UKC

Money for time - do you 'buy' extra holidays?

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 Fraser 25 Jul 2017
A BBC article today says that time rather than money brings more contentment.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-40703519

Every year, I purchase an extra week's holiday so I have more 'me time'. This 5 day allowance is the maximum I can buy in any one year, if I could buy more I most certainly would. Some colleagues do it to have time off in case their kids are sick and have to stay home, but I don't think that many do it just to gain more personal time.

Short of switching to a shorter working week (I currently do 37.5hrs over 5 days) which I hope to do within the next year, there's not much more I can do to gain more personal time.

How many on UKC work shortened hours, or have gone part time out of choice? And if you could buy extra holidays, how many weeks salary would you be willing to sacrifice?
 Ridge 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

Good question.

I'd certainly buy at least an extra week if I could. I'd also like to get my 37 hours in over 4 days.
 galpinos 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

I buy 5 days extra holiday every year and finish at lunchtime on a Friday most weeks. The extra afternoon used to be for climbing but it's now for ballet lessons and time with my daughters. I'd really miss that time if I had to work that afternoon.

I have a 40hr minimum working week.
baron 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

Longer holidays was often the reason for climbers becoming teachers.
OP Fraser 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Ridge:

> I'd certainly buy at least an extra week if I could. I'd also like to get my 37 hours in over 4 days.

Likewise!

A friend does a 9 day fortnight by working a little extra (45 mins?) each day, so she gets every second Friday off, but still gets a full annual salary which seems a good way of having your cake and eating it. It still means you don't actually get any extra time I suppose, just that you can 'bank' it and can use it in a large lump.
OP Fraser 25 Jul 2017
In reply to baron:

True perhaps, but I wonder how many of them would buy even more if they could, assuming they had the flexibility to take the time whenever they wanted.
 Big Ger 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

I'm lucky, not only do my shifts entitle me to a flex day a month, I also get 7 weeks annual leave for doing them.
OP Fraser 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Big Ger:

Sounds good. If you don't mind me asking how long are the shifts and would you forego some salary to have more holidays?
 Big Ger 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:
I work a seven day roster, within which the days off are mobile, so this week I'm working Mon, Tues, Weds, .....Sat, Sun.

As we're a 365 days service, I do not get public holidays off, (unless rostered off,) but they are paid at a better rate.

My shifts, which changed recently, are weekdays 12.00 noon to 8.30 pm.

Weekends and public holidays 9.00 am to 5.30 pm.


ETA: I've been working these shifts for the past 16 years, so they've normalised for me now.
Post edited at 10:38
 Sl@te Head 25 Jul 2017
In reply to baron:

> Longer holidays was often the reason for climbers becoming teachers.

I'm a teacher, and wanted even more 'me time' so went part time working a 0.8 contract, no regrets. Time's way more important than money in my opinion.
 hokkyokusei 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

Where I work people get 25 days + bank holidays, as standard, and you get an extra day for every years service, up to 30 days. But, you can also just buy those extra days if you don't have the years service. In addition, once you have worked here for three years, you can ask for 'sabbatical' leave, of up to three months. It's unpaid, but I've taken advantage of it three times now, for periods of about a month and have been to Nepal, Peru and Mongolia. It's a great policy, but I would say that, as I came up with it!
 timjones 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

> A BBC article today says that time rather than money brings more contentment.


> Every year, I purchase an extra week's holiday so I have more 'me time'. This 5 day allowance is the maximum I can buy in any one year, if I could buy more I most certainly would. Some colleagues do it to have time off in case their kids are sick and have to stay home, but I don't think that many do it just to gain more personal time.

> Short of switching to a shorter working week (I currently do 37.5hrs over 5 days) which I hope to do within the next year, there's not much more I can do to gain more personal time.

> How many on UKC work shortened hours, or have gone part time out of choice? And if you could buy extra holidays, how many weeks salary would you be willing to sacrifice?

I'm self employed, i have to buy each and every day of holiday that I have
 Big Ger 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Sl@te Head:

> Time's way more important than money in my opinion.

Agreed, that's why I'm taking early retirement, and planning to get along on a severely reduced income for a few years.

 hokkyokusei 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Sl@te Head:

> ... Time's way more important than money in my opinion.

While I agree with you, I would add the caveat, that you need to have 'enough' money first, where enough is a variable amount, depending upon the person and their circumstances.
OP Fraser 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Big Ger:
Not sure about the length of break, if any , you get in that shift length but it sounds as if you work longer hours but get more time off too compensate. Would that be correct?

I think I get 8 public holidays a year, and have 26 annual days leave (plus the extra 5 I buy) so it sounds as if it's roughly the same totals but, as you say, you have yours in larger chunks.
Post edited at 10:51
OP Fraser 25 Jul 2017
In reply to timjones:

That's a difficult one, you really have to think about the value of your own down-time!
 Sl@te Head 25 Jul 2017
In reply to hokkyokusei:

I agree, but was trying to keep my response short, there were also other reasons for going part time, including not burning out before retirement age in the outdoor industry.
OP Fraser 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Sl@te Head:

> I'm a teacher, and wanted even more 'me time' so went part time working a 0.8 contract, no regrets. Time's way more important than money in my opinion.

Agreed. I hope to switch to a 4 day week next year too.
 Big Ger 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

> Not sure about the length of break, if any , you get in that shift length but it sounds as if you work longer hours but get more time off too compensate. Would that be correct?

Yep, spot on. I take lunch at my desk, between clients.


OP Fraser 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Big Ger:

It'll be interesting, post-Brexit, to see if employment conditions are amended here. If we do more than 48 hours per week over a certain number of weeks were currently entitled to time off in lieu. Very few people actually claim this - I think most just expect a bit of come and go on either side. If the employer is flexible and reasonable, so is the employee. For example, some of my colleagues like to come in late and work late, I prefer it the other way round and like to start and stop early.
 Ridge 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

> Likewise!

> A friend does a 9 day fortnight by working a little extra (45 mins?) each day, so she gets every second Friday off, but still gets a full annual salary which seems a good way of having your cake and eating it. It still means you don't actually get any extra time I suppose, just that you can 'bank' it and can use it in a large lump.

Sad thing is I put the extra time in anyway, but don't get the day off
 Neil Williams 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:
I believe we are going to get this ability some time next year and I expect I will buy up to the maximum (I expect this is likely to be 30 days plus bank holidays), yes.
Post edited at 12:08
cb294 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Ridge:

Same here. In addition, I have never been able to use up my full holiday allowance or taking days off to compesate for weekend work since getting my PhD.

Cb
 yorkshireman 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

I hope it doesn't sound smug but I'm lucky enough to have plenty. I work for good employer but also on French contract.

I get 27 days standard holiday plus bank holidays (usually around the same number as UK).

However since there's a 35 hour working week here, and it is accepted (but not measured) that I work generally more than that (and I do, especially if you include business travel) then the agreement with the Works Council give us back around 14 extra days a year (it varies between one or two days a year).

I find it difficult to use them all but I'm glad I've got the choice. It's great that in the office it is a culturally accepted (in fact encouraged) to use it all.

However I think there's a big difference between working shorter hours and taking more holiday. If you're constantly overworked and are burning out and need to take holiday to switch off, I would argue that's worse than say working a 4 day week (like my colleagues in the Dutch office do) and keeping things a bit more balanced and sustainable.
OP Fraser 25 Jul 2017
In reply to yorkshireman:

That all sounds very fair. And very French!

Agreed re taking holidays just to get back to a stable mental or physical datum, rather than being able to actively use it to relax or use as personal time.
 wilkie14c 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

I chose to do 3 x 12 hour shifts per week and would t swap it for the world now. Long days in a stressful environment while i'm there but hey, 4 days off a week!
 Denzil 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser: back in the 80's the company I worked for gave us 5 days extra holiday instead of a pay rise. A few people were annoyed, but accepted it. 7 or 8 years later they offered to buy them back off us - I don't think anyone accepted the offer! When I got to my late 50's I dropped to a 4 day working week (31hrs) so I could have long weekends for trips away - the Friday had been a short day anyway and saving a commute round trip of 64 miles was a factor.

baron 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:
I'd have bought quite a few more weeks if that had been an option.
Some Of my colleagues chose to take weeks off pretending to be sick instead.
Post edited at 15:51
 Mike-W-99 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

I buy 5 days a year with an allowance we get on top of our salaries for buying benefits etc

Work offer various flexible working arrangements which I'm hoping to take advantage off next year.
 nathan79 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

My work gives the option of buying an extra week of leave, I didn't take advantage for the first few years but now I do it every year. Coupled with a week consisting of 4 9.25 hour days it makes for a lot of potential fun time. This year I carried a week over from the previous year's leave allowance and bought a week giving me 9.5 weeks worth of holiday for the year.

On August 1st I'll have been in my job 10 years. I promised myself I'd never stay in a job that long but in addition to the annual leave it pays okay, the people are decent and the pension is decent (somewhat of a rarity these days). I could chase a higher paying role elsewhere but at the moment I'm not keen to trade fun time for £s.
 gav 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

I work a 33hr in 4 day week, and also buy (the equivalent of) 4 extra weeks on top of my annual leave.

It's great, but it certainly feels like a privileged position.

I'd take more off if I could/thought I could still keep my job. It does make you (feel) less secure at work, and I don't have kids to worry about.
 Andypeak 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

We can buy upto 28 days. Sadly this is not an affordable option but I usually buy 10 days. I'm always skint but it's worth it in my opinion.
 Luke90 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

I chose to switch from full-time to part-time teaching years ago. One of the best decisions I've ever made. Work-life balance is lovely, obviously, and I'm climbing better than I ever did before. Plus, I have the time and the energy to do a much better job of teaching on the days I'm in.
OP Fraser 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Luke90:
I've yet to hear from friends or acquaintances who've switched to a 4 or even 3 day week and said they regret it or have switched back to longer, regular hours. That tells me something needs to be done in my own situation. I'm hoping that by 2018 I can go to a 4 day week.

One thing that I can't decide on is which day to take. Some advice from colleagues is to take Mondays as the non-work day, it's something to do with how that generates more holidays for you in total once public holidays are taken into account. However I think I'd maybe prefer something midweek, like Wed or Thur as it must feel like it's breaking the week into smaller chunks; you'd always be on your penultimate day before a break or on the eve of your break. Win-win! I suppose it depends on what you plan on doing with that extra day off. You'd always need a climbing partner who was off those days too.

Edit:
In reply to andypeak & gav: those are the sort of flexible conditions that I'd love to have. I'd buy an extra month in a heartbeat.
Post edited at 20:24
In reply to Fraser:
3 years ago my wife and I moved to the Black Mountains to run a tiny rural school. We both now work 3 days a week ( plus evenings etc but that's teaching) and I have 2 days to hit the hills on my bike. We don't get paid as much as if we worked full time but the difference isn't as much as you would think and as I'm typing this from a balcony overlooking the Bay of Kotor in Montenegro we obviously aren't too badly off. Time beats money any day.
 Philip 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

You know you are entitled to take 18 weeks parental leave per child in their first 18 years.

https://www.gov.uk/parental-leave/entitlement

I'm planning to take my 36 weeks across the middle 10 years or so when they will most benefit.
 Matt Vigg 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

How common is this? I've actually never heard of employers offering it, would definitely do it if it was available. A long time ago I used to take an extra month off unpaid each year, flippin awesome, I was constantly organising the next trip.
 Luke90 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:
> One thing that I can't decide on is which day to take.

After three years of different combinations of days, my experience has been that it really doesn't matter. Long weekends are awesome but so is breaking up the working week into tiny chunks. The only thing I wouldn't do is half days.

Where I work, going part time was something they only grudgingly accepted so being completely flexible about my days each year won me back some of the brownie points that I'd lost.
OP Fraser 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Philip:

Yep, knew that but doesn't apply to me. Unless I become a dirty(-er) old man I suppose! Good idea re taking it later though. I can see the benefits ... assuming your employer is still around.

In reply to Matt Vigg:
I don't know but I do know of a few places that do it so I think it may not be that rare.

In reply to luke90:
Yes, it's probably too easy to fritter away a half day doing nothing, but having a full day availavailable would I think make you actively plan something. My own employer would probably prefer a consistent day per week so they can progamme meetings etc to a regular diary slot, but I'd probably prefer a degree of flexibility. They'd no doubt be flexi to some extent just as long as I kept decent tabs on things and didn't try to wangle the system.
 Dave 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

I take two weeks extra holiday a year instead of getting holiday bonus pay - which is about two weeks salary, that gives me seven weeks holiday a year. Well worth it. I once took a month unpaid leave to add to holiday to go on a big trip somewhere exciting. It was also worth it, but best not to add up the financial cost, just remember the experience.
 Jon Stewart 25 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

I work 4 days (30h). I can't be arsed to do any more.
 Babika 26 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

> A BBC article today says that time rather than money brings more contentment.

If science says it, then it must be true. But I feel its not time, or money that brings contentment but autonomy. Lots of people are workaholics and lots of people are lazy sods and both are happy. It isn't necessarily either path that brings contentment but the ability to freely choose your path rather than have it foisted on you.
 tehmarks 26 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

I'm lucky in that I'm self-employed and probably average a three day week over the course of the year. My days are 12 hours long so I'm not working much less than the average office worker, but I'm almost guaranteed to have the entire of February and August off every year, as well as full weeks or more off throughout the year. Definitely a great situation.

I'd agree that having more time is much better than having more money. It doesn't matter how much you earn, you're only alive for so long. Got to make the most of it.
 Chris H 26 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

I binned teaching and now work 3 days in an office doing education related paperwork. Not paid as much but enough and I get a 4 day weekend free of planning / marking etc. I tend to work through the summer and take hols when schools are back as its cheaper / quieter. Have bought 3 days extra hols this year.
OP Fraser 26 Jul 2017
In reply to Babika:

I was wondering why it was in the Science & Environment section! There are two issues here I suppose: how happy you are with your job in general and how much you value your personal, non-working life. If the first issue is answered very much in the positive, you're perhaps less likely to need or seek more personal time.
 Dax H 26 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

Reading threads like this really make me wish I had a job rather than own a business employing people.
3 or 4 day weeks, 38 hour weeks, flexible time, paid holidays, all a pipe dream in my world.
I am currently on holiday in France on my first ever 2 week holiday with my phone on airplane mode but that's all the time I will be able to take off this year.
I have never been employed, but it seems the grass certainly is greener.
 Big Ger 26 Jul 2017
In reply to Dax H:

Could you sell the business and retire on the proceeds?
OP Fraser 26 Jul 2017
In reply to Dax H:

I can imagine it does seem better being an employee but it's almost certainly swings and roundabouts for each type of employment. You obviously chose the self employment route for a reason or reasons. Are they still applicable?

On the flip side, presumably the harder you work the greater your (or at least your company's) income. Can't you ease back on the hours and forego some income?

Have you read Robert Kiyosaki's book 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad'? It gives some interesting insights into securing one's financial future. Essentially the message is: 'work smart, not hard.'
 Dax H 26 Jul 2017
In reply to Big Ger:

> Could you sell the business and retire on the proceeds?

Not yet. The company isn't profitable enough to sell and retire (yet).
I'm busy growing it to the point that hopefully it will be but that takes money to do and that money has to be earned.
Every expansion of it has been self funded through money we earned rather than external investment or loans but that leaves the net profit a little slim until I hit the balance point that I am looking for.
 Dax H 26 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

> I can imagine it does seem better being an employee but it's almost certainly swings and roundabouts for each type of employment. You obviously chose the self employment route for a reason or reasons. Are they still applicable?

I didn't chose self employed, it just sort of happened and 30 years later I'm still doing it but due to circumstances outside of my control I had to start expanding 7 years ago and that's when the quality of living dropped right off.

> On the flip side, presumably the harder you work the greater your (or at least your company's) income. Can't you ease back on the hours and forego some income?

Not and stay in business no and if I go out of business the consequences will be devastating for my ex business partners family.

> Have you read Robert Kiyosaki's book 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad'? It gives some interesting insights into securing one's financial future. Essentially the message is: 'work smart, not hard.'

Good in theory but not always practical.
Things were great until my business partner who also happened to be my uncle was diagnosed with parkinsons in 2007.
I had 2 choices, support him or walk away and sell up.
For his own mental well being he needed to work so I went for support him and had to expand the business to pit people in place to cover for him on the bad days.
Basically I have hemorrhaged money from 2007 until he retired in March 2016 giving him the easiest working life possible whilst still maintaining what he saw as a purpose to life.
He took his own life in June 2017 as being no longer able to work depression got to him and also he didn't want to be a burden to his wife and kids.

His wife is relying on the money I pay her each month to cover his share of the business (a very inflated figure because due to the lack of profits caused by his illness he wasn't actually due enough to live on) so if I jack it in she is screwed.

Things are on the up though, 9 years struggling to survive and deal with the illness have left me with a good infrastructure and profits are on the rise so maybe another 10 years taking me to 55 and I will be in a position to sell the business and retire but you never know what's round the corner, my employees are like family and if any of them fell ill they would get exactly the same support and that would push my plans back again.

 nathan79 26 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

Tuesday is my fixed day off. I didn't choose it, it's because it's the quietest day of the week. Does mean I only have to take 1 day of for a 4-day weekend, but some weeks it feels like I have 2 Mondays.

I'd agree with the suggestion of Monday as your chosen day off. As your colleagues have suggested, you should still be entitled to all the bank holidays as part of your leave even though it's not a working day for you.
 1poundSOCKS 26 Jul 2017
In reply to Babika:

> If science says it, then it must be true. But I feel its not time, or money that brings contentment but autonomy.

I suppose the scientific approach is trying to be evidence based, even if it doesn't always get it right. And whether it does a good job or not in this case, isn't that a better approach than just going on feeling alone?
OP Fraser 26 Jul 2017
In reply to Dax H:

That's a very sobering tale, I can see why you want to be a simple employee as that does sound as if it would ease a lot of the strain you find yourself under. Best of luck with growing the business further and reclaiming the hard won benefits. They are overdue.
 Blue Straggler 26 Jul 2017
In reply to Dax H:

I in no way mean to sound unsympathetic to the situation that your former business partner's family are now it, but it sounds like you are flogging yourself silly to cover some potential lack of critical illness life cover. I am merely commenting - not judging and I certainly have no advice to offer unfortunately. Sounds like you made the decision to help out (and I know you have not complained about it on here - you have merely described your situation), and that is very gallant.
 andy 26 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser: I have the option to buy a week's extra leave, and did one year, but never took it and always end up carrying leave over.

This isn't because I'm a workaholic, but because we work very flexibly (they call it "agile", but that seems to be applied to bloody everything these days), which means I choose where and when to work. So I work at home Monday and Friday, usually come into an office (we have few locations) three days a week. But it's also fine if I choose to nip out on my bike for a few hours on a working day then work at other times. I tend to catch up on emails on Saturday for example, but I don't resent it as I'll have had a nice afternoon riding my bike or taking the dog for a run.

So I don't find I need all those odd days off that I used to take to get a bike ride or take the kids somewhere or whatever - so I'm finding myself actually taking less leave and having more me time.
OP Fraser 26 Jul 2017
In reply to andy:

> I have the option to buy a week's extra leave, and did one year, but never took it and always end up carrying leave over.

It's exactly the same for me, bought an extra week and carried over the max. 7 days that I could from 2016. I'm determined to use everything this year though, and I'd like to take a 3 month sabbatical next year. I've told the directors this and they're fine with it; they only really need as much notice as possible, which is what I've given them.

Re your situation and checking emails on Saturdays, I prefer to leave work in the office of at all possible and really try hard not to look at the mail that's building up in my absence. But I can see why you do it since you've got the flip side of time off when you want it. Nice set up.
 Dax H 26 Jul 2017
In reply to Blue Straggler:

> I in no way mean to sound unsympathetic to the situation that your former business partner's family are now it, but it sounds like you are flogging yourself silly to cover some potential lack of critical illness life cover. I am merely commenting - not judging.

That's the real rub, he had critical illness cover but there was a clause specifically for parkinsons.
For the cover to pay out he had to go on medication within a time frame of being diagnosed. He had slow onset and by the time the doctors agreed that he needed medication to control it the deadline had passed by a year.
The main thing was keeping him working though. He was the kind of guy who never took a day off sick and loved to work and be useful.
I knew as soon as he stopped working he would deteriorate very fast and unfortunately I was proven correct.

 Pbob 27 Jul 2017
In reply to Fraser:

Last year I bought an extra 5 days to spend with the family or get outdoors a bit more. The problem is that there is a real long hours culture at my employer and unpaid overtime on evenings and weekends is expected. Long story short I pretty much ended up working the 5 days I'd bought as leave and a chunk of my ordinary annual leave and I was left out of pocket. I had in interview for a new job today

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