UKC

Or is he simply working within 'the medical guidelines'....Good Lord.

Not sure i'm interested in cycling and the TDF anymore..... or have they always cheated since the beginning? Stupid question really, they are humans....

In reply to The Ice Doctor:


Surely that is 'clean'? If it's not in your eyes, what do you define as 'clean'?

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

If you look at the average speed of the tour since it began it's quite obvious where the whole Lance Armstrong/entire peloton got caught and it drops away (obviously route variations have an effect on this too) but I would suggest that cycling is now far more clean than nearly any other professional sport about these days because of the stigma and spotlight. I don't think doping in the same way is really possible for them anymore so at the most cynical view they could be pushing the rules to the limit, but that is for the people in charge to dictate. The reason it was rife before was poor management and bribery, I can't see that happening now but I could be proved wrong

In reply to Lifeismeaningless:

Would agree, they looked at vo2 max and body weight, plus power output and in that era they went off the scale, to a degree that wasn't seen in any of Olympic track athletes etc..

The tdf might not be clean, but they are legal.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Is Froome clean ? what prompted you to ask ? He's clearly only on a par with half a dozen riders this year so why do you ask about Froome ?

In reply to GrahamD:

The unit of measurement used today is the Landa.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:
I'm sure they are all riding clean or as clean as they can without infringing the rules. That Bertie and Nairo are no longer a serious threat tells me they are also riding clean; I'm amazed Bertie never got caught because some of his performances really were "incredible" as the sports commentators say.

Edit: I'm amazed that Bertie only got caught once.

With regard to Wiggo and that TUE envelope, my cycling buddy is a lifelong medical friend of the BC and Sky doctor and his opinion is strongly that there was actually nothing untoward going on; the doctor in question is an incompetent administrator and his record-keeping a nightmare. My buddy believes the entire episode is nothing more than an almighty cockup, to which nobody wants to admit as incompetence is almost as embarrassing to Sky and BC as drug abuse.

In reply to Rigid Raider:

Oh well then, that's it in. Murdoch's riders are clean. UKAD need to have a quick chat with your buddy

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Probably a lot 'cleaner' than you are.
No, I don't know anything about you, but if we're going to speculate on the basis of no data...
Perhaps you should reread the first line of your profile?

In reply to Rigid Raider:

Bertie did get caught - possibly only because of a tip off from Bruyneel led to his sample being sent to the only lab in the world that could detect such low levels of the drug Bryneel knew he was using.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Whoever wins is naturally a suspect seems to be your line. I would have thought the closeness of the race this year is a pretty good sign.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:



Jesus!
I know you're upset about BREXIT but why let it colour your outlook on everything.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:
I also believe Sky operate within the rules. I am disappointed though that they held themselves out as operating on a higher, more moral plane, but have turned out (I think) to have feet of clay.

In any sport these days. that has people trying to make a living from it, it will have teams and individuals that operate at the edge of the limits of the rules.

I gather that the Operation Puerto investigation identified stars from Tennis and football, but that it was only the cyclists that were thrown to the dogs, for example.

In reply to blurty:

Agreed on pretty much all points.
Money corrupts.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

They're all on the gas.

In reply to blurty:

Agree, when you think Contador can almost bankrupt the drugs agencies of cycling with appeals can you imagine trying to go after Real Madrid or Manchester United.
I remember Contador and Rassmussann racing off up mountains eye balling each other and constantly attacking. I also then remember after things tightened up that guy blasting off from the peloton smiling on the Aspan and everyone watching looked at each other and said, doping. Next day caught for new epo use and later nearly killed himself injecting blood.
Definitely cleaner just by the way they ride now and that they collapse off their bikes after mtn top finishes now.

Cheers

Toby

In reply to Rigid Raider:

And it is constantly stoked up by The Times reporters looking for another Lance when it's not there That papers reporting of Team Sky and Brailsford is really pissing me off

In reply to rocksol:


Well Sky brought that one on themselves and they aren't getting any relief from Wiggins either.

In reply to GrahamD:

I agree but I think it was incompetence or lack of foresight about implications for actions rather than subterfuge . A few times in my business life I've failed to record things I should have ending up costing me money where it's been my word against someone else with nothing recorded on either side

In reply to Rigid Raider:

The jiffy bag issue was brought to light by Sutton to discredit the Dr due to internal politics an in fighting.

In reply to rocksol:

The Jiffy bag thing is only have the story though. There is also the dodgy TUEs.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Is Froome 'clean'?

Well I hope he is, because the podium girls must be getting really pissed off by now from smelling his armpits.

Even if they are stretching the rules of what's allowable, it never fails to amaze me at how extraordinarily fit these guys are to do what they do, day after day. I'm knackered after 5 laps of Chorlton Water Park.

In reply to rocksol:


Rather depends on whether the story of what was in the bag is plausible. All the stuff about poor record keeping and the nonsense with Emma Pooley is a distraction from finding out what Wiggins was taking (or conversely clearing the air) .

In reply to Lusk:


The speed with which they hustle the day's winners to the presentations surely doesn't permit time for a scrub-down - that's probably why they have different women for each award, to limit their exposure

In reply to nufkin:

To be fair, you don't smell much straight off the bike.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

As the Rules are there to be tested to the limit, winner takes cash. My guess is it's all a f**king joke , Millar blew the lid on it all. Wonder boy Wiggins wasn't even clean. Neither is Froome. Clean meets 'zero' . Muppets perhaps don't accept this.

Have a nice day.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Fair enough. I'm not sure why you started the thread though, seems like a convoluted way of calling people muppets.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

As you say, your guess.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

A strange post!

In reply to Yanis Nayu:
Nah,

I like to put something out for discussion and then, ignoring all of the points made, bellow my own opinion in everyone's faces.



The fact I agree with Mr Ice Dr is by the by.

In reply to Yanis Nayu:


A strange poster!!

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

If I remeber correctly C F had TUE's until he could try to discredit Wiggo by claiming to be whiter than white.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Are you saying Wiggo taking TUE's is tracking the rules ?

In reply to Yanis Nayu:


A strange poster!

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Bizzare, why not question, Landa, Bardet, are, Martin, Uran etc etc.

If you are not sure you are interested in cycling any more why are you concerned ?

You only have to watch a race from 15 years ago against the Galibier stage this year to see there is more clean riders now that not, people still test positive but it's massively cleaner than it ever was, that's a good thing.

Now tennis, rugby, football and a few other sports need to get on the bandwagon and do the same.

In reply to The New NickB:


That's polite of you.

In reply to The Ice Doctor:

Yes he is, far cleaner than you. Pay attention and learn

In reply to Lifeismeaningless:


if you take out 2005 (41.65), the average speed has been hovering around 40kph since about 2000
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_de_France_records_and_statistics#/media/...
average so far in this tour is 41kph...

and Col d'Izoard times:
2000 (Armstrong-Pantani etc): 41:40 (av. 20.3kph)
2017 (Barguil): 38:15! (av. 22.1kph)
http://www.climbing-records.com/

In reply to malk:

As I'm sure you know, the 2017 stage finished at the Col the 2000 stage in Briancon.

In reply to malk:

I wonder about doping in amateur cycling. I raced as a 4th cat and then 3rd cat in 2006/7 and every race averaged 25mph. I returned to it this year and the slowest has been 26, the fastest 27.3. I know we're in an era of power meters, coaches etc, but it's quite a big difference.

Or maybe my 2006 speedo was out.

In reply to Mike Highbury:


but that doesn't fit in with his agenda .

In reply to Yanis Nayu:

Rounder wheels, surely?