/ Big wall terminology

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JLS on 11 Aug 2017
Anyone care to answer a few big wall terminology questions?

"Nailing" - What's that then?

"Rivet ladder" - I take these are only placed on the first ascent and subsequent assents simple place some sort of hanger on the insitu rivets?"

"Hooking" - Are hooks normally left in place as runners or is it case of working you way up the pitch with only two hooks, getting further and further run-out?
dunnyg - on 11 Aug 2017
In reply to JLS:

Nailing. Using pitons or pegs.

Rivet ladder. Rivets are essentially shonky bolts. Some have hangers, some don't.

Hooking. You can use hooks as pro, but they are often psychological.

Hope that helps. I'm sure others will come and correct/elaborate.

JLS on 11 Aug 2017
In reply to dunnyg:

Thanks.
Offwidth - on 11 Aug 2017
In reply to JLS:
Yes to your third question albeit many won't take a fall/stay in place once unweighted (and flicked by the rope) so there is no point leaving them as a runner. There are also obviously some single moves between move conventional moves. Hooking is using hooks or other pro to aid climb by hooking on edges, flakes, pockets, narrow cracks or flares, broken-off rivets/pegs etc to make progress. The most fun form is the cam hook... f**king amazing piece of pro.
Post edited at 17:41
davidbeynon on 12 Aug 2017
In reply to Offwidth:

One thing I have been wondering. I have seen photos of lines of hooks held in place with gaffa tape. Is that just psychological or is there a real chance of them holding if you fall off and load them?
David Coley - on 12 Aug 2017
In reply to JLS:


> "Nailing" - What's that then?

placing several/many peg on a pitch

> "Rivet ladder" - I take these are only placed on the first ascent and subsequent assents simple place some sort of hanger on the insitu rivets?"

a long line of bolts which might not be that deep or of large diameter and might not have hangers - on popular easy routes several will have been replaced by good bolts for safety. You can buy little wire hangers for them.

> "Hooking" - Are hooks normally left in place as runners or is it case of working you way up the pitch with only two hooks, getting further and further run-out?

On easy routes always just working your way up with just two hocks. Not left as pro. On A4 some might get left as pro.

David Coley - on 12 Aug 2017
In reply to davidbeynon:

> One thing I have been wondering. I have seen photos of lines of hooks held in place with gaffa tape. Is that just psychological or is there a real chance of them holding if you fall off and load them?

I have taken an aid fall onto a hook. It held.
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Alasdair Fulton - on 12 Aug 2017
In reply to JLS:
Rivets are not, as some have said, shonky bolts. Sometimes there will be the odd shonky bolt in a rivet ladder, but rivets are actually 10-15mm deep holes with a slightly oversized, cut down bolt head hammered in.

A rivet ladder is a chain of such rivets. You use a small swaged loop of wire, or a "doubloon" to hook over the head. On a more friendly aid pitch, the will be a proper lead bolt (expansion) with a hanger every 5 or 6 rivets.
Post edited at 12:24
Fredt on 12 Aug 2017
In reply to JLS:

I thought rivets were just hangerless bolts?
Alasdair Fulton - on 12 Aug 2017
In reply to Fredt:

So did I. After climbing a few I found out they weren't... I think I would have been a bit more scared had I known!

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