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I'm going Kwiatkowski. Amazing domestique. Imagine having him on your side.
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In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
He was great. The crop of young French lads seem both highly talented and very unassuming and polite.
He was great. The crop of young French lads seem both highly talented and very unassuming and polite.
In reply to Yanis Nayu:
Warren Barguil for me as well. He was quality all the way through the Tour and won the iconic mountain stage on the Col D'Izoard and the Bastille day stage as well as winning the most combative rider award for the Tour ( De Gent no doubt a little surprised by that). A strong contender for a future GC title.
Warren Barguil for me as well. He was quality all the way through the Tour and won the iconic mountain stage on the Col D'Izoard and the Bastille day stage as well as winning the most combative rider award for the Tour ( De Gent no doubt a little surprised by that). A strong contender for a future GC title.
Post edited at 15:05
In reply to Yanis Nayu:
Chris Froome as he won, by definition is the rider of the tour as he got round in the quickest all round time.
Chris Froome as he won, by definition is the rider of the tour as he got round in the quickest all round time.
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In reply to Removed UserStuart en Écosse:
Not really into his whiny "I could win the tour too if I was team leader" attitude. Shame, seems a strong rider but if he can't shake that sort of attitude it's often career suicide.
Not really into his whiny "I could win the tour too if I was team leader" attitude. Shame, seems a strong rider but if he can't shake that sort of attitude it's often career suicide.
In reply to Gone for good:
A contender perhaps, but if he'd been contending for GC this year then he probably wouldn't have been allowed to go off and win those stages. And hence wouldn't have been such an obvious contender - the classic stage race paradox. Also note that when they let him go he built up a big gap, but once the GC racers put their foot down, that gap plummeted. Would have been able to follow them? Who knows - but it would be great to find out next year!
> Warren Barguil for me as well. He was quality all the way through the Tour and won the iconic mountain stage on the Col D'Izoard and the Bastille day stage as well as winning the most combative rider award for the Tour ( De Gent no doubt a little surprised by that). A strong contender for a future GC title.
A contender perhaps, but if he'd been contending for GC this year then he probably wouldn't have been allowed to go off and win those stages. And hence wouldn't have been such an obvious contender - the classic stage race paradox. Also note that when they let him go he built up a big gap, but once the GC racers put their foot down, that gap plummeted. Would have been able to follow them? Who knows - but it would be great to find out next year!
In reply to Yanis Nayu:
Plus 1 for Kwiatkowski. he absolutely buried himself on the big climbs for Froome, amazing pace setting
Plus 1 for Kwiatkowski. he absolutely buried himself on the big climbs for Froome, amazing pace setting
In reply to tcashmore:
Who spent 95% of the tour drafting. He wouldn't have been on the podium without that team.
Warren Barguil for me.
> Chris Froome as he won, by definition is the rider of the tour as he got round in the quickest all round time.
Who spent 95% of the tour drafting. He wouldn't have been on the podium without that team.
Warren Barguil for me.
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In reply to Lusk:
You watch the whole tour but still don't seem to understand bike racing. Weird.
You watch the whole tour but still don't seem to understand bike racing. Weird.
Post edited at 21:07
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In reply to dilatory:
I have only come to understand the way the Tour works and I can't think of another sport where the same dynamics apply - a chosen contender is supported by a team to beat several other contenders supported by their teams. It makes for fascinating competition but not easy to comprehend at first sight.
I have only come to understand the way the Tour works and I can't think of another sport where the same dynamics apply - a chosen contender is supported by a team to beat several other contenders supported by their teams. It makes for fascinating competition but not easy to comprehend at first sight.
In reply to Yanis Nayu:
Well this has been a fascinating tour thanks to the loss of a couple of long-standing characters and the failure to perform of Bertie, who has just proved that he can't hack it without the drugs.
Well this has been a fascinating tour thanks to the loss of a couple of long-standing characters and the failure to perform of Bertie, who has just proved that he can't hack it without the drugs.
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In reply to keith-ratcliffe:
Every team has a man for the job. Their man for the GC. Their man for sprints. Their domestiques, their chaps to suffer solo. It's all a team effort. Chris Froome happens to be one of the strongest riders in the world. No others can put out the power he can. They don't pick straws. He's earned it. You might see it as wheel sucking, but if you put them all at the bottom of a hill, every single rider he'd still be at the top. I'm not a Froome fan per se. But he's a fantastic rider everywhere he needs to be.
Bike racing is about being the fastest guy to the finish line. Not how long you suffer on the front. It's about decision making, about reading everyone around you, reading the race, being smart and being able to switch off that bit of your brain that's telling you to stop pedalling. There's only a few people capable of that over 3 weeks of racing. He is the best.
Every team has a man for the job. Their man for the GC. Their man for sprints. Their domestiques, their chaps to suffer solo. It's all a team effort. Chris Froome happens to be one of the strongest riders in the world. No others can put out the power he can. They don't pick straws. He's earned it. You might see it as wheel sucking, but if you put them all at the bottom of a hill, every single rider he'd still be at the top. I'm not a Froome fan per se. But he's a fantastic rider everywhere he needs to be.
Bike racing is about being the fastest guy to the finish line. Not how long you suffer on the front. It's about decision making, about reading everyone around you, reading the race, being smart and being able to switch off that bit of your brain that's telling you to stop pedalling. There's only a few people capable of that over 3 weeks of racing. He is the best.
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In reply to Yanis Nayu:
Rider of the tour - Daniel Martin - always trying to gain seconds
Team of the tour - AG2R LM - for the attacks
Rider of the tour - Daniel Martin - always trying to gain seconds
Team of the tour - AG2R LM - for the attacks
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In reply to dilatory:
You seem to be forgetting that there is more to the tour than the yellow. Green was really interesting this year and it felt like the polka dot was properly won for the first time in a few years.
Kwiatkowski was immense as was Landa and Froome would not have won without either, will be interesting to see how Landa does with Movistar. Bardet could have played safe and got 2nd, but he played a higher risk game.
You seem to be forgetting that there is more to the tour than the yellow. Green was really interesting this year and it felt like the polka dot was properly won for the first time in a few years.
Kwiatkowski was immense as was Landa and Froome would not have won without either, will be interesting to see how Landa does with Movistar. Bardet could have played safe and got 2nd, but he played a higher risk game.
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In reply to Yanis Nayu:
Kwiatkowski for a really professional job. Barguil for classic polker dot but Thomas de Gent for all out combat....so much time in the breaks and I love watching him ...
Kwiatkowski for a really professional job. Barguil for classic polker dot but Thomas de Gent for all out combat....so much time in the breaks and I love watching him ...
In reply to The New NickB:
Not forgetting, just replying to a comment about Froome sucking wheels. Race for green was marred this year but still somewhat interesting.
I'm a bit put off Landa for throwing his toys out of the pram. Don't reckon he'll fit in Movistar but what do I know. Kwiatkowski was exceptional and like I said every win is a team effort. They're all benefitting from the win.
Rigo had a cracking tour too, surprised me, and I I've always been a bit of a 'Dale fan boy.
Not forgetting, just replying to a comment about Froome sucking wheels. Race for green was marred this year but still somewhat interesting.
I'm a bit put off Landa for throwing his toys out of the pram. Don't reckon he'll fit in Movistar but what do I know. Kwiatkowski was exceptional and like I said every win is a team effort. They're all benefitting from the win.
Rigo had a cracking tour too, surprised me, and I I've always been a bit of a 'Dale fan boy.
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In reply to Lusk:
But the other contenders also spent 95% of the tour drafting, and had more shelter from the wind as unlike Froome they were tucked in the pack rather than 3rd or 4th. And you can't draft in TTs, and who had the best times there ?
Yes the team was vital - Aru and Martin lost time due to theirs - but you have to remember that Sky are expected to do more, because of their record and the fact they held yellow for almost the entire race.
> Who spent 95% of the tour drafting. He wouldn't have been on the podium without that team.
But the other contenders also spent 95% of the tour drafting, and had more shelter from the wind as unlike Froome they were tucked in the pack rather than 3rd or 4th. And you can't draft in TTs, and who had the best times there ?
Yes the team was vital - Aru and Martin lost time due to theirs - but you have to remember that Sky are expected to do more, because of their record and the fact they held yellow for almost the entire race.
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In reply to Yanis Nayu:
In terms of who has increased their market value the most, I'd say Landa. Presumably he'll get to lead Movistar at the Giro next year, but maybe the tour if Quintana leaves the team or has another bad year.
In terms of who has increased their market value the most, I'd say Landa. Presumably he'll get to lead Movistar at the Giro next year, but maybe the tour if Quintana leaves the team or has another bad year.
In reply to Yanis Nayu:
Agree with a lot of the comments above about the amazing efforts by some of team sky's riders but for me Dan Martin. He always adds excitement with his attacks and riding and to see him angrily raising his hands before he'd even stopped bouncing after Porte took him out at close to 50mph made me smile. To then go on racing and attacking and see him struggling to stand up straight getting off his bike at the end of a stage. I also liked both the French guys 3rd and polka (can't fight auto correct this morning) as they smiled and in the case of Bardot was polite and sportsmanlike and behaved like a champion in all his interviews.
I did miss the missing sprinters though.
Cheers
Toby
Agree with a lot of the comments above about the amazing efforts by some of team sky's riders but for me Dan Martin. He always adds excitement with his attacks and riding and to see him angrily raising his hands before he'd even stopped bouncing after Porte took him out at close to 50mph made me smile. To then go on racing and attacking and see him struggling to stand up straight getting off his bike at the end of a stage. I also liked both the French guys 3rd and polka (can't fight auto correct this morning) as they smiled and in the case of Bardot was polite and sportsmanlike and behaved like a champion in all his interviews.
I did miss the missing sprinters though.
Cheers
Toby
In reply to Yanis Nayu:
I like Dan Martin, and I think Landa was a revelation (for me) but I'd go with Kwiat. I was impressed with how he had to stop on Izoard http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/video-kwiatkowski-rides-so-hard-on-... You can't really ask for much more from a domestique.
Rob
I like Dan Martin, and I think Landa was a revelation (for me) but I'd go with Kwiat. I was impressed with how he had to stop on Izoard http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/video-kwiatkowski-rides-so-hard-on-... You can't really ask for much more from a domestique.
Rob
In reply to Toby_W:
Wonder if Martin will stay at Quick Step. He was hampered by the fact that the team were more focused on Kittel, and whilst he is off to Katusha, you have Gaviria and Jungels coming though. Both had great Giros and are likely to be at the Tour next year.
QS always a team with loads of talented riders, but not always able to combine well - ask Ian Stannard !
Wonder if Martin will stay at Quick Step. He was hampered by the fact that the team were more focused on Kittel, and whilst he is off to Katusha, you have Gaviria and Jungels coming though. Both had great Giros and are likely to be at the Tour next year.
QS always a team with loads of talented riders, but not always able to combine well - ask Ian Stannard !
In reply to Rigid Raider:
And Uran and Quintana have proved the same!
> Well this has been a fascinating tour thanks to the loss of a couple of long-standing characters and the failure to perform of Bertie, who has just proved that he can't hack it without the drugs.
And Uran and Quintana have proved the same!
Post edited at 11:37
In reply to Yanis Nayu:
Another vote for Dan Martin. Yates done good and gives good interview. The shape of this year's tour was affected by losing Geraint, Cav, Sagan. Can't argue with the result but the Sky train steamroller didn't make for the best spectacle. AG2R did at least try and animate things. Barguil also on my 'good to watch' list. Aru and Uran did pretty well given lack of team support. Points too to ITV4 - nice little squadra they've got going now.
Another vote for Dan Martin. Yates done good and gives good interview. The shape of this year's tour was affected by losing Geraint, Cav, Sagan. Can't argue with the result but the Sky train steamroller didn't make for the best spectacle. AG2R did at least try and animate things. Barguil also on my 'good to watch' list. Aru and Uran did pretty well given lack of team support. Points too to ITV4 - nice little squadra they've got going now.
Post edited at 11:43
In reply to dilatory:
Yes, well that's the problem with bike racing for the layman. Actually, it seems to be worse than that; even the non laymen are left arguing about who the "rider of the tour" is after the race has been "won". Serious question: does the best cyclist usually win? Or does the leader of the best team usually win?
> You watch the whole tour but still don't seem to understand bike racing. Weird.
Yes, well that's the problem with bike racing for the layman. Actually, it seems to be worse than that; even the non laymen are left arguing about who the "rider of the tour" is after the race has been "won". Serious question: does the best cyclist usually win? Or does the leader of the best team usually win?
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Its a combination of the two, (and more)
One could argue that if Landa had been team leader, Sky would have been able to give him the win, same with Thomas. But the riders do have to be good enough. Sagan is the fastest cyclist in a sprint, but he'll never win the GC.
Who's the best runner, Bolt or Farah?
> ... Serious question: does the best cyclist usually win? Or does the leader of the best team usually win?
Its a combination of the two, (and more)
One could argue that if Landa had been team leader, Sky would have been able to give him the win, same with Thomas. But the riders do have to be good enough. Sagan is the fastest cyclist in a sprint, but he'll never win the GC.
Who's the best runner, Bolt or Farah?
Post edited at 11:47
In reply to Robert Durran:
Impossible to say, because the expectation on Sky to do the work changes the dynamic of the race. The better you are perceived to be, the harder it gets - see in Sagan in the classics this year. At last years Vuelta Bertie was able to exploit a weak Sky team, but the beneficiaries were another strong team (Movistar). Not so much chess on wheel, more like poker.
Impossible to say, because the expectation on Sky to do the work changes the dynamic of the race. The better you are perceived to be, the harder it gets - see in Sagan in the classics this year. At last years Vuelta Bertie was able to exploit a weak Sky team, but the beneficiaries were another strong team (Movistar). Not so much chess on wheel, more like poker.
In reply to Fredt:
I'm not convinced about that. Being in the position of having to call the shots is very different. One thing Froome did show this year is that mentally he is right on the money.
> Its a combination of the two, (and more)
> One could argue that if Landa had been team leader, Sky would have been able to give him the win, same with Thomas.
I'm not convinced about that. Being in the position of having to call the shots is very different. One thing Froome did show this year is that mentally he is right on the money.
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In reply to Fredt:
Not sure what you mean here, he's probably currently not even in the top five sprinters on the flat (uphill is a different matter).
He makes up for the lack of pure speed with great technique, guile and the ability to takle just about any terain that the pure sprinters cant handle.
The tour really missed him this year.
> Sagan is the fastest cyclist in a sprint
Not sure what you mean here, he's probably currently not even in the top five sprinters on the flat (uphill is a different matter).
He makes up for the lack of pure speed with great technique, guile and the ability to takle just about any terain that the pure sprinters cant handle.
The tour really missed him this year.
In reply to GrahamD:
And also have the loyalty and support of the team - cf. Aru and Astana (though I don't really understand why they didn't seem to want to work for him).
How much of the on-the-road tactics are the decision of the team leader and how much are the Director Sportif's, yelling into the radio from the team car?
> Being in the position of having to call the shots is very different. One thing Froome did show this year is that mentally he is right on the money.
And also have the loyalty and support of the team - cf. Aru and Astana (though I don't really understand why they didn't seem to want to work for him).
How much of the on-the-road tactics are the decision of the team leader and how much are the Director Sportif's, yelling into the radio from the team car?
In reply to nufkin:
You get the impression that when to turn the screws and when to settle the pace back is very much Froome's decision on the road at the hot end of the stage. You see him talking on the radio a lot.
Not sure what happened with Aru but that certainly didn't look like a fully committed GC squad and a marked contrast to AG2R and Sky
> How much of the on-the-road tactics are the decision of the team leader and how much are the Director Sportif's, yelling into the radio from the team car?
You get the impression that when to turn the screws and when to settle the pace back is very much Froome's decision on the road at the hot end of the stage. You see him talking on the radio a lot.
Not sure what happened with Aru but that certainly didn't look like a fully committed GC squad and a marked contrast to AG2R and Sky
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