UKC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-40731035

I simply can't express how I feel about this. There are no words.

I've drafted a letter to my MP; you might consider doing similar?

In reply to Deadeye:

Depressingly, this sort of thing is not a new low but an everyday event in Pakistan. The fact that they were prepared to go to the police and it therefore became news is actually encouraging. It's the sign of the first steps on a very long road, which will hopefully one day see women treated as fully human in Pakistan.

In reply to Deadeye:

How about giving some cash to one of the many charities supporting women in Pakistan? Begum Mai - mentioned in the article - might be a good place to start.

Probably more effective than writing to your MP.

In reply to Deadeye:

What's very interesting is this is how tribal humans have always settled disputes. Either with family blood feuds lasting generations. Or bizarre punishments that seem insane and illogical out of that tribal context. If you don't have stable state apparatus, this is the alternative.

In reply to Kemics:

Visiting punishment on the woman rather than the perpetrator because she's viewed as nothing more than a chattel is not "interesting". Sorry, but this has really got under my skin.

In reply to seankenny:

Agreed - and done. I couldn't find the link you mentioned, but Amnesty have a campaign focused on the issue.

In reply to Deadeye:


Out of curiosity, what have you asked your MP to do? Increase funding and support for for Pakistani domestic violence support services/charities or women's charities or foster connections between UK and Pakistani law enforcement or something else?

It's a horrible story but it isn't the story of Pakistan, it's of cruel people with an eye-for-an-eye mentality acting outside the law of their land, an attitude which is still widespread across the world including here at home as the response of people to the recent acid attack stories of late has illustrated horrifyingly.
jk

In reply to jkarran:

To raise with the consulate both in London and Islamabad, highlighting that this is a human rights violation and the Pakistan government needs to be seen to swiftly condemn what has happened and take criminal action against the decision makers.

Last time (the only other time) I have done this I got a very encouraging response about a girl who was going to receive ?100 lashes. The case had already been taken up and the sentence was stayed.

In reply to jkarran:



Can't think of a great many countries where you could expect the village council to order a punishment rape.

In reply to Deadeye:

Good on you.

This is well worth a read if you're interested in this sort of thing:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Other-Rooms-Wonders/dp/1408801043

In reply to Stichtplate:


Can't you? I can't think of many (any) where they have a constitutional right or responsibility but vigilante 'justice' is far from uncommon across the world, closer to home brutal vigilantism was the common in Northern Ireland into the 90's.
jk

In reply to Deadeye:

That makes me physically sick

In reply to jkarran:



I too can think of many countries where vigilante justice is visited upon the perceived transgressor, either by other individuals or criminal organisations.
Punishment rape , visited upon a wholly innocent third party, sanctioned by public body , is something else entirely.

In reply to Deadeye:

Well, this has put me in a foul mood for the rest of the morning.

Completely beyond my sphere of comprehension.

In reply to Stichtplate:

Not really, familial feuds are commonplace, the family or tribe becomes the target, not the transgressor. 'Punishment rape' is apparently not uncommon even among British street gangs today.

I shouldn't have to say this but I feel if I don't I'm going to get drawn into another stupid argument with you: I'm not defending the act or the principal, it's a horrible story but it isn't unique to that family, village or to Pakistan.
jk

In reply to jkarran:




I'm sorry if you see it as a stupid argument, but the distinction here that I find particularly abhorrent, is that the rape was sanctioned not by a family or a criminal gang but by the village council.

In reply to Stichtplate:


The story suggests that it was the 2 families arranged it between them, rather than a proper village council. Not that it makes much difference.

In reply to Stichtplate:


Here's a starter for ten:

http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2014/07/15/331347739/why-a-village...

In reply to Deadeye:

Agreed. It made me feel physically sick to read this. Will investigate charity and write to my MP. It's better than doing nothing but it's not much.

In reply to Mooncat:


That seems a vaguely hopeful point actually, and I'm not even sure if a village jirga has any real legal standing. Another positive from a horrendous story is that the mothers of the two girls who were both victims went to the police. That sounds like women protecting other women and ignoring the horrible family or tribal customs. The fact that lots of people have been arrested even sounds like the state is to some extent on the side of the women.

In reply to Deadeye:


Was that the reason though? Is it not maybe simply a case of an "eye-for-an-eye" that meant the daughter became the victim?

Surely if the family's son was of greater value than the daughter, then punishing him and not the daughter would have been preferable and higher retribution? They could have attacked him (chopped his balls, gouged out an eye, burnt him to death) and not her. But what they chose was an equal and opposite reaction. Clearly the fact that their daughter was raped in the first place, and that they were so incensed by this, is maybe a sign that daughters aren't seen as entirely disposable?

Put another way, if one family's son had been murdered, presumably a son from the murderers family would be sacrificed in response. Gender has a roll to play, but perhaps not in the way that is being assumed. As far as punishments go, it is very much "interesting" in this respect.

In reply to Stichtplate:

It's a sick and twisted religion in a world of sick and twisted religions. It's full of sick and twisted (mostly) men, who are intolerant, sexist, homophobic paedophiles that should be wiped from the face of the earth for the benefit of all human kind. These bastards are out to kill and subjugate the free world and we sell them the armaments to do it!

There you go Stitchplate et al, will that do.

In reply to Hugh J:

You don't do half measures do you.

In reply to Deadeye:

It is islam and Pakistan, what do you expect? Humanity, dignity? Don't be so naive.

In reply to jkarran:

This was not 'vigilante justice'. I think you will find the village council translates as a sharia court, and this was the ruling in keeping with the teaching of sharia. These village councils implementing sharia see it as a process of arbitration.

Sharia, coming to a street corner near you, soon!

In reply to David Martin:



I think it's more a case of the first victim bringing shame on the family by being raped and the family will probably struggle to find her a husband now as she is no longer a virgin.
So in the councils twisted logic because one family has been shamed the perpetrators family must be shamed too.
It's sick and twisted logic. Had the punishment rape been carried out using a stick on the lad who did the raping in the first place that would be true eye for an eye but it seems in that part of the world it's pretty much always the girls fault.

In reply to cragtaff:


So speaks our resident expert on South Asian Islamic jurisprudence.