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I was sorting out a bag of old climbing gear recently; shoes with a hole or two in them but not totally dead; harnesses that look fine but I know I used a lot for five years before putting them in that bag for the next ten years; some bizarre DMM sort-of-screamers, but not the actual knock off screamers they made a few years later; and down at the bottom, my figure of eight.
I don't think I actually bought the figure of eight - I have a feeling it was a birthday present from my cousin in my late teens when I was first getting into climbing and he was interested too. I think I did a few first abseils using it, but as soon as I got my first belay device - a DMM Betabrake - I don't reckon I ever abseiled on the figure of 8 again. I might have used it a bit for belaying when I first tried actual sport climbing, but I sussed out how dodgy that seemed soon enough and stuck with the perfectly good ATC I had by then. Hence the figure of 8 has been lying unloved at the bottom of a bag or other, in some attic for basically 25 years.
Is there ANYTHING that a figure of 8 is actually better for than the numerous other belay/abseil devices I now have? Has anyone come up with clever non-climbing uses for theirs that I might not have thought of? Does anyone still take one to the crag and if so why?
Post edited at 22:17
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In reply to TobyA:
I think they're a bit nicer to ab on than a belay device but not enough to make me want to carry one.
I think they're a bit nicer to ab on than a belay device but not enough to make me want to carry one.
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In reply to DaveHK:
I think I remember they twist the ropes up as well, so you end up with kinks. Am I just imagining that?
I think I remember they twist the ropes up as well, so you end up with kinks. Am I just imagining that?
In reply to TobyA:
TBH I can't really remember, it's been that long! Like you I think I have one in a box somewhere.
TBH I can't really remember, it's been that long! Like you I think I have one in a box somewhere.
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In reply to TobyA:
I think you can use them to set up top ropes so that the rope can't be unclipped.
I think you can use them to set up top ropes so that the rope can't be unclipped.
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In reply to TobyA:
Group use:
Abseiling, they wear well
Putting an Italian hitch in to belay so it can't rub the gate and easy to pass on to the next person
Using in a bottom rope set up instead of krabs at the top
Group use:
Abseiling, they wear well
Putting an Italian hitch in to belay so it can't rub the gate and easy to pass on to the next person
Using in a bottom rope set up instead of krabs at the top
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In reply to Kevster:
Yes there's one at the top of a route at Goblin Combe - well used i did admire the symmetrical wear on it when belaying my second up.
Yes there's one at the top of a route at Goblin Combe - well used i did admire the symmetrical wear on it when belaying my second up.
In reply to TobyA:
Yes, very bad. A bulky piece of gear that only reigned for a short while.
> I think I remember they twist the ropes up as well, so you end up with kinks. Am I just imagining that?
Yes, very bad. A bulky piece of gear that only reigned for a short while.
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In reply to TobyA:
They would make a good contribution to a wind chime.
Was out on Kvanndalstind with some of the lass' family members who rocked up with very vintage looking, surplus Fig8s. I think it is the first time I have seen one in use for about 10 years, novel, but after numerous long abseils my ropes are infuriatingly twisted.
They would make a good contribution to a wind chime.
Was out on Kvanndalstind with some of the lass' family members who rocked up with very vintage looking, surplus Fig8s. I think it is the first time I have seen one in use for about 10 years, novel, but after numerous long abseils my ropes are infuriatingly twisted.
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In reply to TobyA:
Possibly high altitude work on frozen fixed lines with big gloves on.
> Is there ANYTHING that a figure of 8 is actually better for than the numerous other belay/abseil devices I now have? Has anyone come up with clever non-climbing uses for theirs that I might not have thought of? Does anyone still take one to the crag and if so why?
Possibly high altitude work on frozen fixed lines with big gloves on.
5
In reply to TobyA:
Bottle opener.
> Is there ANYTHING that a figure of 8 is actually better for than the numerous other belay/abseil devices I now have? Has anyone come up with clever non-climbing uses for theirs that I might not have thought of?
Bottle opener.
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In reply to TobyA:
They dissipate heat better than ATCs, - a comforting thought on big 200' abs on skinny ropes.
We always used them in Yosemite for this reason, and I would again if I went.
They dissipate heat better than ATCs, - a comforting thought on big 200' abs on skinny ropes.
We always used them in Yosemite for this reason, and I would again if I went.
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In reply to TobyA:
It's not unusual to see them being used in continental Europe as sport belay devices, presumably because you can't give a hard catch.
It's not unusual to see them being used in continental Europe as sport belay devices, presumably because you can't give a hard catch.
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In reply to TobyA:
High altitude fixed rope stuff is the only thing I would use a figure of 8 for as they'll still work with iced up ropes. Almost anything will pass through the big gauge of a figure of 8, unlike an ATC. Also much easier to thread with big gloves, as mentioned above.
High altitude fixed rope stuff is the only thing I would use a figure of 8 for as they'll still work with iced up ropes. Almost anything will pass through the big gauge of a figure of 8, unlike an ATC. Also much easier to thread with big gloves, as mentioned above.
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In reply to TobyA:
Yes they do twist ropes. I have a DMM Anka which is supposed to reduce twisting, but I haven't used it for nearly twenty years.
Yes they do twist ropes. I have a DMM Anka which is supposed to reduce twisting, but I haven't used it for nearly twenty years.
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In reply to Kevster:
With a bit of prior planning, you can use them at the top when bottom roping, instead of a krab, just thread the small end on before tying a knot to equalise.
> Would they make a good ab ring on an anchor? Maybe a thread or tat anchor?
With a bit of prior planning, you can use them at the top when bottom roping, instead of a krab, just thread the small end on before tying a knot to equalise.
In reply to TobyA:
As has been pointed out, they are miles better than reg. belay devices on single rope abseils (but there are still better equipment for this)...
So not really worth the effort these days to keep in the rack & take to the crag... unless were talkin' about a crag with a mandatory 50+m rappel or more likely rappels on thick fixed static rope done numerous times a day...
Some horse trainers seem to have off-climbing uses for them... at least that's where I sold mine for a whoppin' 2 € cost.
As has been pointed out, they are miles better than reg. belay devices on single rope abseils (but there are still better equipment for this)...
So not really worth the effort these days to keep in the rack & take to the crag... unless were talkin' about a crag with a mandatory 50+m rappel or more likely rappels on thick fixed static rope done numerous times a day...
Some horse trainers seem to have off-climbing uses for them... at least that's where I sold mine for a whoppin' 2 € cost.
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In reply to TobyA:
Mine just rattles around in my crag swag box along with a few equally neglected hexes, that I drag to the crag every now and then and never place.
Mine just rattles around in my crag swag box along with a few equally neglected hexes, that I drag to the crag every now and then and never place.
Post edited at 12:31
In reply to Tigger:
Funnily enough since moving back to the UK I often take and use my Torque nuts (fancy DMM hexes). In Finland on granite a double set of cams was normal but now for mid grade grit and limestone, a set of cams and hexes works for me.
Funnily enough since moving back to the UK I often take and use my Torque nuts (fancy DMM hexes). In Finland on granite a double set of cams was normal but now for mid grade grit and limestone, a set of cams and hexes works for me.
In reply to TobyA:
I'm reading your post and smiling - I'm sure I have at least one, if not two, figure of eights in my climbing gear box, never used them in years, can remember abb'ing with them though - may dig them out and have a retro session with them before the weather changes.
I'm reading your post and smiling - I'm sure I have at least one, if not two, figure of eights in my climbing gear box, never used them in years, can remember abb'ing with them though - may dig them out and have a retro session with them before the weather changes.
In reply to TobyA:
My lad uses one to actually abseil on and keeps it just for this purpose. As he's light a belay plate is too grippy for him and the figure-8 is much smoother and easier to use.
My lad uses one to actually abseil on and keeps it just for this purpose. As he's light a belay plate is too grippy for him and the figure-8 is much smoother and easier to use.
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In reply to TobyA:
I've got a very old steel one that I use as a belay.
That's not to belay but as a belay, it weighs an absolute ton. Just drag it up onto a ledge, pop a sling round one end and you're good to go.
I've got a very old steel one that I use as a belay.
That's not to belay but as a belay, it weighs an absolute ton. Just drag it up onto a ledge, pop a sling round one end and you're good to go.
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In reply to TobyA:
They fell out of use becase they're potentially dangerous:-
https://tinyurl.com/y72tbba9
Anyone abseiling with one should consider using a belay carabiner to keep the fig 8 alinged properly.
They fell out of use becase they're potentially dangerous:-
https://tinyurl.com/y72tbba9
Anyone abseiling with one should consider using a belay carabiner to keep the fig 8 alinged properly.
Post edited at 19:18
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In reply to TobyA:
They're still my go-to device for group abseils; much better for lighter children, and rather more intuitive for someone who's never abseiled before, than an ATC. And if I have them to hand, I might use them to secure bottom ropes (as someone already said, you can use them to set an anchor that can't be unclipped).
They're still my go-to device for group abseils; much better for lighter children, and rather more intuitive for someone who's never abseiled before, than an ATC. And if I have them to hand, I might use them to secure bottom ropes (as someone already said, you can use them to set an anchor that can't be unclipped).
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In reply to TobyA:
As I recognise my own circumstance in your post and others it is perhaps fair to say that the figure of 8 decender is better than almost any other piece of gear for looking impressive at the bottom of any box of unused climbing gear. Friend to all those cams with furry slings which you paid £20 for years ago so cant justify throwing away, various bits of cord and some worn out slings which might self heal if you horde them long enough.
So I see your figure of eight and raise you some old camp hexs never threaded with cord and some camp BOLO nuts (the ones with different size nuts on each end of the wire) which looked awesome in some foreign co-op after a few beers.
As I recognise my own circumstance in your post and others it is perhaps fair to say that the figure of 8 decender is better than almost any other piece of gear for looking impressive at the bottom of any box of unused climbing gear. Friend to all those cams with furry slings which you paid £20 for years ago so cant justify throwing away, various bits of cord and some worn out slings which might self heal if you horde them long enough.
So I see your figure of eight and raise you some old camp hexs never threaded with cord and some camp BOLO nuts (the ones with different size nuts on each end of the wire) which looked awesome in some foreign co-op after a few beers.
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In reply to Wayne S:
The Bolo nuts were always an exceptionally stupid idea!
I've got some almost comically awful ice screws that are virtually impossible to place, bought in a pub from a guy in my uni club who was only ever known by the moniker Captain Canada... does that beat your hexes?
The Bolo nuts were always an exceptionally stupid idea!
I've got some almost comically awful ice screws that are virtually impossible to place, bought in a pub from a guy in my uni club who was only ever known by the moniker Captain Canada... does that beat your hexes?
Post edited at 00:20
In reply to TobyA:
Perhaps heat dissipation for long abseils where your belay device will get too hot to handle? I certainly wouldn't lug one up a normal Trad route!
Perhaps heat dissipation for long abseils where your belay device will get too hot to handle? I certainly wouldn't lug one up a normal Trad route!
In reply to TobyA:
I always take one with me when on a camping exped. Use it as a spaghetti measure, big end serves 6 and small end serves 3.
I always take one with me when on a camping exped. Use it as a spaghetti measure, big end serves 6 and small end serves 3.
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In reply to geordiepie:
They fell out of favour about 40 years before that!
> They fell out of use becase they're potentially dangerous:-
> Anyone abseiling with one should consider using a belay carabiner to keep the fig 8 alinged properly.
They fell out of favour about 40 years before that!
In reply to jimtitt:
I have been carrying and using a Fig 8 for the past 30+ years, reasons;
1 Much easier to tread at the top of the crag when you are tired at the end of the day
2 Easy and intuitive to lock off if you need to stop on the way down
3 Descent is much smoother and easier to control than a small belay device
4 very useful if you have to weight down a sling over a spike
and finally it has got more nuts out of cracks when they just need a sharp tap to start them off !
I have been carrying and using a Fig 8 for the past 30+ years, reasons;
1 Much easier to tread at the top of the crag when you are tired at the end of the day
2 Easy and intuitive to lock off if you need to stop on the way down
3 Descent is much smoother and easier to control than a small belay device
4 very useful if you have to weight down a sling over a spike
and finally it has got more nuts out of cracks when they just need a sharp tap to start them off !
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In reply to TobyA:
Have always carried one on big alpine routes. If you have to bail - especially in a storm - nothing beats them for simplicity, speed, control and versatility.
And of course the big plus is you can use them with mitts and frozen ropes - which also makes them great for belaying in crappy conditions too.
Have always carried one on big alpine routes. If you have to bail - especially in a storm - nothing beats them for simplicity, speed, control and versatility.
And of course the big plus is you can use them with mitts and frozen ropes - which also makes them great for belaying in crappy conditions too.
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In reply to TobyA:
Edelrid have tried to reboot the Figure 8 with a funky new design. It solves a couple of the issues mentioned, one of weight (obviously not as light as if you weren't carrying it at all) and of alignment, the rubber keeper holding the karabiner in place.
Why they named it Terence is anyone's guess, it just makes me think of the flatulent duo from South Park.
I do actually have one but have never used it, anyone have any experience?
https://www.bananafingers.co.uk/edelrid-terence-p-1046.html
Edelrid have tried to reboot the Figure 8 with a funky new design. It solves a couple of the issues mentioned, one of weight (obviously not as light as if you weren't carrying it at all) and of alignment, the rubber keeper holding the karabiner in place.
Why they named it Terence is anyone's guess, it just makes me think of the flatulent duo from South Park.
I do actually have one but have never used it, anyone have any experience?
https://www.bananafingers.co.uk/edelrid-terence-p-1046.html
In reply to TobyA:
Abseiling past a knot without having to fiddle around with prussiks and extenders maybe? I haven't tried this, but would have thought you could do this. Abseiling down to the start of Skeleton Ridge recently springs to mind, although it isn't all that complicated to pass a knot by other means.
Abseiling past a knot without having to fiddle around with prussiks and extenders maybe? I haven't tried this, but would have thought you could do this. Abseiling down to the start of Skeleton Ridge recently springs to mind, although it isn't all that complicated to pass a knot by other means.
In reply to TobyA:
Saw someone belaying a (rapid) speed climber with one at Awesome Walls. I assume they're easier to take in quickly with, maybe less grabby than an ATC / GriGri?
Saw someone belaying a (rapid) speed climber with one at Awesome Walls. I assume they're easier to take in quickly with, maybe less grabby than an ATC / GriGri?
In reply to TobyA:
Seen them used a few years ago by "adventure" firm for bottom roping at Dancing Ledge, Dorset. First student belays with fig 8 and inactive rope then goes through through 2nd kid's fig 8 ( assume this is both to ensure no failure occurs if 1st kid cocks up and also to occupy more people and stop them running loose etc).
Seen them used a few years ago by "adventure" firm for bottom roping at Dancing Ledge, Dorset. First student belays with fig 8 and inactive rope then goes through through 2nd kid's fig 8 ( assume this is both to ensure no failure occurs if 1st kid cocks up and also to occupy more people and stop them running loose etc).
In reply to geordiepie:
Another problem is that the rope can slip to the top of the 8 and jam by forming a girth hitch while abseiling.
The first time I used one I couldn't rely on my hands to grip on an over the shoulder abseil when retreating from a perch belay about 120' up. I pulled up my friend's fig8 and tied to follow his instructions. The rope jammed after a few feet, fortunately before I was hanging free; I struggled back up, reset the rope and it worked.
Some years later I saw exactly the same at Stanage, the guy was lowered a toprope.
Another problem is that the rope can slip to the top of the 8 and jam by forming a girth hitch while abseiling.
The first time I used one I couldn't rely on my hands to grip on an over the shoulder abseil when retreating from a perch belay about 120' up. I pulled up my friend's fig8 and tied to follow his instructions. The rope jammed after a few feet, fortunately before I was hanging free; I struggled back up, reset the rope and it worked.
Some years later I saw exactly the same at Stanage, the guy was lowered a toprope.
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