/ Regrade required?

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herman0055 - on 08 Aug 2017
Just did Iconoclast HVS 5a pro is near none existent until5/6 metre unless you use a crack on another route and extend. The best hold is coming off which would lead in an ijury if it comes off. Surely the route needs to be re-graded by someone or at least the guidebook be updated to prevent less experience climbers getting injured. Of course the response from UKC by some will be Man Up, dry your eyes etc but seriously go climb it then think this is your first lead at the grade and then think is it the right grade. U.K. Grading is meant to warn you of the dangers eg HVS 4c verse HVS 5b. On paper this should be relatively safe route. I don't think it is, any more.
taddersandbadger - on 08 Aug 2017
In reply to herman0055:

Is the same Iconoclast Iconoclast (HVS 5a) that has the this warning on the ukc crag listings?

"****NOTE**** A large chunk of this has fallen down at about 2-3m height as of 19/04/2011. Its changed the route significantly and looks pretty unstable."


The reason I ask is that there quite a few routes by this name.
taddersandbadger - on 08 Aug 2017
In reply to herman0055:
I can see where you are coming from here but, grades are a fluid thing. Routes can and do change all the time and the guides, especially printed ones are "out of date" the minute they are published. I treat them as an "invite to climb" and will augment this info by what I find online (especially if going to a crag I have not been to before) and most importantly with some route reading from the ground before I set off. I know not all routes lend themselves to this, but if you can spot the first few placements and rests especially in the "ground fall zone" before you set off, it's a good start, if not then treat with caution......
Post edited at 18:06
Fiona Reid - on 08 Aug 2017
In reply to taddersandbadger:
Yes, it's Iconoclast at Rosyth Quarry that's being referred to. Having possibly one of the last people to climb it before it fell down I consider myself rather lucky. I also know the person who it fell to bits on and I know he updated the comments on the route on UKC to try and warn folk.

Guidebooks are just guides and have information that's current when they were written/published. Rock changes with time. The cracks we use for gear are weakness in the rock and thus by their very nature can grow, rock can fall off etc.

The dolerite quarries in the central belt all have a fair bit of loose rock and lots of require care. Lots of the crags seem to be held together with mud! Personally the only HVS routes at Rosyth I'll go near are The Waullie and Broken Pillar (and bits of that are loose too!).
Post edited at 21:45
Fiona Reid - on 09 Aug 2017
In reply to herman0055:

Re regrading, you could drop the SMC New Routes Editor an email, see http://www.smc.org.uk/new-routes for contact details and ask if an update can go in the next list of new routes etc. The list is usually used for new routes but climbs that have changed significantly, corrections to route descriptions grades etc often get included.

Iconoclast fell to bits on August 18th 2010. There was a forum message about it at the time: https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=421792&v=1#x5987687
herman0055 - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to taddersandbadger:

Thanks for your view and agree that always good to spot good pro and rests before setting off if possible. I like the invite to climb theory and of course climbers do enter a contract of responsibility for their own actions with a handful of risk of accidents due to circumstances out of their control. I think the issues is that the written guide is slow to react to changes and the write up not very descriptive which would not warn the less experienced of the real danger. Thanks
herman0055 - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Fiona Reid:

Fiona many thanks for the comments and thank you for the links and the idea of dropping the editor a note which I will do. Of course that will take time so just hope that people use UKC so they are aware of the increased risk instead of attempting to climb something that is not safe. Thanks
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herman0055 - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Fiona Reid:

The link is good although I think it might be helpful to include that the obvious good hold enroute to the crux is loose and thee is no pro upto that point.
Fiona Reid - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to herman0055:

You can update the notes on the climb yourself. if you are logged into UKC go to the entry for Iconoclast, e.g. Iconoclast (HVS 5a)

Now click on the "Edit Climb" button which should be at the top right of the page. You'll then get the existing notes in a box and can edit/ add to them as you wish. The crag moderator punkpunk will need to approve changes before they go live.

Hope that helps

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