UKC

Apologies in advance. I've had a good search and found loads of info on the cullin ridge but couldn't answers my specific questions.

What/how much protection should take?

How much water will I need (2 day trip assuming we can't find the springs)

Trying to keep things fairly minimal (no sleeping bag etc)

Thanks for any help

In reply to jmerrick21:
Rocks 3,4,6
2 smallest rockcentrics.
3 long slings
1 240cm sling

35m single rope long enough for all pitches and abseils.

Water??? how long's a piece of string?

Spring below TD Gap very obvious.
Water not far down at Beach Bannadich

If doing it 2 days then take enough for a good sleep or you'll be wasted the next day.

Writing a guide to ridge so message if need more info; just out on the hill but back later.

In reply to atrendall:

I agree with your recommendations.

Would add an abseil device - I found a small figure of eight was perfect and quick to use.

Also a 3/4 length karimat and lightweight sleeping bag (plus bivy bag) added a bit to the weight but made for a comfortable night's sleep as compared to my mate who didn't and had a cold sleepless night!

Don't bother with a stove, just easy to eat high energy food.

Water? We took 2 litres each and IT WAS NOTHING LIKE ENOUGH. Another time I would take at least 3 litres each and straws to suck water from cracks in the rock.

In reply to jmerrick21:

You'll find a lot of good info from Mike Lates here:

http://skyeguides.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/2007_Ridge_Download.pdf

In reply to atrendall:

I've done it with atrendall's list, works a treat. I think you could take one of the hexes out as I placed one at the top of Naismith's. I used a 50m half last time but if on a 35m rope I'd possibly add a rock 8 and use the Naismith belay low on the face.

Second that about add a sleeping bag, take out the stove in good conditions.

In reply to jmerrick21:

I don't know about you but I'd find it grim without a sleeping bag, gets down to 0C at night up there I would have thought. I'd also be thinking about what mistakes I might make on day 2 with potentially no sleep. However, if your forecast looks good enough I wouldn't bother with a bivi bag, but definitely take a mat. In the event it starts raining I'd be bailing anyway.

In reply to Mark Collins:

I'd planned to take a mat and bivi bag combined with a down jacket.

3lt is about what I was thinking if we couldn't find water.

Could do with specific recommendations for pro

In reply to jmerrick21:




Slings, a few nuts, something larger.

In reply to jmerrick21:

This is really good:

http://bobwightman.co.uk/climb/gear.php?p=skye_ridge_gear_tips

This is Moffs write up when we did it:

Cuillin Traverse Report and Tips

“Some useful info from a couple who made it but only rated their chances at 50:50 beforehand. Late 30's with 10+ years multipitch mountaineering experience mainly upto HS. Longest previous day trip Mount Whitney USA 7000ft ascent 22 mile walking round trip at altitude.

Preparation:
No running!! (not intended, but both of us had a variety of minor injuries, now I wonder if its worthwhile...)
Mountaineering trips concentrating on continuous movement over D/VD terrain with boots & rucksack. Days in the peak district climbing 15-30 routes in a session, S and below. Practice moving alpine style...familiarity... trust. No previous experience of the ridge other than scrambling on Scurr Dearg Am Basteir and Scurr Nan Gillean.
Lots of reading/sussing out (mostly Skye guide; Harvey map; Andy Hyslop and Gordon Stainforth). Much weighing & organising kit (seriously!)

Decided to take:
40m 9mm rope, 1kg rack (2 long extenders; 1 sling extender; hex 8; nuts 1,3,5,7,9; 2 long slings); 600gm down jacket for emergency warm clothing; map; compass; whistle; altimeter watch; space foil bag; penknife; one lightweight headtorch; minimal 1st aid kit (Ibruprofen taken every 6 hours to combat pain from old injuries; triangular bandage; steri-strips; cleaning swab; compeed)
then each:
alpine harness; belay plate & locking crab; lightweight boots/approach shoes; comfortable socks; comfortable underwear; two long sleeved thermals; lightweight pertex top; thick thermal trousers (power stretch); powerstretch balaclava; thinney gloves; 2 one litre bottles with measured high 5 isotronic drink powder; 4 x high 5 carbohydrate bars (slow burn, high carbohydrate).

17/6/01 forecast cold day, breezy, mostly sunny, drizzle & rain the previous day &night. Relatively dry on and off previously. No Midges!!! Almost perfect!!!!

Day before ensured good hydration and carbohrdrate loading; tried to get some protein but minimised fat; no beer!! Got up early, ate a high 5 protein recovery bar started taking pain killers. Ate breakfast. Started walking at 2:30 am from Glen Brittle up Coire Gurunda drinking 1 lire of isotonic. Filled all 4 bottles at the Loch. One with just water to drink with the energy bars. Got onto Ridge at 5:00; dumped bags walked to Garrs Bhein. Lynn slipped and nearly fell on a dodgy bypass of Scurr a Coire Bhigg (watch your step on those loose traverses!!) Started traverse at 6:00 am mostly following Andy Hyslop's running guide (except going over Sgurr a Coire Bhigg, avoiding Scurr Dubh and getting lost on the descent of Bidein). Tried to keep moving minimising breaks to a few minutes. Good progress to Scurr Banachdich (12 noon). Navigation problems on descents, tiredness & Steve's knee slowed progress thereafter. Descents of Sgurr A Mhadaidh fourth and first peaks, Bidein, An Caisteal were nastier than expected and cost a lot of time and energy. The climbing was
exposed requiring confidence but not too bad; the exception being the overhanging boulder problem onto Am Basteir (4c?) and the TD Gap is a bit of a thrutch, especially for the short. Bruach Na Frithe at 8.00pm; Nan Gillean at 9.30pm - fifteen and a half hours for the traverse. Limped down descent but speeded up again on the surprisingly good flatish path, arriving back at Sligachan at 12.15 am. Ate a High 5 protein recovery bar and rehydrated, (no booze! but only because we'd missed last orders).

What would we change??? Take 6 energy bars; knees!!!

Unused kit: down jacket; first aid kit other than pain killers; compass!; headtorch!!!

To conclude it was the most absorbing, fabulous mountaineering day of our lives so far. I think the key to our success was a mixture of luck and preparation (including keeping a very close eye on the advanced weather forecasts and deciding two days before to drive up and go for it; going as lightweight as we dare). On the day itself we were able to just concentrate on movement and the outstanding surroundings.

Time now to crack open the champagne!! Oh, one final tip from Steve - when you're soaking in the bath check your body for ticks!!! (and learn how to remove them properly if you don't want to waste the next night at your local casualty department)."

In reply to jmerrick21:


I'm not sure anyone has mentioned (though it's probably in Mike Lates's guide) dumping some water on the ridge and combining that with a recce before you embark on the traverse. Banachdich is a sensible spot as it's a good point to aim for on day one, and there are some decent bivis not too far away.

In reply to Solaris:
Wot!? Blow the onsight?

In reply to jmerrick21:

Fitness and confidence are key. Being fit means a one day jaunt plus less water, being confident means less stress and greater speed on the technical bits.

In reply to jmerrick21:

https://www.rockfax.com/climbing-guides/miniguides/skye-ridge/

In reply to MG:

Shocking, I know. And trying to answer the OP's question too. What is the world coming to?!

In reply to jmerrick21:

Don't carry 3 litres of water. You'll fail just out of exhaustion. Find the springs! Even if you have to go down a long way. I used to do 48 hour traverses with 2 nights on the ridge - easier for water. You can do all the middle section on just a litre (or maybe plus a half if you're in the bad habit of always drinking loads).

In reply to Andy Nisbet:


Yes, but you are a Cuillin Ridge Guide and know where the springs are - most of us ordinary mortals don't even know where WE are let alone the springs!

Seriously though it isn't a good habit to skimp on water. I'm sure it was doing this on the Ridge and again on one or two long rock epics in the Aips, and Southern Africa that triggered the downward slide into getting kidney stones. Once you've experienced that unbelievable pain you will never ever want to risk dehydration again!

In reply to Trangia:

There is no choice. You can't carry 3 litres of water and do the ridge. If you say you can't find the springs, then you need to learn where they are. The one below the TD gap is obvious - drink loads. Go downhill on the Glen Brittle side of the bealach between Sgurr Dearg and Sgurr Banachdich for about 10mins and you'll find some (if you need). Go down into Fionn Coire from just before the Basteir Tooth for 10mins and there's some. These ones are reliable even if it's dry weather. If it's been raining recently then there will be more.

In reply to Andy Nisbet:
As per our report we carried 2 litres each on the ridge. I think using some form of proper powder or tablet isotonic is the one of the best ways to avoid risks of dehydration. Ever since first using it on long days I've been amazed how much more effective it is for me.

In reply to Andy Nisbet:


You obviously haven't thought through the logic of that advice too well have you? Save energy by not carrying 3 litres of water - but then have to off route & go downhill to find water instead. Oh dear...

In reply to 99ster:

Knowing Andy a little, I suspect he has done the ridge a few more ties than you and has his system pretty dialled in.

In reply to 99ster:


Carrying 3kgs of water along the ridge will have a much bigger impact on your energy levels and balance whilst trying to move quickly on technical terrain, compared to leaving your kit on the ridge and descending 100m with a bottle/cup/straw; where you can drink loads and take a little with you.

In reply to Andy Nisbet:

While I can't claim your experience, I can say that I carried 3l this year, and managed fine so it's plainly not impossible.

Though we got to An Dorus (8.5 hours in) where we wanted to refill for our bivi and I still had a litre left. Painstaking refilling from the odd trickles that were there without descending a long way, though your options are better no doubt.

In reply to gav:

It's good to get into the habit of not drinking too much. I know that's against what most folk are indoctrinated into believing. But that's more for folk who don't have to carry it. If you do a lot of winter climbing, then it's handy not to need to drink. The first time I did the Ridge (on my own), I didn't drink at all, and it was hot, but I finished early because I was going light. I'm not saying that everyone will manage like that, but 3 litres is too much. As Summo says, these drinking places aren't far without a sack, and you can even take your more tired companion's bottle down and fill it.

In reply to Andy Nisbet:

If, as Trangia claims, you are a guide (but obviously well experienced in long mountain days out), what's your opinion about the supposed 'fact' that every unit mass you have on your feet equates to 5 times as much (depending on where you look) on your back?

Say, I usually train in the heaviest boots I can wear, then come the event, wear lighter footwear, every kilo my footwear weighs less in at, it's a free 5 litres of water to carry. And a good thing about water is it always gets lighter, boots on the other hand ...

In reply to Lusk:



I'm long retired, but used to guide folk along the Cuillin Ridge. If you want to wear trainers and carry 5 litres of water, feel free. That's the only real test.

What I do know is that many folk fail on the Ridge because they carry too much. Obviously if you're super fit, you can carry too much and get away with it. So I, and other guides, would feel how heavy clients' rucksacks were, and if I thought they would fail because of the weight, insist they take something out. Water was collected as high as possible, and 3 litres of water wasn't allowed. Light weight is absolutely crucial. Just like a mountain marathon.

In reply to Andy Nisbet:

Light is the way to go if you want to enjoy things. Why suffer carrying all the water for two days when there are permanent springs not too far off the ridge? If you really want to suffer, take gallons of water, wear huge boots and revel in your sufferfest. Personally, i always wear light approach shoes, a minimal rack, a rope no longer than necessary and the minimum of water and enjoy it every time whether over one day or two.

In reply to jmerrick21:

Take the sleeping bag. We started a balmy 18 degrees and all agreed to go light
But they took bags. I froze close to hypo. Overnight and had to bail from
Banachdich as a front came through at 3 degrees. My mates would have slept it out cosy and kushty in their lovely warm bags. The duvet jacket is not enough in what appeared to be good conditions.

In reply to Andy Nisbet:

We did a day traverse in may May and both carried ~3l. We walked up with empty bottles drinking as much as we could before setting off and on the walk in. We filled out bottles at Loch Ghrunda then carried the heavy sacks to the ridge where we left them for an out and back to Sgurr nan Eag and Gars Bheinn.

The sacks were heavy at first and I wondered if we'd taken too much. At Sgurr na Gillean we both had about 500-750ml left so could have taken a bit less but I think I'd rather have a little too much than have to start trying to find water especially on day traverse.

If I do it again I'll take 2.5l unless it's really really hot.

In reply to Fiona Reid:

And you didn't think about stopping and filling up? Even if you took 2 litres, you could pop down Fionn Coire (under Basteir Tooth) and get more if you needed. I think I've done it 3 times with clients or friends from Coire Ghrunnda to Fionn Coire with only a litre.

In reply to Andy Nisbet:

We did but decided that we'd rather not have to descend for water unless we really had to. We'd also chatted to a few mates who'd done day traverses recently and decided that 3l whilst a lot of weight at the start of the day would mean we'd not have issues with sore legs/tight hamstrings that both of us suffer from if we get dehydrated.

I reckon we could have done without 500ml or so but we felt we'd got the amount of food/water we carried were pretty much spot on. We never felt hungry or thirsty and our legs were fine - no tight/sore hamstrings.

If I re-did it I'd take a little less water and maybe omit the packet of emergency jelly babies - even with them we still had a little bit of food left. I'd also probably try to borrow a 40m rope as we lugged a 50m half as we don't own anything shorter.