/ Would you sue a pedestrian?

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Chris Harris - on 10 Aug 2017
If a pedestrian stepped into the road without looking & knocked you off your bike, would you consider legal redress?

Fredt on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Chris Harris:
I doubt you'd have a case, and the pedestrian may have a better case against you. You're the road user, you should be prepared for such an eventuality, as would a car driver.

When I learned to drive, I was told pedestrians had right of way, wherever, - except on motorways or where they shouldn't be.
Post edited at 13:36
Chris the Tall - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Fredt:

> I doubt you'd have a case, and the pedestrian may have a better case against you. You're the road user, you should be prepared for such an eventuality, as would a car driver.

Rubbish

It's exactly the same as someone opening a car door - however good you are at anticipating events, road layouts usually do not give you enough space to manoeuvre if your path is suddenly blocked

Legally though, it might be very hard to prove
MG - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Chris the Tall:

I assume you apply the same thinking to cyclists - you regard it as the cyclist's fault if they suddenly pull out in to a car's path?
Chris the Tall - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to MG:

Yes
MG - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Glad your thinking has moved on.
Neil Williams - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Fredt:

> When I learned to drive, I was told pedestrians had right of way, wherever, - except on motorways or where they shouldn't be.

Having right of way does not allow them to act negligently, such as stepping into the road immediately in front of a vehicle which is moving at a speed whereby there is no way it could stop in time.
Chris the Tall - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to MG:

Go on then, find the example where I have said otherwise
MG - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Endless examples. Here you managed to blame a stationary car for a collision between a cyclist and another car.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=663631
LastBoyScout on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Fredt:

The pedestrian still has a duty of care to make sure they are not causing a hazard to any other road user. If they were already crossing the road before you came along, then they would have a case against you. If they step straight off the kerb without looking or any indication that they might cross, then it will be their fault.

Whether I considered legal redress would depend on my injuries and damage to my bike.

I've nearly been knocked off my bike several times by pedestrians stepping straight off the kerb without bothering to look - in one case, it was a mother that pushed a pushchair out in front of me on a clear, straight road! I've also nearly been knocked off my motorbike by someone running straight into a bus lane and straight into me - I nearly ended up in a head-on with traffic coming the other way as a result.
Chris the Tall - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to MG:
Not true - I didn't blame the car at all
Post edited at 14:21
MG - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Chris the Tall:

> Not true - I didn't blame the car at all

Yes, you did! "All three, though not necessarily to the same degree"
Trangia on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to LastBoyScout:
> I've nearly been knocked off my bike several times by pedestrians stepping straight off the kerb without bothering to look - in one case, it was a mother that pushed a pushchair out in front of me on a clear, straight road!

One of the problems is lack of sound. Still doesn't excuse the pedestrian for failing to look, but because there is no engine noise, that can be one reason why pedestrians sometimes do this.

For this very reason I think that with the advent of more and more electric cars, incidents of pedestrians stepping out in front of them will increase.
Post edited at 14:31
balmybaldwin - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to MG:

> Endless examples. Here you managed to blame a stationary car for a collision between a cyclist and another car.


Seriously you think there is something wrong with Chris' reply in that thread? He is absolutely spot on
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Chris the Tall - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to MG:

> Yes, you did! "All three, though not necessarily to the same degree"

No, I didn't blame the car. I did say the driver of the car bore some degree of responsibility

Now then, are you going to claim that just because a car is stationary that it's driver can pose no threat to a cyclist's safety?
MG - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to balmybaldwin:

> Seriously you think there is something wrong with Chris' reply in that thread? He is absolutely spot on

Apparently it's a fraud and he didn't write it.

But anyway, yes I do. I don't see how you can blame a car that is, entirely legally and in accordance with HWC, stationary, for an accident between a bike and another car.
tony on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to MG and Chris the Tall:
Would you two take your playground squabbles about an old thread elsewhere. Feel free to contribute usefully to the OP.

Whether I'd sue a pedestrian would depend on the damage to me and my bike, and on the context. If a pedestrian caused me life-changing injuries as a result of their negligence, then yes, I would sue. If I grazed a knee and the paintwork on my bike got a bit scratched, I probably wouldn't.

Trangia on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to tony:



> Whether I'd sue a pedestrian would depend on the damage to me and my bike, and on the context. If a pedestrian caused me life-changing injuries as a result of their negligence, then yes, I would sue.

Wouldn't it also depend on that pedestrian's ability to pay compensation? Pedestrians don't carry third party insurance, so the hassle and cost of pursuing a claim, and even if you got judgement in your favour, actually collecting any compensation, probably isn't worth it.

MG - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to tony:

Sorry, Dad. Would I sue - probably not unless it was a very rich pedestrian.
JD19081986 - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Chris Harris:

Depends on the Go-Pro footage...and how much the Daily Mail offered me for the story first.
Jim C - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Trangia:

> One of the problems is lack of sound. Still doesn't excuse the pedestrian for failing to look, but because there is no engine noise, that can be one reason why pedestrians sometimes do this.

Or as was filmed and shown on TVs recently, people looking down on mobiles phones, and drivers stopping to prevent collisions, often the pedestrians filmed did not look up, we're not aware of the vehicle or the fact that they were filmed.

If I was knocked off and badly injured or my bike damaged, yes I would expect to be compensated, jaywalking is already against the law in some countries, just not here (as yet) and this does not work favour motorists or cyclists , even if they are careful, they may end up injured or out of pocket due to no fault of their own. Cameras are perhaps the only protection you have as a motorist or cyclist.
Chris the Tall - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to tony:

He started it
Ramblin dave - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Trangia:

> One of the problems is lack of sound. Still doesn't excuse the pedestrian for failing to look, but because there is no engine noise, that can be one reason why pedestrians sometimes do this.

This is why I've cultivated a finely tuned array of squeaks, clanks and rattles to the point that my bike can be heard coming from half a mile away.


tony on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Trangia:

> Wouldn't it also depend on that pedestrian's ability to pay compensation? Pedestrians don't carry third party insurance, so the hassle and cost of pursuing a claim, and even if you got judgement in your favour, actually collecting any compensation, probably isn't worth it.

Yup, fair point. I do have have insurance that covers the cost of personal injury, so I'd hope that the hassle and cost would be borne by my insurer. But there must be cases where people are sued without insurance?
deepsoup - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Trangia:
> Pedestrians don't carry third party insurance..

Actually a great many of them do. My household insurance gives me third-party cover as a pedestrian or cyclist, and it's not at all unusual.
Trangia on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Ramblin dave:
Very squeaky brakes are excellent.

I was walking down a fairly steep part of the South Downs Way yesterday, which is at that point is a bridleway open to pedestrians, cyclists and horses. I hadn't seen a soul for a good half hour when suddenly without any warning a guy on a mountain bike passed me very closely going fast. It made me jump because I hadn't heard any warning from behind no shout, no bell, no rattling and no squeaky brakes.

So a belated plea to all you cyclists, please please give ample warning of your approach when you are coming up behind a pedestrian on a shared path - you don't want to go giving an old guy a heart attack now do you? A bell ding aligning is the best and certainly from my point of view appreciated.
Post edited at 15:24
Trangia on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to deepsoup:

> Actually a great many of them do. My household insurance gives me third-party cover as a pedestrian or cyclist, and it's not at all unusual.

That's interesting. Does that cover just you, or also members of your household?
hokkyokusei - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Trangia:

> So a belated plea to all you cyclists, please please give ample warning of your approach when you are coming up behind a pedestrian on a shared path - you don't want to go giving an old guy a heart attack now do you? A bell ding aligning is the best and certainly from my point of view appreciated.

Unfortunately, many pedestrians interpret the ringing of my bell as "f*ck off out of my way" rather then the "excuse me, I'm coming past" that was intended.
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Chris the Tall - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Trangia:

Up here in Sheffield the motto is "Be nice - say hi" - http://www.ridesheffield.org.uk/2016/08/why-cant-we-all-just-get-on/

I think a polite shout of "Cyclist, hello" is far better than a bell - it's not a demand that you get out of my way, just letting you know I'm here. Plus a bell can be hard to operate when your hands are tightly gripping the brakes.
Trangia on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to hokkyokusei:

> Unfortunately, many pedestrians interpret the ringing of my bell as "f*ck off out of my way" rather then the "excuse me, I'm coming past" that was intended.

What makes you believe that?

I certainly don't, and as I said I appreciate it. Much rather that than jumping out of my skin when unexpectedly overtaken. I don't know anyone amongst my walking friends or in the local Ramblers who interpret a polite "ding a ling" in the way you suggest.

The New NickB - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to MG:

> Endless examples. Here you managed to blame a stationary car for a collision between a cyclist and another car.


It really isn't very nice to totally distort what people have written in order to have a dig at them.
The New NickB - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Trangia:

> What makes you believe that?

It is a commonly expressed view.
L Scallop on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Chris Harris:
I use my bike to acess the Western Fells here and regulary bike up to Crag Fell and also behind Herdus and over past Flouten cop stopping by the tarn then over Scarth pass back via Black sail YHA for a brew and home or any of the other bridleways but what i can confidently say that i have never had issuse with a fellow walker.

Where i do run i to problems is on the local cycle ways provided by Sustrans and Dog walkers who think they can let their dogs run free, while they just wander on with music in their ears ect.

Our section is infested with them and have went over my bars and had to stop fast a number of time due to the dogs going for my wheels, ankles and just being stupid,bthe worst offenders are the ones who call their dogs back they run from side to side and then stop dead in front of you no obiedence from them and the dog mess thats never picked up. Or the one who walks on the left sith his dog on a long lead walking on the right with music in their ears they never hear the bell or the excuse me but they scowl when they find a biker behind them. Even biking to work at 6am can be still be busy with them snd biking home in the dark was the same, id rather deal with the traffic on the roads. In a one on one situation of me comming off due to dog walker who would win? Not me eh.

No wonder id rather bike up the fells and hide my bike in the woods and spend my time on the ratch up their ?
Post edited at 15:58
Trangia on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to The New NickB:

> It is a commonly expressed view.

Is it really, or is that an urban myth generated by a minority of grumpy walkers? As I've said it's not a view I hold, nor a view held by the many people I walk with both in and without local Rambler's groups. There is however understandable resentment when no warning by bell nor voice is given.

As I've said, I prefer bell, because being higher pitched the sound travels further and cuts through the sound of voices where a group of people is talking. Certainly the people I walk with are only too happy to make way for cyclists.

To Chris the Tall re braking and dinging at the same time. I've located the bell on my bike just above my right brake lever so that I can flick it with my thumb without loosing my grip or interfering with the braking.

I was interested in your article and mention of a history of conflict between walkers and motor cyclists. Last Sunday I was leading a local Ramblers walk - an 8 mile circular which took in several by ways. Unbeknown to us the local Motorbike and Trail Club had also arranged to hold an event that day using some of the same lanes. They were extremely considerate, polite and smiling and had arranged to go through in small batches, never more than 4 at a time and with a long interval between batches. The rapport between the bikers and the ramblers was great with everybody showing mutual respect and considration, laughing and joking, consequently both clubs had a great time and no one was unduly inconvenienced.




deepsoup - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Trangia:
> That's interesting. Does that cover just you, or also members of your household?

"Covers you and family living with you against a claim or lawsuit resulting from injuries
or property damage to others caused accidentally by you"
Martin W on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to hokkyokusei:

> Unfortunately, many pedestrians interpret the ringing of my bell as "f*ck off out of my way" rather then the "excuse me, I'm coming past" that was intended.

I think it depends to a certain extent on how much warning you give. Ringing a bell loudly and persistently when you're only a couple of metres or so behind someone and not showing any sign of slowing down is aggressive. Ringing a bell when you're ten or more metres back and already slowed down nearly to walking speed is polite.

But if push comes to shove, either is better than nowt, so long as you give the pedestrian plenty of room - especially if you left it late enough to make them likely to react in surprise.

Then again, some people just don't like cyclists.
Ridge - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Scallop:

> Where i do run i to problems is on the local cycle ways provided by Sustrans and Dog walkers who think they can let their dogs run free, while they just wander on with music in their ears ect.

Cleator Moor?

hokkyokusei - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Trangia:

> What makes you believe that?

My experience commuting to work by bike along the local towpath.

> I certainly don't, and as I said I appreciate it. Much rather that than jumping out of my skin when unexpectedly overtaken. I don't know anyone amongst my walking friends or in the local Ramblers who interpret a polite "ding a ling" in the way you suggest.

Wasn't meant to suggest that you did. I didn't say 'all' I said 'many'. Your own personal experience may contradict my experience, but it doesn't disprove my experience.
hokkyokusei - on 10 Aug 2017
In reply to Martin W:

> I think it depends to a certain extent on how much warning you give. Ringing a bell loudly and persistently when you're only a couple of metres or so behind someone and not showing any sign of slowing down is aggressive. Ringing a bell when you're ten or more metres back and already slowed down nearly to walking speed is polite.

> But if push comes to shove, either is better than nowt, so long as you give the pedestrian plenty of room - especially if you left it late enough to make them likely to react in surprise.

I slow down, and I ring my bell in good time. If there is no visible acknowledgment I continue ringing up to and during my (slow) passing of them. There appears to be no passing speed that won't cause 'surprise' for some people. As for giving pedestrians room, in order to be safe, we have to give each other room.

> Then again, some people just don't like cyclists.

Indeed, this is certainly part of my experience.

garycrocker - on 11 Aug 2017
In reply to tony:
I agree. If a dog owner lets their animal run out in front of a car and it damages the car or causes an accident they take responsibility so I see no reason why a pedestrian should not find themselves in the same position.
Steve Clark - on 11 Aug 2017
In reply to Chris Harris:

I have a friend who fell off his mountain bike on a lane in grizedale forest. Cracked his helmet, broke his arm and knocked himself unconscious. His friends had stopped and were attending to him when a Range Rover appeared at speed, swerved to avoid him lying on the road and crashed into a wall.

Her car insurance realised he was a consultant with a bit of dosh and made a claim for damages. Fortunately his home insurance had some legal protection cover and they were able to defend him

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