more versatile.
The flatter lugs also wear really slowly and theres very little squirm in them unlike some other shoes. My first pair after six weeks daily use with runs upto 19 miles with tarmac and rocks showed virtually no wear...i could have been through two pairs of walshes in that time.
The norvans are a fantastic shoe for scrambling that happens to be really capable for running.
The walshes are fantastic fell shoes that happen to be great scramblers.
The only thing i havent noticed is the front section of idro grip rubber being noticeably better than the megagrip rear...or megagrip soles on other shoes that i have. More importantly what colour did you go for? Mine are a sombre grey since all my other shoes are orange, red or tennis ball yellow!
I now have rucksack envy!
Yes, the norvans are way less grippy than walshes in mud but are far more versatile.
The flatter lugs also wear really slowly and theres very little squirm in them unlike some other shoes. My first pair after six weeks daily use with runs upto 19 miles with tarmac and rocks showed virtually no wear...i could have been through two pairs of walshes in that time.
The norvans are a fantastic shoe for scrambling that happens to be really capable for running.
The walshes are fantastic fell shoes that happen to be great scramblers.
The only thing i havent noticed is the front section of idro grip rubber being noticeably better than the megagrip rear...or megagrip soles on other shoes that i have. More importantly what colour did you go for? Mine are a sombre grey since all my other shoes are orange, red or tennis ball yellow!
Post edited at 00:35
In reply to Pipecleaner:
Mine are grey too, albeit with red trim. Not so much a choice as what was available at the cheapest price in that size! Was hoping the blue 9.5 were going to be a better fit for the colour, but no such luck! I've been looking at the La Sportiva Mutants too as another hard-wearing all-rounder but more mud/grass-oriented for runs that feature more of that. They fit really well - and are colourful in the blue/red! Between those two, I ought to have most eventualities covered. Now just need to get better at the actual running!
Mine are grey too, albeit with red trim. Not so much a choice as what was available at the cheapest price in that size! Was hoping the blue 9.5 were going to be a better fit for the colour, but no such luck! I've been looking at the La Sportiva Mutants too as another hard-wearing all-rounder but more mud/grass-oriented for runs that feature more of that. They fit really well - and are colourful in the blue/red! Between those two, I ought to have most eventualities covered. Now just need to get better at the actual running!
In reply to Tricadam:
Well they all end up brown eventually.
Not tried the mutants as la sportivas tend not to fit me too well...they seem to be fairly good however, from what i hear.
Like most things the more you do it the easier it gets...tho id recommend finding a good physio!
Running uphill seems to not be everyones favourite and running down well is an acquired skill. It's almost as satisfying as figuring out a climbing sequence when you can run down something technical and feel in control...
Once you get really good at descending the tread becomes far less important if you can keep the forces acting on you fairly constant theres much less slippage, a bit like driving well in snow or mountain biking in mud. Its only when you try to turn or slow that you slide...takes a bit of confidence and practice tho. My fastest descent of my local hill was in heavy rain with loads of mud...confidence was high tho.
Happy running!
Well they all end up brown eventually.
Not tried the mutants as la sportivas tend not to fit me too well...they seem to be fairly good however, from what i hear.
Like most things the more you do it the easier it gets...tho id recommend finding a good physio!
Running uphill seems to not be everyones favourite and running down well is an acquired skill. It's almost as satisfying as figuring out a climbing sequence when you can run down something technical and feel in control...
Once you get really good at descending the tread becomes far less important if you can keep the forces acting on you fairly constant theres much less slippage, a bit like driving well in snow or mountain biking in mud. Its only when you try to turn or slow that you slide...takes a bit of confidence and practice tho. My fastest descent of my local hill was in heavy rain with loads of mud...confidence was high tho.
Happy running!
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