UKC

COMPETITION: WINNER - Win a new Pongoose Climber 700 3in1 clipstick

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 UKC Articles 18 Sep 2017
, 4 kbPongoose is a brand new grass-roots UK climbing brand. Our mission is to help climbers and boulderers everywhere to start pushing the grade. We are proud to announce the release of the Pongoose Climber 700 - the first multi-directional 3in1 clipstick, brushing stick and camera boom. Designed and made by climbers who know exactly what you want, this is the one device climbers everywhere have been waiting for.  

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 simes303 21 Sep 2017
In reply to UKC Articles:

The instructional videos on the Pongoose website at times show the user clipped in to only one bolt, with enough slack out to ensure a ground fall were the bolt to fail or the quickdraw to accidentally unclip.
This is very irresponsible.
16
In reply to simes303:

I suppose that if the bolt fails then the amount of slack makes no difference - who says sport climbing is safe?
 simes303 22 Sep 2017
In reply to simes303:

> The instructional videos on the Pongoose website at times show the user clipped in to only one bolt, with enough slack out to ensure a ground fall were the bolt to fail or the quickdraw to accidentally unclip.

> This is very irresponsible.

How can this have received three "dislikes"? Trusting your life to just one bolt isn't a good idea. And by producing an instructional video that clearly shows this, the manufacturers of Pongoose are leaving themselves open to legal issues should anyone be hurt because of doing so.
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 simes303 22 Sep 2017
In reply to Frank the Husky:

> I suppose that if the bolt fails then the amount of slack makes no difference - who says sport climbing is safe?

If a bolt fails when climbing, then the bolt below it would usually stop the fall. That is not the case in the video.
1
In reply to simes303:
For the record, I haven't disliked your post; however, I can say with some degree of certainty that this is how virtually every sport climber I know clip-sticks a route - it's how I do it too - and is generally accepted to be common practise.

It's also worth noting that the BMC recommend the very same thing within their own instructional film: youtube.com/watch?v=-LyTV9RmzpE&
Post edited at 09:20
 1poundSOCKS 22 Sep 2017
In reply to simes303:

> This is very irresponsible.

Like Rob said, this technique is so commonplace, are bolts failures appear to be so rare. A calculated risk that most people are happy to take.
 nacnud 22 Sep 2017
In reply to simes303:
How would you propose to stick clip the next bolt?

You need to pull through at least twice the amount of rope as the distance between the bolts. Once you've done this you could clip into a fig 8 on the bight and then stick clip the next bolt, or in about the same time you could just clip stick the next bolt and be done with it. Either way you're in danger of a long fall for about the same amount of time.

You could use a grigri or prussic so as you pull through slack so you are always tight to the bolt but I've never seen anyone do this.
Post edited at 09:37
 simes303 22 Sep 2017
In reply to Rob Greenwood - UKClimbing:
Hi Rob.
I was actually referring to the parts where the climber lowers the stick back to the belayer, or pulls it up to clip a bolt above the crux section, not putting clips in one after the other. That video shows the climber hanging from one bolt with the rope to the next bolt down going all the way to the ground and back up again first. Fair enough, failing bolts are rare, but why take the risk when it's your life that's at stake?
This isn't supposed to be another negative review. I just thought I'd mention something that I thought wasn't too safe. Having read your recent stuff about replacing dodgy bolts at Horseshoe and elsewhere, I'd have thought this was a reasonable point to raise. Hanging on one bolt while you lower your stick back down may not be a great idea.
Cheers, Si.
Post edited at 11:34
 simes303 22 Sep 2017
In reply to nacnud:
> How would you propose to stick clip the next bolt?

That's not what I meant. See post above.
Si.
Post edited at 11:29
 Pongoose 17 Oct 2017
In reply to simes303:

> The instructional videos on the Pongoose website at times show the user clipped in to only one bolt, with enough slack out to ensure a ground fall were the bolt to fail or the quickdraw to accidentally unclip.

> This is very irresponsible.

Thank you for your comments, feedback is always welcome and important to us. We are sorry you feel that showing the standard way of using a clipstick whilst up a route is irresponsible. It is certainly a difficult issue to address as it is the way climbers have been doing this since clipsticks were introduced, which will, by its very nature, mean relying on a single bolt and having quite a bit of slack out. It is assumed in the climbing world that each climber is aware of the risks of climbing, including bolt integrity and slack in the rope system, however this is not always the case and you are right to highlight this. Especially in light of the recent bolt failures outlined by the Dorset Bolt Fund in their recent UKC article.

As a brand, and individuals, the safety of climbers is extremely important to us. Taking on board your comments regarding our position from a legal perspective, we have amended our videos accordingly and now purely show use of the product on the ground. We now also point viewers to the BMC participation statement, highlight their responsibility as an individual, and that they need to be aware of bolt/rock integrity and how much slack they have in the system if using the product up a route.

All the best.
 simes303 30 Nov 2017
In reply to Pongoose:

Good stuff. All the best with your product. Si.

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