/ OMG it's been a long wait but it's here!!

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paul__in_sheffield - on 05 Aug 2017
The most eagerly awaited guidebook ever arrived this morning via those top guys at V12.
Just had a quick flick through and it just looks fantastic, well done Mr Panton.
North Wales Bouldering weighs in just short of 700 pages, and as soon as I've finished the roofing work I've got dialled in this week, we'll be loading the mats into the camper van and heading west.
Back up on the roof now, but report back later after I've had a chance for a proper read.

Yes!!!
planetmarshall on 05 Aug 2017
In reply to paul__in_sheffield:

> The most eagerly awaited guidebook ever arrived this morning via those top guys at V12.

I was sure you meant Peak Limestone South.
Cusco - on 05 Aug 2017
In reply to planetmarshall:

No. He definitely meant South Devon.

North Wales and The Peak. Ha!

Someone will pipe up about Yorkshire next. Then Scotland may wade in somewhat late with some withering diatribe about anything south of the border.
paul__in_sheffield - on 05 Aug 2017
In reply to planetmarshall:

> I was sure you meant Peak Limestone South.

Yep, whenever I'm at the Climbing Works or the Foundry, all the talk is about Peak Limestone South. Can't wait.
Gary Gibson - on 05 Aug 2017
In reply to paul__in_sheffield:
Few months yet Paul.
petestack - on 05 Aug 2017
In reply to paul__in_sheffield:

> The most eagerly awaited guidebook ever

What, Highland Scrambles South?

In reply to Cusco:

> Then Scotland may wade in somewhat late with some withering diatribe about anything south of the border.

Well, what would I want with North Wales Bouldering? ;-)
string arms - on 05 Aug 2017
In reply to petestack:
It's a huge tome of a guide and a real tribute to simon's mammoth hard work. Credit where it is due lads. There's enough here to last a lifetime.
pebbles - on 05 Aug 2017
In reply to planetmarshall:

Na, a reissued Climbing in North Eastern England guide surely
Lusk - on 06 Aug 2017
In reply to paul__in_sheffield:

Has it got any cartoons in it?
From an original Peak bouldering guide, one of the funniest things I've seen is the pic of a bloke with his girlie fondling looking up into his eyes, and he says "I wonder if the low traverse at Burbage is dry?"
Niall_H - on 06 Aug 2017
In reply to paul__in_sheffield:

Link?

(Just Googling for "North Wales Bouldering Panton" gets me a bunch of "this product is no longer available" links)
ads.ukclimbing.com
helix - on 06 Aug 2017
Stop teasing, you guys, most of the U.K., in fact the world, is drooling at the prospect of the new.....









Southern Sandstone Rockfax!

stp - on 06 Aug 2017
In reply to Lusk:

Brilliant.
paul__in_sheffield - on 06 Aug 2017
In reply to Niall_H:

> Link?

> (Just Googling for "North Wales Bouldering Panton" gets me a bunch of "this product is no longer available" links)

Mrs Paul_in_Sheffield had a chat with the V12 guys last time we were in and it arrived by courier yesterday. I guess that means that stock has arrived at the shop for distribution. Probably going out to pre orders first I guess.
We both had a chance to give it a good read, and it is a real credit to the production team, and chock full of great photos. Probably means that I've missed out on cashing in on my old guide ;-( Given the size of the guide, it'll probably get photographed onto iPhone and left in the van on trips to the boulders. GPS refs for parking and what looks to be a well thought out set of access maps for each set of boulders.

Not a lot in here below Font 5. The coverage of the area means there's loads to go at in most weather conditions. Interestingly Ffestiniog and Beddgelert Forest are on the cards as soon as I've finished reroofing the house!
All in all, worth waiting 14 or so years for.
Offwidth - on 06 Aug 2017
In reply to paul__in_sheffield:

"Not a lot in here below Font 5"....presumably the grades are sensible and if so that's disappointing in terms of lingering elitism ( definitive guides should provide a service to all boulderers and really good lower grade problems are there) and from a commercial perspective... (just look where the crowds are at Font ...and indoors).
snoop6060 - on 06 Aug 2017
In reply to paul__in_sheffield:

Pictures or it didn't happen. No way I'm believing this without proof.
paul__in_sheffield - on 06 Aug 2017
In reply to Offwidth:
> "Not a lot in here below Font 5"....presumably the grades are sensible and if so that's disappointing in terms of lingering elitism ( definitive guides should provide a service to all boulderers and really good lower grade problems are there) and from a commercial perspective... (just look where the crowds are at Font ...and indoors).

Hi Steve,
Wrt grades, it's a game of two halfs here. The established bouldering grades are on the whole spot on, and there's a whole raft of stuff from the huge NW bouldering 'explosion' which haven't had enough ascents to reach consensus. This has been in the upper grades though mostly, so the 5s and 6s are in the right ball park. Quite often.
I think you're jumping the gun with 'elitism' for a number of reasons. First, you're conflating definitive with comprehensive. A definitive guide doesn't have to have all the routes in. The Font 5&6 guide is as definitive as you can get, but doesn't have 7&8s. Obviously.
Second, try to document sub 5s in an area like NW and you'll need a trailer to carry the guide. It's difficult to walk anywhere without falling over easy rock, the best strategy here is to buy the guide, go and look around the documented stuff and there's loads to do, plus loads to aspire to.
I'm not sure about the commercial case as it was suggested to me that the first print run will mostly go in pre orders. FYI wrt indoors (maybe Graeme could give an owners perspective, the bulk of activity on my local bouldering wall for regulars is yellow, black, wasp, murple and red (guess the wall) all F6 and above.
Paul
Post edited at 11:41
Offwidth - on 06 Aug 2017
In reply to paul__in_sheffield:
I still see the bulk of outdoor bouldering in the UK as inadvertently elitist compared to what I see and enjoy at font. This book will be no worse than most in that respect but I'd like to see things change. Elitism removes fun (especially family fun) and it encourages ego and ego brings bad practice .. from hold enhancement through overbrushing to excessive chalk. Popular boulder problems on grit have suffered heavily since 1990 whilst the bulk of routes have largely remained the same despite the growing problem of cam damaged rock. Grit is much harder than Font sandstone (and we don't have to deal with the devil's combination of pof and chalk) so we have fewer excuses for the level of damage.

I started out bouldering pre mats and pre guides in the late 80's as my climbing friends and I enjoyed problems, especially those in the route notes of Peak gritstone and the Yorkshire micro-routes and even occasional explicit descriptions like the Caley Benign Bumbles (and the odd Masterful Manoeuvre). Allen Williams's peak guide was gold dust to us when it came out in 94: information with real soul. When he later linked with Rockfax the guide was amazing for pure utility and information density, especially at lower grades, but it rather lost the soul. Most boulderers want information and volume in the lower grades unlike dedicated f7 punters or f8 wads.

Hence on commercial issues this book should off course sell out but I'm pretty sure when I get a copy I'd liked to have seen a bigger print run of a slightly smaller book with a slightly better range of problems and with web supplements for the local obscurists. Something that would have been less elitist and would have sold much better. On that, and apologies now for moving away from N Wales where I've only pottered to an area I know very well, the only sensible reasons more people buy Rockfax over VG in the Peak is either the much wider range at lower grades and greater information density (or the better robustness .....not that much better...some of my Rockfax covers peeled off pretty quickly as the books are getting a bit thick for the spine glue). If its really about maps and overview information, in the internet age, a huge number of Rockfax favouring boulderers must be rather dim. The latest VG guide in contrast is almost a work of art and the careful crafting should really inspire true afficionados. It also no longer ignores the Benign Bumbles in that. The latest Rockfax is still way better for volume for lower grade boulderers (even if I preferred Allen's first Rockfax for information density) and for that alone I'd recommend it for them (if they don't want the full set of definitives) but with some minor provisos like dumb grades for some newly included lower grade highballs, not quite as well checked in general (especially at lower grades where soft touches and sandbags are a little too common where you would least want them), and the Woolpacks 'saga'.

One final point: I can't recall the last time I though a new guide was poor and they are all excellent value for money given the huge efforts made that could never be even close to being recovered from book sales. The cost of a guidebook for one trip, is nearly always less than the cost of the drive and beer afterwards. My criticisms are usually about minor tweaks I'd like to see. All guides sell much less well than they deserve and that shows as a tribe of climbers or boulderers we are too mean by half.
Post edited at 13:18
Offwidth - on 06 Aug 2017
In reply to paul__in_sheffield:

I also forgot to say you ignored the mini works and on my not infrequent visits to the main room (only been to the mini works once to drink wine!) the volume was high from the lowest grades gradually tailing off to the top graded circuits. This is the best indoor bouldering in Sheffield: a city of punter and wad boulderers.
snoop6060 - on 06 Aug 2017
In reply to paul__in_sheffield:
£37?!

I know this has to cover 12 years of Mr Pantons hard work, but wowzers! Is this the most expensive guide ever for any UK area? Surely is. Still getting a copy mind .

The Neymar of guides. Alan will be thinking shit, if they can do it, then so can I.
Post edited at 19:16
planetmarshall on 06 Aug 2017
In reply to snoop6060:

> £37?!

> I know this has to cover 12 years of Mr Pantons hard work, but wowzers! Is this the most expensive guide ever for any UK area? Surely is. Still getting a copy mind .

Comparitively, less than the price of a cam and a third the price of a pair of top flight shoes. If the guide is worth the hype then it's a bargain.
ads.ukclimbing.com
paul__in_sheffield - on 06 Aug 2017
In reply to snoop6060:

> Pictures or it didn't happen. No way I'm believing this without proof.

https://www.cordee.co.uk/North-Wales-Bouldering-det-15-95-95-14429.html
birdie num num - on 06 Aug 2017
In reply to paul__in_sheffield:

Climbing guides are like cookery books, 90 percent of the content are beyond my capabilities. Nice pictures though
Michael Gordon - on 07 Aug 2017
In reply to planetmarshall:

It is very expensive when you compare it to other guide books though (typically £10 less)
snoop6060 - on 07 Aug 2017
In reply to planetmarshall:

A cam doesn't get trashed and need reinforcing with duct tape the first time it leaves my house tho

Not saying it's not worth 37quid just pointing out its surely the most expensive local guide ever produced. I gather Pete Robin's image rights come with a hefty premium. Pretty sure I saw him drive by me down the pass in hot pink Lamborghini just yesterday.
remus - on 07 Aug 2017
In reply to snoop6060:

Similar price to recent rockfax guides which are in the £30-35 range https://www.rockfax.com/

Given how beautifully put together the ground up guides are and how much time and effort goes in to a book like this I think it's worth it.
Offwidth - on 07 Aug 2017
In reply to remus:

Proving my point above exactly. The words should be thank goodness they are not selling themselves as short as much as other guidebooks do for such a huge volume. In practice though the price point may prove too high for the meaness of many of our fellow travellers. A weekend trip to North Wales costs me about £100 if I cost at 0.30p per mile (about the standard rate if not to make a loss on wear and tear) including camping fees but not beer or food. £50 each for 2 and £18 each for the book (which will of course last many trips).
ianstevens - on 07 Aug 2017
In reply to planetmarshall:

> Comparitively, less than the price of a cam and a third the price of a pair of top flight shoes. If the guide is worth the hype then it's a bargain.

It's also the size of an Argos catalogue
doylo - on 07 Aug 2017
The price seems about right when you consider its 667 pages.

ianstevens - on 07 Aug 2017
In reply to doylo:

agreed. getting one myself this arvo, although will miss the welsh half as per the old guide!

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