UKC

Hi, posting in Off Belay rather than Destinations as that forum seems to be about climbing destinations.

I am considering a lone holiday to Peru, full tourist stuff. 2.5-3 weeks.
Basic plan is to fly to Cuzco and base myself there and just kind of wing it, booking onto various excursions, hikes etc out there according to whim and according to who I might meet and want to hang out with.

My plan is, as you see, rather vague! I only recently decided on South America, and flicked through the Lonely Planet guide for the continent and this seemed the best way to do it as a lone traveller who enjoys company.

Does the "go to Cuzco and wing it" plan sound sensible enough or am I better off shelling out for a package with (say) Exodus? I don't that a package will have a premium slapped on it but I wonder if it's worth it versus a lot of scratting around and haggling etc whilst out there?

Flights are £850-900
A full package is about £2800
I can't see myself averaging a £100 spend per day if I go out there and wing it, but as I say, maybe worth having a reputable operator to look after all the little incidentals.

Any tips and recommendations appreciated, thanks. I gather that I am getting close to the end of the season so I'd better get my skates on! Looking at going out in the last 10 days of August, to see me through to mid September.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Just do it!

I'm afraid my advice may be a little out of date (I went to Cuzco on a wing and a prayer in 1975!) before even Machu Picchu was on the tourist trail, but I imagine travelling on a budget is still a way to go. Check out some long distance bus and train journeys as well - other highlights I remember and visiting Lake Titicaca and Arequipa, but you better check Lonely Planet for the feasibility of those.

In reply to Blue Straggler:
We were there last year. You can definitely just go to Cuzco and wing it though if you're going at peak time you might want to sort Machu Picchu passes* in advance.

I have to say though, Cuzco wasn't my favourite bit of Peru by a long stretch - incredibly touristy and every 5 metres someone will offer you a massage.

Irrespective of anything else, I'd recommend setting aside a day to walk up to Saqsaywaman and then into the hills beyond. It's beautiful up there and we didn't see any other tourists about, even at the Balcon del Diablo which is supposed to be a famous beauty spot.

*Ignore advice on this from anyone who hasn't been in the past few years as a limited number of tickets per day are now available. Even more so if you want to go to the high bit that I can't remember the name of.

edit: also, check the status of the trains to the place where you head up to Machu Picchu from, when we were there they weren't running and it made logistics more difficult and more expensive, so much so that half our group decided to do other things instead.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Thanks Rob. Having done some long distance bus and train journeys in my time, I have a feeling that they have all lost whatever novelty and charm they may have had 40 years ago! I shall research further into this though

In reply to Lemony:

Thanks, yes I need to look into exactly when one should start sorting out Machu Picchu passes. Interesting about Cuzco. I thought maybe it might make a useful base from a logistics point of view. As I mentioned, I have not looked into this in much detail. I may yet decide that it's all a bit rushed, and use my annual leave for something else! :-/

In reply to Blue Straggler:

I was going to add that I took a bus last year from Cardiff to Geneva, again probably the first time I've caught a long distance bus since the 70s, and it was great!

In reply to Blue Straggler:
Was last in Peru ~5 years ago inc. Machu Picchu. I did it with Intrepid.

IMO ... I think you need to ask yourself "what do I want to get out of my trip?". Package trip with Exodus/Intrepid/Gap etc - nothing like winging it on your own. For me ... they are polar opposite - you will have totally different experiences. Depending on who you are - equally satisfying experiences or maybe not to your liking. But they will definitely be different - that's for sure.

w.r.t Peru - I can comment only on Intrepid. Pros - we saw and did a LOT. Lima, Pisco, Nazca, Arequipa, Colca Canyon, Puno, Cuzco, Machu Picchu, Rainforest. It was a trip of a lifetime - we'll never forget it. We were on a 4 months jolly and the Peru part with Intrepid lasted 24 days (I think). We were exhausted at the end of - had to take 2 days off just to get ourselves together before moving on. Biggest con - you can't pick your travel companions. We made some truly great friends and had some great experiences together. Were a few pr1cks along the way too - and you'll be stuck with them for 3 weeks. (Okay ... so after 3 weeks - you just don't speak to them. Not the end of the world.) Travel companions might also not be your age group. Could easily be anything in the range of gap year student from Australia -> retiree from Canada.

Our 4 month jolly was probably 50:50 package and making our own path. Both work. Would I do it again - yes. Would I use Intrepid again - yes.

My vote - go to Bolivia - go on your own. Can have way more fun in Bolivia. I bagged 6,088m Huayna Potosí out of La Paz with dedicated guide for £90. Mountain biking is, by any measure, world class/oustanding. Can ride single track from 5,500m -> 2,500m in a morning, have lunch and be shuttled back to 5,500m to do it all again in the afternoon. Salt flats are a fun 4 days.

Last comment: Machu Picchu was fun to trek to. But it was the treking that was the fun bit. The actual ruins at the end - were "okay" relative to the trek - but I enjoyed the treking way more. I certainly wouldn't bother going to see them by train. If you can - buy a ticket for Huayna Picchu in Cuzco. It's the big hill that sits behind the ruins. Well worth the trip to the top. Daily tickets are limited. Visit as early as humanly possible in the day i.e. 0700. 1200 will be a riot of tourists.

In reply to Stew99:


+lots

In reply to Stew99:

Sounds great, thanks for your detailed post. I am concerned about altitude though - I've never actually been above 3000m and last time I was at 3000m (heading to Gateau du Riz near Chamonix) I was JUST starting to feel it (although probably had not acclimatised, being too flippant to think that 3000m might need a day or two of acclimatisation)
I do get what you are saying about the actual Machu Picchu ruin; I read a good article about it yesterday...but if I am nearby I feel I have to the odd "box ticking" exercise. Having said that, I've already happily eschewed the Vatican, the Uffizi and the Doge's Palace on a whistlestop tour of Rome, Florence and Venice

In reply to Blue Straggler:
No worries.

Re: Altitude.

The companies selling the package trips bake that into their itineraries actually. (Wouldn't do them well to have piles of people leaving reviews about their trips saying they all got sick by going too high too quick). Many of them follow the same route looping counter clockwise through the same places I mentioned in original post. Reason for that is that they are taking you slowly higher day by day. Better still ... they might drive you up over a high pass one day to sleep lower that night. Puno/Lake Titicaca is actually higher than Cuzco - so they usually take you there first so that you feel fully acclimatized by the time you head down to Cuzco and out to Machu Piccu. If you fly into Cuzco you will enjoy your trip better if you give yourself 2/3 days to let your body catch up before you start to trek/adventure.

Altitude affects everyone differently. You are going to feel it in Cuzco. We were > 3,000 for ~8 weeks in that trip. My wife (that jolly was our mega-moon actually) never felt great ever. She felt bad when she first went high and then it receded to "I can survive this". For me I only got stronger the longer I spent high. By the time I reached Bolivia (~3/4 weeks-ish after heading >3,000m) - I could hike/bike as strong as I could at sea level. My wife took the drugs - I never did. My justification was (Not a medic - not saying I have this right) - if I take the drugs now and I get sick then I have no choice other than to descend. If I don't take the drugs when I don't need them then I have something to turn to if I do need to. NHS will subscribe them for you.

Bolivia is, for the most part, higher than Peru. Bottom of La Paz City is ~3,500m, top of the city is ~4,050m. Some BIG hills to climb in that city ... you will feel it your legs no matter how long you've been at altitude. (Ironically, unlike most cities ... the wealthy live at low level in La Paz and the poor on the upper ring. Fact of the day. )

Re: Machu Picchu

Maybe I was overly harsh. It is amazing. How many people it took to build that place, how they got it all there and why it was so suddenly abandoned ... quite amazing really. Maybe my point was - IMO its the journey, not the destination that you'll find yourself remembering years from now. Just unfortunate that they've stuck Machu Picchu at the end and not the middle of the trek.

You'll be fine though - crack on. Lovely country - lovely people. Good adventures. The affects of altitude will just be part of your adventure.

In reply to Stew99:
Thanks again, great and detailed stuff. Yes I was advised "fly to Cuzco and do very little for 3 days", in fact this was part of the "wing it" aspect - spend the "boring acclimatisation time" out there looking into your itinerary, at least gives something to do.

Interesting to hear that some people never quite acclimatise even over the duration of your trip! But as you say, it is part of the adventure. And again a reason to wing it. If (unlikely) I really can't cope then I just bugger off to the beaches in Chile or something
I am 41 and out of shape, I know already that the trekking will knock the stuffing out of me. It's part of the reason I want to go - give my body a wake-up call in some scenery that is worth the effort (not that I couldn't do such a think in the Lake District, mind you!)

In reply to Stew99:


+1 re the salar de uyuni + laguna colorado trip in bolivia. mind blowing. the high puna de atacama area is for my money the most amazing place i've been to in the world; indeed, it doesnt actually feel like earth, could easily pass for Mars it feels so alien.

was there 17 years ago now (oh god it cant be can it?) so the infrastructure may have improved since then. but then its bolivia, so maybe not.

inca trail was a massive tourist trap in 2005, i cant imagine its any less so; but still astounding, i loved it. also did the colca canyon trek from cabanaconde to andagua, based out of arequipa, as an antidote to the excessive numbers- booked via email beforehand with a local operator.

lima is worth a few days too, i really liked it, the energy of the place was amazing. pachacamac, museums, monastries, cathedral- all worth a visit, and lima is much more representative of what peru is about than cuzco.

In reply to Blue Straggler:


If scenery's your motivation, my suggestion would probably be either Bolivia or somewhere like Huaraz.

Huaraz is pretty easy to get to from Lima and the scenery is improbably spectacular. The archaeology is obviously less spectacular than Machu Picchu (but I found it incredibly fascinating) and the town itself isn't great but there's loads of walking, lots of acclimatiztion trails, even some good local climbing!

We did the Quilcayhuanca Cojup trek with these guys: http://www.peruvianandes.com/en/ taking some really inexperienced, fairly unfit friends with us and everyone had an amazing time.

Anyone who's thinking of that part of the world, I can't recommend that company enough, they bent over backwards to give us a great time.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

Re: Cuzco

It is touristy. You won't be getting many culture points staying in Cuzco. (There is a starbucks ... enough said) You could opt to head out in somewhere like sacred valley. No trapping of Cuzco - but might be more pleasant. (?)

Re: Beaches Chile

Be careful. Chile a long way from Cuzco. Not like Europe. If you try to go overland you could be on an (unpleasant?) bus for >1 day. Chile did annex a big chunk of Bolivia years ago (Chile never used to have a land border with Peru - that land border used to belong to Bolivia.) which makes getting into the country of Chile perhaps easy. But it is my understanding there will be few people/places/resorts in that piece of land close to Peru. Surfing is meant to be good in northern Chile. Internal flights anywhere in South America are expensive relative to Europe

Culturally quite different between Chile and Peru also. You don't get the same vibe. Significant income differences - you will feel it when you drive over the border.

(Probably best you check my facts on Chile there. The area I am referring to a part of the country we never visited. We visited Chile starting on in Santiago heading south.)

Re: Fitness

Contrary to what anyone tells you - you don't need to be fit to trek Machu Picchu. Assuming you're acclimatized - your fitness will affect only your enjoyment of the trek. You'll get to the end either way. It's a mainstream/openly public trek. They put something like 750 paying customers a day + guides/11 months of the year (1 month closed for annual repairs) every day without checking anyones fitness prior to start. If you really struggle ... they'll get a local to stick you on a donkey and ship down off the trail (for $$$). Get out running regularly 3/4 times a week for a couple of months before and you'll be fine - you can't really do anything else. You only need to carry your day pack. Rest carried for you. (You will see some shockers of people trekking to it.)

In reply to Stew99:

>Internal flights anywhere in South America are expensive relative to Europe

It's typically cheaper to fly to the US and then fly back... If you can square that with your environmental moral compass.

In reply to Blue Straggler:


sounds like a great chance to get some photography done, whilst you're taking it easy-ish?

In reply to Blue Straggler:

My advice would be not to book any excursions or trips before arriving in Cusco as you'll probably end up booking through an agent like GAP adventures who basically act as a middle man and take their cut thus inflating the price.
Once in Cusco there are literally 100's of travel agents who are offering pretty much the same trips i.e inca trail, nazca lines and if your're flexible with your dates, you can get a real bargain.
Also make sure you venture outside of cusco as it is somewhat of a tourist trap these days. Think Ambelside, llanberis, Fort William, same sort of vibe.
Peru is spectacular place and the people and food are amazing in every way.
Enjoy.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

re the altitude- it will have some impact, as others have said you cant tell til you're there. i think i acclimatize poorly, and did get headaches and nausea; but over the two trips did get to 5000m + each time (in a car on one occasion, not many places that you can do that...!) , and it didn't spoil the experience overall

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:


I was there in 2003 and would echo this sentiment. I nearly didn't go, as I was in my "I'm travelling, these people are just tourists" phase but am glad I did. Yes, it was busy, rammed in fact, and the walk on the final day to the sun gate was a bit like a conga line of incompetents and the un-fit but it was an incredible site, somehow the crowds seem to melt away and I was entranced. I don't think I would have felt the same having got the train.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

I'd fly to Lima, bus it down to Arequipa; from there train to Puno and up to MP from there; I did it on the 'local' train (with hens etc) but I think you can only travel now on the tourist train. You could explore the Lake Titicaca steamer, for the Fitzcarraldo-type connection. In short, I'd bin the organised stuff and travel independently; loads of fellow itinerants to hook up with & great times to follow. Fly back to Lima from Cuzco.

Lots of great information, suggestions and opinions here. Thanks and keep them coming! :-D

In reply to Blue Straggler:
I did the Machu Picchu trek with my sister sometime around the turn of the millennium, so not the most up to date.
We just arranged the trek after arriving in Cusco.
There was one col of over 4000m that I remember where she paid a wee lad to carry her rucksack for her. The trek leader was very knowledgeable and the arrival at the ruins was timed for early morning to make the most of the day. At the time you could walk up Huayna Picchu at will. I did this and would definitely recommend it.
I spent the next couple of weeks exploring the country on my own. I went to Huaraz and did a solo trek and a guided trip to Chavin de Huantar, both memorable.
I then headed north to Trujillo and visited a number of archaeological sites, along with Huanchaco for a look at the reed boats and a plate of ceviche. Not many tourists around.
Other than Lima (great museums), the other place I went to was Arequipa, a great town with a super climate. I went to see the petroglyphs of Toro Muerto (ace!). It can be a base for the Colca Canyon and I had a trip booked but unfortunately I couldn't make it (be careful who you trust!).
I travelled by long distance bus and really enjoyed the experience. You could choose your seat, there was a video, toilet, lunch provided and a game of bingo.
If I were able to go again I'd look to go further north to Cachapoyas, inland to the rain forest and some of the desert stuff down south like Nazca.
Do it, but organise things yourself once you are there. Cheaper and more flexible.
Jase

In reply to JCurrie:


We only got bingo in Argentina but maybe we travelled on the wrong company. We did however have a 20 hour journey on which they showed a continuous reel of Steven Segal films. It was one of the most punishing experiences of my life.

In reply to Blue Straggler:
We were there in 2005 . Loved Cuzco , the mixed Spanish colonial and Inca architecture were stunning. Huayna Picchu has great views and the climb offers a genuine feeling of exposure in parts. Definitely take a trip across the Salar de Uyuni and the Atacama , I imagine it's the closest you can get to an alien landscape without leaving Earth. If you're worried about fitness/altitude, do like the locals and buy some coca leaves at Cuzco market (you'll also need a lump of the black alkaline activator to mix with it) have a chew on the trail and marvel as your legs eat up the miles.
If you're flying back out of Lima and you like seafood try La Rosa Nautica in Miraflores. It's not cheap but its on a pier jutting into the Pacific and the cerviche and pisco sours were superb.

Edit: one other thing, we did the Inca Trail in December and there was a fair bit of rain, we found ponchos to be more practical than UK wet weather gear.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

I was out there last year leading a schools exped. We did the Salkantay trek to macchu picchu, very scenic, more rugged than Inca Trail with 4600m pass and amazing views of the south face of Salkantay. The trek brings you to Hidroelectrica which is a short train journey to Aguas Calientes, the tourist town below Macchu Picchu. Id recommend a guide who will supply a mule for your bag. Worth buying your pass for MP and train ticket back to Cuzco in advance. I suspect our guide will be fully booked with similar school trips, but a good hostel should be able to recommend someone. Enjoy!

In reply to Stichtplate:

Again, thanks, to you and all others! Will study my guidebook in earnest today / this evening and see about getting Bolivia onto the itinerary if it doesn't make it too crazy-rushed.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

One of the most memorable moments on my trip was I think the train journey south from Cuzco... the train stopped at a huge curve in the track that avoided the hot springs - Agua Caliente, a welcome dash of green on the Altiplano - and everyone piled out to go and get a quick wash. And then the train started up again, and all the passengers had to run like crazy to get back on board as the train started up again! It was like a scene out of a Western.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I see enough of that (minus the washing) at standard UK airports when they announce that it's the "final call" for your gate a good 30 minutes before scheduled take-off and loads of people run in a panic....only to find a queue of 100 people standing waiting for someone to even man the boarding desk :-D

In reply to Greenbanks:


I'd second that, you get to see what little of Lima you want to see, Arequipa is nice, colca canyon is next to it with condors, Puno has the poor man's Galapagos next to it and wine, and the sand dunes at huyacachina.

Cruz del Sur buses are way better than Megabus too.

My plan is always book the first nights accommodation in a hostel, then wing it depending on what happens and who you speak to.

Buy the lonely planet early so you can start digesting interesting things to see.

I prefer Bolivia to Peru too. The people seem nicer, everyone in Peru seems to be trying to get as much from you as possible and it didn't feel like that in Bolivia. They'll ask where you're from to know how much to charge. I'd always say Scottish, they'd ask what that meant and I'd say "like Israeli, but worse." You'll find this out trying to get into Lima from the airport...

In reply to Blue Straggler:

I visited in 2007, I did it all on the fly at the time, but it sounds like most advice I could give is out of date. However, I found the local tourist information (iperu) in Cusco very good. They helped me with local bus time tables to visit all the local stuff, and route plans, as well as with the train to MP. Maybe it's worth contacting them?
Regarding a Bolivia extension, a highlight for me was the barge crossing at Tiquina on the way to La Paz. A lowlight was negotiating with the unscrupulous agents in Uyuni to arrange the jeep tour across bolivia down to atacama. Neverytheless, despite the driver it was still a fantastic trip.

In reply to JuneBob:


I totally forgot about that until now. I recall something like everyone getting off the bus, the bus going on a barge and everyone having to make their own way across the river in little boats of 6/8 people at the time. Crazy!

We stayed up the road at Copacabana for a couple of nights before that. There is a good 3/4 day trek along Isla Del Sol. Boat out of Copacabana to the north end of the island at the start of day, then wander along the spine to the southern tip to catch the boat back at the end. Would recommend ... if only as a pleasant stop for a couple of nights living at 3,800m.

Recall the bus station at Puno on the transfer from Cuzco -> Copacabana being particular awful by any standards. I'm sure it'll be better now.

In reply to Blue Straggler:
Don't spend most of your trip on bus! If you only have 10 days there's lots to do in Cuzco, sacred valley, trekking, down into the rainforest in Manu or Pueto Maladondo, Puno, Arequipa. I would strongly recommend the rainforest.

Why you should definitely go to Machu Pichu even if it by train https://isitanexpedition.wordpress.com/2015/11/21/the-sacred-valley-part-2/

In reply to I booked through Journey Latin America several years back for a solo trip, they pre-booked internal travel and some excursions and left me to it otherwise - more expensive than winging it but made it a lot easier, without the downsides of an organised group trip. Once you've travelled across Peru it's as easy to carry on into Bolivia as head back to Lima. If you've already been up to the Canyon, then La Paz isn't as high. I had no idea what altitude sickness was then, but I felt like hell the first evening at the Canyon, after ascending rather rapidly, fortunately was OK by morning. Scares me to think about it knowing what I know now. The Salt desert is a bit of a trek but is amazing.

In reply to Blue Straggler:

I second what Jonnie said, get a hostel for the first night and then go from there, definately not one of those organised trips for me. Loki hostel was great when i was in Cuzco, a party hostel so depends what you want but i did some voluntary work though them too so pretty cool. All of Latin America is mega easy to travel though by bus, the seats even recline fully and become beds in Ejecutivo class. Busses are best in the more developed countries of which Peru is one but they all get you there and are cheap as chips.

This has got my head racing now, there is literally too much cool stuff to reccomend but the lonely planet and their online forum are brilliant starting points. If i would have to choose between the two though i think Bolivia narrowly wins. It's ace, silver mines, la paz, mountain biking down the death road and you can get to the Salar de Uyuni from there.

In reply to all:

This thread has done well to sell Bolivia to me, and a quick check on Skyscanner suggests that flying into Lima/Cuzco and out of La Paz (or vice versa) is quite feasible financially. Thanks!
Have not managed to peruse my Lonely Planet book this weekend, to be honest I am waiting for my manager to return from his holiday (tomorrow morning) so I can verify that I can get the annual leave required. If he says I can only have a continuous 2-week block because it is short notice, I might put this trip back to next year. I should have been planning this in February!

In reply to Blue Straggler:

2 weeks would be a challenge ... altitude, long bus rides etc. It's a monster flight to get down there. Flight alone is going to burn a day either end. Something like 12hrs from Schipol with KLM + connecting flights and transfers at both ends. (12 hrs on a plane = 4 full movies .... LONG flight)

In reply to Stew99:

The boss said yes to 3 weeks. It is on

In reply to Stew99:

Thats the problem... alot of the organised treks get you into MP by about 10ish.... by that time its heaving! You want to be there as the gates open and be able to look down on a deserted MP.

We didn't trek and would say it was still worth going.. probably wouldnt have said that if we didn't get there early doors.

In reply to Blue Straggler:
Hi all, just a quick update for anyone still interested. I have booked a return flight to Lima (Heathrow-Miami-Lima outbound, and Lima-Gatwick direct inbound, £800 with British Airways, a relative bargain)
I will have 3 weeks in South America. Nothing else planned yet!

I will start another thread about "what to pack". I have 23kg hold baggage allowance; not sure whether I need to plan for days carrying everything or if I'll always be able to leave "big bag" in a hostel or a minibus etc.

Landing Lima at 10.30pm so will pre-arrange a one-night stay there and look at moving on directly to Cuzco or La Paz ASAP.