/ A lesser palmares than Froome?

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Mike Highbury - on 07 Aug 2017
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/40848355

I adored this. The BBC headline reduces his palmares to a couple of victories in the TdeF, which reduces GT racing to a procession round France with your pals and none of that nasty stuff like snowdrifts and 30% hills the Spring (and Autumn, now).

But I'll live, I've still got Gatlin, Farah and Ayana to cheer for.
Pedro50 on 07 Aug 2017
In reply to Mike Highbury:

From your link:
Contador won seven Grand Tour titles and was awarded the prestigious Velo d'Or, voted for by journalists, a record four times.
Only Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault, Jacques Anquetil, Felice Gimondi and Vincenzo Nibali have also won all three Grand Tours.
Contador's Grand Tour wins
Tour de France: 2007, 2009
Vuelta a Espana: 2008, 2012, 2014
Giro d'Italia: 2008, 2015
Bob Hughes - on 07 Aug 2017
In reply to Pedro50:

Even that underplays it a bit. He is one of only six to win the tour, the giró and the vuelta, was the youngest to do all three, and there's only him and the badger who have won all three more than once.
Stuart en Écosse - on 07 Aug 2017
In reply to Bob Hughes:

Yep. I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt over steakgate. He's been one of my favourites for years. No deference or respect shown to Pharmstrong from the off and how many sportsmen can break a leg, get back on their bike and carry on for a while before deciding to call it a day, or win the Giro after a double shoulder dislocation? Nails. He has pulled a few left-handed moves in his time but all round he's displayed a lot of class and such distinctive style over his career. Definitely not on top form over the past while but cycling is poorer for his retirement.
Toby_W on 07 Aug 2017
In reply to Mike Highbury:

Serial doper, good riddance.

Cheers

Toby

Chris the Tall - on 07 Aug 2017
In reply to Mike Highbury:

So what would your headline be ? Bear in mind this is a sport website, and not a cycling specific one
Chris the Tall - on 07 Aug 2017
In reply to Stuart en Écosse:

Always felt it was wrong to sanction him for such a tiny level of Clen. Not exactly unfair or unlucky - I don't believe the beef story - but given that it is possible to eat contaminated beef, due to farming practices in certain countries, then their should be a threshold. Of course it is almost certain the clen came via a blood bag, but that can't be proven.

Yes he was a great rider who lit up races, but comparison of his performance pre and post ban do tell a story
Mike Highbury - on 08 Aug 2017
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> Yes he was a great rider who lit up races, but comparison of his performance pre and post ban do tell a story

He's no Justin Gatlin, is he?
Mike Highbury - on 08 Aug 2017
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> So what would your headline be ? Bear in mind this is a sport website, and not a cycling specific one

"'Serial doper retires', opines a hobby cyclist."
DubyaJamesDubya - on 08 Aug 2017
In reply to Mike Highbury:


> I adored this. The BBC headline reduces his palmares to a couple of victories in the TdeF, which reduces GT racing to a procession round France with your pals and none of that nasty stuff like snowdrifts and 30% hills the Spring (and Autumn, now).

> But I'll live, I've still got Gatlin, Farah and Ayana to cheer for.

They do what most non-cycling related sites would do: Pick on the only race they think anyone outside of cycling fans will have heard of.
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Sir Chasm - on 08 Aug 2017
In reply to Mike Highbury:

> "'Serial doper retires', opines a hobby cyclist."

Well he was banned and had titles stripped for doping, but perhaps he only doped once. And while some people might excuse him a small amount of clenbuterol, the plasticisers in his blood are harder to explain as coming from a juicy steak.
Chris the Tall - on 08 Aug 2017
In reply to Mike Highbury:

Neither showed any contrition for their past transgressions, so there's a similarity there. And of course Gaitlin's winning time was relatively slow - slower than he did pre-ban, so yes there's another similarity.

I don't like this black and white view of dopers, none of us know the full story, the temptations, the pressures. But neither do I like the Paul Kimmage approach- they'll all cheats, or at least all the winners are, so the only difference is that some haven't been caught yet.
Toby_W on 08 Aug 2017
In reply to Sir Chasm:

Quite, and let's not forget operation Puerto and all that blood labelled with his initials. Sorry I don't share your high opinion of him Mike but he appealed and appealed with all that nonsense when he was finally caught and it was only a technicality because the plasticiser test isn't sanctioned that he got away with this and left doubt in the minds of some very lovely and trusting people, and fanboys.
It's a shame because he is a great rider.

Cheers

Toby

Mike Highbury - on 08 Aug 2017
In reply to Toby_W:
> ... Sorry I don't share your high opinion of him Mike .... It's a shame because he is a great rider.

I don't pretend to write the most accessible posts, don't want to either, but this one-dimensional thread following my initial post is a bit intellectually bleak.
abr1966 - on 08 Aug 2017
In reply to Toby_W:

> Quite, and let's not forget operation Puerto and all that blood labelled with his initials. Sorry I don't share your high opinion of him Mike but he appealed and appealed with all that nonsense when he was finally caught and it was only a technicality because the plasticiser test isn't sanctioned that he got away with this and left doubt in the minds of some very lovely and trusting people, and fanboys.

> It's a shame because he is a great rider.

> Cheers

> Toby


+1 to this.
It's a real shame as he is an aggressive rider, good to watch etc but at the end of the day his performances have dropped a notch since he stopped eating steak and that tarnishes the whole thing for me. I'm sure he was only doing what a lot of others did but I do believe he was a doper...
Chris the Tall - on 08 Aug 2017
In reply to Mike Highbury:

> I don't pretend to write the most accessible posts, don't want to either, but this one-dimensional thread following my initial post is a bit intellectually bleak.

Rubbish

Various contributors have mentioned his record in grand tours (not just in the TdF), his position amongst the greats, his attacking style and his doping- so hardly one dimensional.

As to being intellectually bleak, have your snide remarks enlightened anyone?
carnie - on 08 Aug 2017
In reply to Mike Highbury:
He was a great rider with an attacking flair, a proper riders rider, yes he failed a dope test but he was no dirtier than any of the others including those that haven't yet been caught. I'd certainly rather watch contador and the schlecks smashing ten shades out of each other than the recent asinine sky trains of the past few years, it may have been high octane fueled but at least it was interesting!
Post edited at 10:03
Toby_W on 08 Aug 2017
In reply to carnie:

An interesting comment, is it the lack of drugs now or modern tech, did you see (was it Boardman) commenting that they should ban power meters? I'd add heart rate to this too. Race on feel, you don't see this tech in any other endurance sport in quite the same way. Fine for training but not racing.

Cheers

Toby
Greasy Prusiks on 08 Aug 2017
In reply to carnie:

In my opinion the 2010 tour was the best this century.
carnie - on 08 Aug 2017
In reply to Toby_W: Well power meters in races certainly don't help, I'm pretty certain it's not a lack drugs, more a change in type and usage of drugs coupled with power meters. Less certain banning heart rate monitors would make that much difference due to the time lag etc hence why power meters became the training aid of choice.

Certainly getting rid of power meters and radios along with shorter stages and or smaller teams would make for more interesting racing
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Chris the Tall - on 08 Aug 2017
In reply to Toby_W:

Can you put the genie back in the bottle ?

Bertie was an old-school rider in more ways than one, but as exciting as his attacking was, it is also very inefficient. And whilst it may animate the race, the attacker is rarely the beneficary. Best days racing last year was that short stage in the Vuelta (13?) where he attacked and caught Froome off guard, but it was Quintana who benefited.

I'm not convinced the likes of Froome and Dumuolin are as reliant on power meters as is suggested (and I agree HR monitors would have to go as well) - they are just well trained in efficient climbing.

As with race radios and better info on road profiles, it's simply a case that more information is available and the teams that make better use of it succeed. Stopping the flow of that information is never going to easy.
Chris the Tall - on 08 Aug 2017
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

> In my opinion the 2010 tour was the best this century.

Well the outcome was certainly in doubt for a long time - both during the race and after it. And in the end Contador's margin was exactly the same as gained thanks to 'chaingate' - though I think he had every right to ride on, especially as Schleck was on the attack when he dropped his chain. But I think Sastre's win in 2008 was a better race, won in fine style on Alpe d'huez.
Greasy Prusiks on 09 Aug 2017
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Sastres win was undoubtedly proper class, very well deserved.

Personally I enjoyed 2010 more (probably because I was in France for most of it) but 08 is a close second.

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