UKC

Been looking for a GPS to use as a backup in the alps for more remote climbs. Would want to use it in the following circumstances.

- route finding - wack in a co-ordinate to double check route to the hut for example.

- tracking route taken across glacier in order to retrace steps safety.

- in poor weather conditions to quickly follow back to safety.


Any suggestions? Everyone seems to be talking about the Garmin Etrek 30. Do no mind going second-hand for an old piece of kit which is reliable.

Will it come with suitable maps for Europe? (Austria, Switzerland, French alps)

Do not really want to use one of those watches so handheld suggestions please!


NOTE > Yes, I can read a map and know the pros/cons of relying on gadgets for safety

In reply to Wildabeast:
A 10 year old Garmin Geko will do all of those things for 25 quid or so. Its more modern replacement is the Etrex10 for about 70 pounds. Both will run off two AA batteries for a long time.

Neither of those have any kind of useful built in map, (the Etrex 10 might have Geneva marked but that's it!) but if you already have the map and are just checking co-ordinates or following your snail trail back, they will work. It's easy to put in a list of point-to-point co-ordinates you work out in advance from a proper map.
The black and white screens of these things are readable outside.

The Etrex30 has maps but you'll need to buy local maps which may or may not exist for your area. They might not be very detailed, but you can load them in advance. There used to be a PC program for uploading & drawing routes onto the device called "Basecamp", I don't know what it's like now, when I last used it, it was a travesty of modern software design. Perhaps it's better now.

The built in map uses open street map which can be very detailed if people have drawn that area. The version in the GPS might be out of date but can easily be updated. This map is free and has world wide coverage. You can easily see what the coverage for the area you are interested in is like here:
https://www.openstreetmap.org
The detail on that map can be superb but it can also be inaccurate so watch out. The flip side of that is if you find a mistake, you can update it. You can select which type of layer you want (topographic, cycle tracks, ski runs etc.) I forget which the one used on the Etrex is.

You can get the same sort of functionality on a phone app these days, eg Viewranger, both with the free Openstreetmaps and paid national mapping agency maps. See the article in the latest Summit magazine. Of course, a phone might croak out in the cold or wet, doesn't work with gloves and might be hard to read in full sunlight.

For me, Etrex 10 is a perfect back up. I'm sure the staff in Cotswolds can show you other devices and you can get a feel for what works for you.

In reply to richard_hopkins:

Etrex 10 is awesome, but the major thing it lacks is a proper compass - it only finds north when you are moving, which could be an issue on a crevasse ridden glacier when you can't just stride around in a straight line. Also no topographicals, so you have to plot your routes in advance.

The plus side of these missing features is that the battery life is immense, and it's fairly cheap.

In reply to Wildabeast:

Gaia GPS for smartphones can do exactly what you need and more. I use it frequently for guiding in the backcountry and on the ice sheet of Greenland. If you are careful with your battery management there is juice enough for a few days (some say a week, but I like music...) I always carry an InReach or a standard GPS and a satellite phone, as it is company procedure, but Gaia is what I use for navigation, as it is so easy to use.

In reply to Wildabeast:

The Garmin Geko doesn't lock onto the satellites as well as later models and battery life isn't as good. A shame because it's half the size of other models.

I recently moved from an eTrex H to an eTrex 10. I challenged myself to find my location without looking at the instructions and failed. I don't think it is particularly intuitive for occasional use, especially compared to the eTrex H. However, the eTrex H has complaints from owners (including me) that it will switch itself off for no reason, which would be problematic if you're recording a track over a glacier.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

I agree, it is a faff not having the built-in compass in the etrex10 but manageable with preparation.

I once got down from the Breithorn in fog into Italy by navigating with the combination of compass, etrexH and excellent 1:10k Swiss map.
It was slow but we picked our way carefully down.

On the subject of maps, it is possible to put custom maps on the etrex10. You have to delete the built-in basemap and there is only about 5mb of space but that's enough for a few square km of openstreetmap. You do need a computer to swap it round though, so definitely needs advance planning!

There are instructions on the internet or I'll post a link later.

In reply to Wildabeast:

I downloaded view ranger to my phone, you can buy map sheets for 99p. And download routes to it. I figured it was a really cheap alternative to buying a proper gps navigator. I've only used it in this country but found it to be really really good. But if you do get it take a backup charge with you as it eats battery.

In reply to Wildabeast:

The phone thing is such a pain (iPhone) as my battery will last max 24 hours especially if I have GPS running on it. This is why the Garmin is appealing, separate device, better battery life.

In reply to richard_hopkins:

thats interesting... the basemap that comes with Garmin... Is that any good or will I need to be uploading my own?

In reply to richard_hopkins:

thanks thats really helpful, definitely going to size some up in a shop.

In reply to Wildabeast:

The basemap that comes with the Etrex10 is woeful, it fits an entire planet's worth of goodness and detail into 500kb.
Handy for determining if you're in London, Birmingham or Norway but no use for getting between them!

The one that comes with the larger devices like Etrex20, Etrex30 is much better and it's easy to select more detailed areas, some of which are free to download. I don't have one of those devices but I've used one.
They have a removable SD card, so you can buy for example a card with all of UK 1:50k on it for £200.
Or get your own card and put detailed OSM maps on it of which ever area you fancy for free.

I have an Etrex10 and I just tried updating the basemap with the procedure outlined here:
http://slowfoodsurvivalist.com/?p=275

I was able to fit an area about 50km^2 centred on Guildford into 1Mb which worked nicely with all the streets labeled, and buildings and footpaths shown. That size would be perfect to cover the Chamonix valley for example but won't show any detail of the terrain.

This page shows what proper maps are available for the Garmins (not the Etrex10, that's a hack at best)
http://www.garmin.com/en-GB/maps/outdoor

It's worth getting your hands on a device though to see if it suits you and help you choose what's important to you.

In reply to Stefan Jacobsen:

Here's a link to someone who is able to squeeze 10 days of navigation out of an iPhone.
http://www.adventurealan.com/iphone-gps-map-backpacking/

In reply to Wildabeast:

I have a Garmin Etrex Vista Hcx bought of EBay for that sort of purpose. Its small, light, altimeter built in, excellent battery life, waterproof, no touch screen and a uSD card slot for maps. Downside is the screen is small and low-ish resolution. The Garmon Gecko is hopeless - takes forever to find a signal. Modern touch screen GPS are difficult in the cold with gloves.