UKC

The problem:

6a/+ feels relatively easily on a variety of routes but 6b feels very out of depth. The problem seems to be in technique when the holds get smaller. Has anyone else done anything particular to break through a grade boundary?

In reply to jafferton91:

climb lots more 6bs until you stop getting spat off them :P

In reply to jafferton91:
Your problem will be pretty familiar to anyone as

"(Grade I currently Climb) feels relatively easily on a variety of routes but (Next grade up) feels very out of depth."

Grades are discrete buckets of subjective and largely arbitrary size, whereas the difficulty of rock climbs is a continuum. Try to identify a range of climbs from 6a+ through to 6b (UKC logs can help with this) that get progressively harder, rather than picking an arbitrary climb at 6b. You may well be picking something in the middle, or at the upper end, of its particular pigeon hole.

Edit - I see you specified indoors. In which case, see crimpsoplenty's advice.

In reply to jafferton91:

My guess is that at that sort of grade you got to that plateau by taking turns climbing routes with your partner.
The key to breaking a new grade will be employing redpointing tactics.

1) warm-up - six routes progressive difficulty up to 6a swapping goes with your partner.
2) 15min rest.
3) target 6b route - do your best to dog up the route, spend up to 20min on the route doing maybe 3 laps of short hard sections to learn precisely what you need to do at each.
4) rest 25min.
5) repeat no.3
6) rest 25min.
7) repeat no.3
8) go home rest a day or two.
9) go back and repeat the session.

In reply to jafferton91:

Holy cow, is that what climbing has become? Where's the joy?

In reply to Rigid Raider:

The joy is outdoors! not in the gym :P

In reply to JLS:


20 minutes on 1 route! how high is your local wall? I'd be spending 2-3 minutes max for each attempt when redpointing a 10m-15m high route, with slightly longer rests.

In reply to jafferton91:

Have you considered getting on some steeper routes? They tend to still be pretty juggy at 6b and 6b+. This may be a way of breaking into 6b, but won't necessarily make you any better on the more technical vertical / slabby stuff. It may however, help you push your comfort zone, which is likely to pay still dividends on less steep routes with smaller holds.

In reply to Jon Greengrass:

2-3 minutes? I think that assumed you can already climb the route. The OP wants to "work" routes he can't currently climb.

In reply to JLS:

it should't take more than 2-3 minutes to climb up the routes as far as you can and fall off because you can't do the moves.

In reply to Jon Greengrass:

which isn't redpointing!

In reply to Jon Greengrass:

What you are describing is the later stages of redpointing. The point when you start to believe you'll get it next go and may wish to lower off after a fall to conserve your energy for the next try. Before that stage however, there is a process of "working" the route which involves spending time on the route learning its intricacies and pulling multiple times on the hard moves (the actual training part).

In reply to jafferton91:

If you're managing 6a/+ relatively easily then it doesn't sound like general fitness is the main problem, rather as you say, on 6b's the holds get smaller and the sequences more technical. Best advice I could give would be to spend more time bouldering indoors getting the hang of smaller, crimpier holds and trickier sequences, then use this experience to work some of the 6b leads down the wall.

In reply to jafferton91:

I should have said, my earlier reply was a very direct answer to your question, "I'm at grade X and want to climb grade X+1".

I'm pretty sure just doing what I've said will work within a few weeks and in time take you a few grades beyond that.
However, if you wanted to be more long-term-ist about it and the question was, "I'm at grade X and want to climb grade X+10", then the answer would probable be...

1) Give up roped climbing.
2) Go hard bouldering for two years
3) Do some endurance training for six weeks.
4) Go try to redpoint some currently unimaginably hard routes.

Hope this helps.

In reply to jafferton91:


I'd do a combination of:

Climb lots of 6a and 6a+ routes, see how clean you can climb them one after another.
Try some circuit training, repeat the the circuit over and over again, try to make it flow and feel easy
Try some harder bouldering moves
Keep trying the odd F6b in the middle of your session (warmed up but not knackered), eventually you will get it

In reply to jafferton91:


I think most people have to change tactics when it gets harder to progress. One tactic already mentioned is redpointing. Beyond that you might start to do specific training. Everybody is different so the point at which you plateau and require a change of tactics will vary. Bouldering is good training whatever the level you climb.

But I don't think getting to 6b will be hard for most people if they climb regularly and put the effort in at the wall. How many times a week do you climb? Are you comfortable falling or do you shout 'take' when it gets hard?

In reply to planetmarshall:

>discrete buckets

Didn't they support Half Man Half Biscuit back in the 80's?

In reply to jafferton91:

First, don't get too bogged down with grades, just enjoy climbing. Part of the battle of improving is the psychological effort, not being put off by the grade is hugely important.
Second, don't fall into training traps at this stage. There's no need for specificity in your training, to the extent of periodised training, finger boards etc.

With those words of caution out of the way, the main piece of advice is to climb more. As someone previous asked, how often do you climb?
At your level 2 to three times a week. Once will only just maintain your level, and more than three will over train you for your level, resulting in injury, and regression.

Boulder! Get used to climbing hard on naff holds and figuring out sequences.

Dog routes! Get a patient partner and lay siege on a 6b/+ and hammer the moves till they're nothing! then from fresh! see if you can get it as a oner.

In reply to jafferton91:



You could try this.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Climbers-Make-Same-Mistakes/dp/095642810X

In reply to jafferton91:

If you don't already boulder, then start. It's the perfect way to up your technique and power, although you'll have to keep up your lead climbing to maintain endurance.
Find a bouldering circuit which you just can't complete and work at it until you can, then move on up.

In reply to Jon Greengrass:


No it shouldn't but that isn't an effective redpointing tactic.

OP: Get on more 6b's and harder, get your weight over your feet, rest where you can. If you're falling because there's a distinct crux then work it until it's easy then figure out how to arrive at it fresh or via a rest. If you're sitting down on the rope for fear of pressing on when tired then learn to fall safely and comfortably with a trusted belayer. Redpointing will make a massive difference to your grade if you have a reasonable base of fitness and experience, likely a whole number grade, if you don't then it'll help build it (though bouldering is a less frustrating pathway to getting fit and better). There are countless threads (and opinions) on learning to redpoint and to manage the fear of falling.
jk

In reply to jafferton91:

Try a different wall!

At one point a few years ago, I was climbing 6a at Craggy Island and 7a at Westway!

In reply to Rigid Railder
There is also a joy and satisfaction in improvement. As well as training for access to better routes outdoors I train because I like it. I do not like being told what to do however

In reply to wbo:


I do find it amusing that on a climbing forum, somebody appears to be both surprised and critical that somebody is keen to improve at climbing.

The vast majority of climbers I know are like that (selection bias admittedly), and we're not all miserable and joyless.

In reply to JLS:

I like this ideology! I do boulder regularly and am able to do most V3 problems with ease, some V4's are very much do-able and some just feel out of reach and again this is when the holds get smaller! Generally Slabs/Overhangs are do-able and techy vert/techy slightly overhanging ones are troublesome.

In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Falling is fine although I do shout 'take' when I know I will fail the next section basically because it is easier than climbing back up to that point which is an energy saving tactic. Basically just working the route. Currently climbing/bouldering 2/3 times a week.

In reply to Oceanrower:

HA! I also go to Craggy Island sometimes and find it is harder than other centres! Usually lead 5a there and top rope up to 5c. I hear a lot that the routes there are harder than the given grade, but this is all opinion right?

In reply to jafferton91:
>"able to do most V3 problems with ease"

Then I'd have thought you are more that good enough for 6b routes. Try the redpoint tactics.

In reply to jafferton91:

I'd suggest that you switch walls to one that had a route setter that doesn't merely grade routes by the size of the holds