UKC

Any computer experts out there? Eldest son is about to start A levels and would like a laptop to do his work on, should I be looking at spending 500 quid on something or is it worth trying a refurbished model for half the price. Any advise welcomed! Thanks

In reply to climber34neil:

£500 can certainly get you a pretty decent machine. It's enough money that most options are reasonable, with the exception of the odd complete rip-off. If you're willing to put a bit of time into figuring out your requirements, doing some research and choosing carefully, you could probably knock a bit off that figure and still get something very serviceable.

I've just bought a laptop myself and pondered whether to go for a refurb. My experience was that they were generally more like 20-30% off than 50%. In the end, I found a great deal on a standard new machine and decided I'd rather have certainty than the greater gamble of a refurb.

Laptop shopping is an absolute minefield, I'm afraid. Be aware that a single model name normally covers a whole host of different specs and configurations, some of them unique to individual shops, which makes comparison and finding reviews really difficult.

In reply to climber34neil:

what subjects ? will have an influence on what software he will want /need to run & computing power needed. Does his school give any advice ? (& remember there are often special deals for students, both for hard & software)

In reply to climber34neil:

General thoughts:

- An SSD instead of a hard drive will make any laptop feel much faster and more responsive. Definitely something you should be able to include at that price. You'll need the greater storage of a hard drive if your son needs to store substantial amounts of video on it, otherwise a decent SSD should be fine for average usage with documents, music and pictures.

- Acer provide a lot of bang for the buck in terms of spec.

- You'll need to decide whether he wants a traditional laptop or one of the various different takes on convertible/hybrid/2-in-1.

In reply to Doug:

Chemistry, physics, biology, psychology a levels

In reply to climber34neil:

Thanks all for the advice

In reply to climber34neil:

What ever you buy make sure it has an SSD

In reply to climber34neil:

Good topic. The quandry I'm having at the moment is Windows 7 or 10? I have 7 on a work laptop and find I excellent. 10 would appear to be the way forward, but sounds like it downloads all sorts of stuff constantly. I'm in a rural area with 6Mbps download on a good day, so don,t want to have the thing constantly updating every time I switch it on.

In reply to Ridge:

I'm on even slower internet than that on Windows 10 and updates haven't been a problem at all. It doesn't restart to upgrade and then start downloading, it does the download in the background and then asks to restart once it's ready to go.

I'd recommend the upgrade. It's not too jarringly different and, as you say, it's the way forward. Better to upgrade now when it's convenient for you than wait until you have to do it in a rush because Windows 7 is being phased out.

In reply to Ridge:

You can flag a network connection as 'metered' within Windows 10, which seems to calm down most of the background downloading.

In reply to climber34neil:

There was a jack schofield piece in the guardian on this very topic worth digging out.

In reply to climber34neil:

Lenovo yoga 710 11 inch
John Lewis £499

See review by John Schofield in Guardian tech section

In reply to climber34neil:

I'd look for a secondhand/refurbed Mac over a new PC. I have a a 2007 MacBook Pro that still gets used daily (for general browsing and tv) and my partner has a 2011 MacBook Air that is still her main work laptop used 7 days a week. Both laptops boot up under 30 secs with no annoying pop ups and updates - and I can launch safari and be on ukc in under 10 secs from boot. On a laptop that is 10 years old!

That's the deifference between a mac and a pc for me

In reply to climber34neil:

Get a second hand one iff ebay for around £65. He wont need a high power one for A lebels, so anything in the last 10 years will be fine.

In reply to climber34neil:

Also with that range of A levels ask him why he's not doing maths as it would be pretty important to doing most of them at university.

In reply to kestrelspl:

Guess it depends on the school but back when I did my A levels (which was some 40 years ago), it was obligatory to take maths if you took physics at my school. And I can't imagine how you could cope with chemistry or physics at university without maths A level - I struggled with maths for chemists with maths & further maths at A level. I later switched to biology & was still glad I had a background in maths

In reply to jonny.greenwood:


But PC's have spellcheck.

I had 3 of the mid range lenovos in a row and each had a drama (loud fan, black screen of death and I can't remember the last). John Lewis had no problems replacing them, but after the last I switched to an hp and had no dramas, so brand new doesn't equal problem free, just problem fixed for free until you get one that works...

In reply to kestrelspl:

School suggested that maths wouldn't be essential but thanks for the advice, will look into it

In reply to climber34neil:

Again thanks all for the advice, will look up the guardian reviews

In reply to jonnie3430:

Ha. Touché. Unfortunately, that comment was written from a mobile.

In reply to climber34neil:
At the moment I could afford to spend money on a decent laptop , but I refuse to do so. I just don't see where the money's going to go, unless I see some convincing evidence that it's not going to start off good and then graduallyt degenerate into a frustrating pile of shite in about 2y.

If I had fancy software that needed lots of processing power to make it work smoothly, I would spend the money. But all I need is to be able to play video and music (lots of), and do normal internet stuff like shopping and UKC. It's plugged into the TV so the screen ain't an issue. Soundcard's extrernal plugged into a good amp and speakers. I much prefer 2-in-1 (a touchscreen + keyboard).

With these requrimemts, a budget of £250-300 seems ample. I fully expect it start off absolutely fine for my needs and then to go shit in 2 years, but what I'm not convinced about is that if spent £5-600 it would do anything different.

Can anyone enlighten me, given my requirements, what benefits I might get from spending an extra £300?

In reply to Jon Stewart:
2nd hand Mac. See comment above...

I fully believe that the current line of MacBook Airs bought new could last 15 years if looked after.

I'm our house we have 2007 MBP, 2009 iMac, 2011 MBA and a 2015 MBP. And a couple of older Pro towers in the office. All work as new, with minimal fatigue.

You can pick up a MBA 2012 on eBay for around £400, with a seller guarantee and the same spec as the above mentioned Lenovo.

This laptop will not fatigue for at least another 5 years

In reply to Jon Stewart:

My thoughts exactly. Every Windows machine I've ever owned has started off great and got ever slower at boot up.

In reply to jonny.greenwood:


I can understand what you're saying about speed of boot-up being impressive, but that's pretty much last of the factors I'd consider when buying a new laptop.

For me, stability, speed of processing, screen IQ and o/s security would be top 4 on the list. Weight and battery life would be less significant for my use.

How fast is a 10 y/o Mac compared to a cheap-ish, new pc? (I genuinely don't know, hence the qu.)

In reply to Fraser:
Boot time is a great way of checking a laptops usability - it will show any fatigue.

I guess I would say personal use is web browsing, email and small business - accounting etc. The oldest laptop we have still caters for all the that. It can stream 1080p from Vimeo and bbc iplayer. It pretty much lives plugged into to tv for this purpose.

It's not going to play the latest Call of Duty, but really speaking, you would expect it to.

And that's my most extreme example. You can pick those up for £50 if you fancy seeing for your self.

I'm recommending a 4-5 year old laptop that is much more advanced...

In reply to jonny.greenwood:

Thanks for the response. I've nothing against macs, indeed I started out using them many years ago, but I switched to the dark side a while back. I now find myself contemplating a laptop to replace an ageing, pc tower, so I was following this thread with interest.

I can't justify the cost of a mac, so have to consider the best alternative given my own requirements. I'll usually be connecting to a separate screen for Lightroom editing, minimal CAD work (usually 2D but sometimes 3D) on occasion and general browsing, including streaming. No gaming required for me.

[ Apologies for the thread hi-jack! ]

In reply to Fraser:

Totally agree on the cost, it's pretty mental, especially new.

I'm definitely not anti-pc, I just think you need to work a bit harder to get the best out of them. And that's not for everyone. I have editor mates who prefer pc, but they tinker and upgrade constantly - which is great of that's what you're into.

For home use, and anyone who considers themselves 'computer illiterate' it's mac all the way. My partners grandma at 80 years of ages uses an MBA to do her family tree and watch downtown abbey on iPlayer and bloody loves it.

In reply to Jon Stewart:


If that's all you want to do, I'd suggest a £30-ish android 'media box'. Plug it into the TV. Use either the SPDIF o/p from the media box, or the SPDIF o/p from the TV (with audio via HDMI from box to TV), then into SPDIF DAC/Amp. Add USB mouse & keyboard; I have a tiny wireless keyboard, and wired mouse.

That's what I do for most of my low-grade computing. I only boot up the desktop PC to rip CDs and any 'proper work'.

I also have a cheap ViewSonic all-in-one PC (Atom, Win7) in the bedroom for MusicBee/Kodi.

And a Win8.1 tablet for running MusicBee to any of the DLNA renderers in the house (often streaming to the BubbleUPnP renderer running on the Android media box...).

My desktop, ViewSonic & Win8.1 tablet are all secondhand (either rescued from skip, or from 2nd hand shops).

In reply to jonny.greenwood:

Unfortunately, just the thought of buying anything by Apple makes me throw up my own pelvis.

In reply to climber34neil:

It depends a bit if he wants to go more down the psychology/biology route or the chemistry physics route. Having had a quick look at the requirements for the university I'm working at at the moment for Chemistry or Physics you wouldn't be accepted without a maths A-level, for Biology it's one of the ones that is recommended, and there's no psychology course here.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Care to explain...

In reply to jonny.greenwood:


I'm not sure I can. I have a visceral reaction to the brand. It's much to do with their marketing and the way they've been so effective in burrowing their business into the core of people's identities that I find horrifically sinister. Are you a cool, arty, modern, attractive, successful Mac person who everyone admires, one of life's winners? Or are you a square, a nerd, with no appreciation of design, struggling with your cheap, ugly, messy PC that are for people who can't reach the higher plane of the Mac user because they lack the aspiration and the talent?

This is the message that Apple's marketing gives me, and it makes me want jump off a building, but not before taking the entire world of western consumer capitalism with me.

I mean, I might be over-thinking it a little...

In reply to Jon Stewart:


I'm surprised! You're normally so mild and moderate in your opinions.

Just bought a MacBook Pro (I'm fairly computer illiterate and as Jonny pointed out macs are easier). It's tiny, very pretty ,has a great display and links up really well with my phone and desktop mac. I got a 10% student discount and they threw in a £250 pair of wireless headphones, plus if I sell it on in 3 years I should get a decent price for it.

In reply to climber34neil:

Genuinely though, if you, or anyone else for that matter, would like some help finding a 2nd machine in good condition then PM me. eBay is goldmine.

Always happy to help ukc

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Ha. Is messy nerd with aspirations of grandeur an option

I agree with your hatred of the apple cult lifestyle. When my phone rings and in turn, every other item in the house starts ringing in turn, that is pretty annoying. But it's also nice when the pics I took on my phone at the weekend are just on my laptop and I didn't even do anything.

Swings and roundabouts.

In reply to Stichtplate:

Yes. The price of the human soul has really come down recently, hasn't it?

In reply to Jon Stewart:

It has if it's as tiny, black and shrivelled as mine.

In reply to jonny.greenwood:

Bit of a tangent, but do you know if the Mac Mini any good?
I want to replace my 8 year old windows desktop, and I'm wondering if this would be a good option rather than a new windows PC. I've still got screen, keyboard etc. which I think are good enough

In reply to stevieb:
The mini's are solid bits of kit. We use one to manage the server, so it's plugged into 24/7. Been humming away nicely for the past 3 years no bother. Definitely recommend

If you're after 2nd-hand, Late 2012 models have USB 3, Thunderbolt 1 & Firewire 800, Late 2014 have USB 3 & Thunderbolt 2 only. Both have hdmi and SD card slot.

You can compare specs here... https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201894

If you're buying new, hold off maybe. An updated model is well over due and could be released anytime soon!

In reply to jonny.greenwood:

Thanks. I was thinking of getting the bottom of the range one new. But I suppose if one of the selling points is that performance doesn't degrade too much, then maybe second hand makes a lot more sense

In reply to climber34neil:

Another vote for the Macbook. After pulling my hair out with Windows 10, it's wonderful to have a laptop that turns on in 2 seconds, off at the close of a lid, and doesn't get slower with each update.

Expensive but so well made.

In reply to climber34neil:

I would also get him a decent external hardrive for regular back ups, and get him into the habit of doing regular back ups.