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Surely we can drop "Judas" as a synonym for traitor and replace it with Boris. How exactly does his continual undermining of his leader help the national project, whatever it is? The man is a complete and utter great bustard.
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In reply to Pete Pozman:
I liked Brian Cox's summary of him this morning... "If you removed all that is good in Britain, leaving only blimpish sludge, and emptied the residue into one man."
I liked Brian Cox's summary of him this morning... "If you removed all that is good in Britain, leaving only blimpish sludge, and emptied the residue into one man."
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In reply to Alyson:
What is he actually good at? I no little Latin, but exactly how good is he at that even? Was he born to be simply an oversized spanner in whatever works happen to be in his proximity?
What is he actually good at? I no little Latin, but exactly how good is he at that even? Was he born to be simply an oversized spanner in whatever works happen to be in his proximity?
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In reply to Pete Pozman:
I think it is posturing and calculation in showing himself as PM material. I think he smells the possibility of Mays departure.
I think it is posturing and calculation in showing himself as PM material. I think he smells the possibility of Mays departure.
In reply to Pete Pozman:
I suppose if he was genuinely outstanding he'd have got a first not a 2:1, however much he partied, politicked and presidented during his time at Oxford.
> What is he actually good at? I no little Latin, but exactly how good is he at that even?
I suppose if he was genuinely outstanding he'd have got a first not a 2:1, however much he partied, politicked and presidented during his time at Oxford.
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In reply to Andy Clarke:
I know little Latin. Sorry.
PPE wasn't it? He isn't just aware of the possibility of May's departure he is very proactively working to make it happen. And so obviously. What has become of the Tory party? I've always feared them because of their unscrupulous contempt for the poor and their raw power in tooth and claw. Now it's because they are a complete ship of fools and they are going to ruin the country permanently through gross incompetence.
I know little Latin. Sorry.
PPE wasn't it? He isn't just aware of the possibility of May's departure he is very proactively working to make it happen. And so obviously. What has become of the Tory party? I've always feared them because of their unscrupulous contempt for the poor and their raw power in tooth and claw. Now it's because they are a complete ship of fools and they are going to ruin the country permanently through gross incompetence.
Post edited at 13:23
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In reply to Pete Pozman:
And he's doing his utmost, when the ship inevitably goes down, to be neither anywhere near the helm, nor to have a reputation as a quitter. It's become blatantly obvious that he's doing all he can to get 'honourably fired'. The interesting part will be how long May can put up with it before she gives him what he wants. And how much more damage we'll all suffer as a result of personal political manoeuvring without a jot of care for the livelihoods of the people they are supposed to be representing.
And he's doing his utmost, when the ship inevitably goes down, to be neither anywhere near the helm, nor to have a reputation as a quitter. It's become blatantly obvious that he's doing all he can to get 'honourably fired'. The interesting part will be how long May can put up with it before she gives him what he wants. And how much more damage we'll all suffer as a result of personal political manoeuvring without a jot of care for the livelihoods of the people they are supposed to be representing.
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In reply to Pete Pozman:
Actually, it was Literae Humaniores - Classics, essentially. Plenty of juicy examples of treachery and backstabbing Greco-Roman style.
> PPE wasn't it?
Actually, it was Literae Humaniores - Classics, essentially. Plenty of juicy examples of treachery and backstabbing Greco-Roman style.
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In reply to spartacus:
By being a racist, insensitive shit?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/30/boris-johnson-caught-on-ca...
> I think it is posturing and calculation in showing himself as PM material. I think he smells the possibility of Mays departure.
By being a racist, insensitive shit?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/30/boris-johnson-caught-on-ca...
Post edited at 14:48
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In reply to Pete Pozman:
Really? Glad somebody at cabinet level knows a thing or two about hi-viz jackets and ear plugs then.
> I know little Latin. Sorry.
> PPE wasn't it?
Really? Glad somebody at cabinet level knows a thing or two about hi-viz jackets and ear plugs then.
Post edited at 14:55
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In reply to Trevers:
Comments like that make it a bit difficult for me to come down hard on Boris.
My vague impression is he's a somewhat amusing arse. But when his opponents accuse him of being "racist" and "insensitive" it makes me think that perhaps my impression is the result of ridiculous accusations being thrown at him.
Gaff-prone, in his own world, generally not ideal material for a Foreign Sec. But racist? Even insensitive is a stretch, if its for reciting the only bit of poetry you know about Myanmar. Presumably singing some Robbie Williams would also have landed him in trouble.
> By being a racist, insensitive shit?
Comments like that make it a bit difficult for me to come down hard on Boris.
My vague impression is he's a somewhat amusing arse. But when his opponents accuse him of being "racist" and "insensitive" it makes me think that perhaps my impression is the result of ridiculous accusations being thrown at him.
Gaff-prone, in his own world, generally not ideal material for a Foreign Sec. But racist? Even insensitive is a stretch, if its for reciting the only bit of poetry you know about Myanmar. Presumably singing some Robbie Williams would also have landed him in trouble.
Post edited at 16:55
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In reply to David Martin:
It does show a complete lack of competence as foreign secretary, surly one of the understandings as foreign secretary should be not many countries have fond and rosy memories of a sometimes brutal British empire.
The Ambassoder had to intervene to stop him complete cock womble playing to type on the world stage as our representative diminishes all of us
It does show a complete lack of competence as foreign secretary, surly one of the understandings as foreign secretary should be not many countries have fond and rosy memories of a sometimes brutal British empire.
The Ambassoder had to intervene to stop him complete cock womble playing to type on the world stage as our representative diminishes all of us
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In reply to Pete Pozman:
As far as Boris is concerned, the only thing of interest is Project Boris.
He's a self-serving venal shitbag who cares nothing for the country.
> How exactly does his continual undermining of his leader help the national project,
As far as Boris is concerned, the only thing of interest is Project Boris.
He's a self-serving venal shitbag who cares nothing for the country.
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In reply to captain paranoia:
I disagree. I think he feels he's the best bet for the country. I think he genuinely believes that.
Either way... he's not. He's a buffoon.
> He's a self-serving venal shitbag who cares nothing for the country.
I disagree. I think he feels he's the best bet for the country. I think he genuinely believes that.
Either way... he's not. He's a buffoon.
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In reply to David Martin: I can only applaud you for your kind thoughts and optimism of Boris's essential humanity
But I think you're wrong. He is the face of Britain to the outside world and its not great
But I think you're wrong. He is the face of Britain to the outside world and its not great
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In reply to Pete Pozman:
On the reasons to despise that lying, racist, incompetent idiot, his treachery towards May hardly registers !
On the reasons to despise that lying, racist, incompetent idiot, his treachery towards May hardly registers !
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In reply to Pete Pozman:
Hey - leave bustards out of this. They are a great and noble bird and in no way should that utter imbecile be compared to them. He's probably better compared to stained underwear.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_bustard
> Surely we can drop "Judas" as a synonym for traitor and replace it with Boris. How exactly does his continual undermining of his leader help the national project, whatever it is? The man is a complete and utter great bustard.
Hey - leave bustards out of this. They are a great and noble bird and in no way should that utter imbecile be compared to them. He's probably better compared to stained underwear.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_bustard
Post edited at 20:19
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In reply to A Longleat Boulderer:
I don't think he's a buffoon.
I don't think he's as clever as he thinks he is, but he's not a buffoon.
He calculates very carefully what will be best for Boris. He might want to be PM, but it's not so he can make the country a better place, it's just so that Boris can be PM. He's just like Trump.
> Either way... he's not. He's a buffoon
I don't think he's a buffoon.
I don't think he's as clever as he thinks he is, but he's not a buffoon.
He calculates very carefully what will be best for Boris. He might want to be PM, but it's not so he can make the country a better place, it's just so that Boris can be PM. He's just like Trump.
Post edited at 23:59
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In reply to SenzuBean:
Accepting your rebuke without demur. It's a typo. I meant to write "bastard", obviously. And I mean no offence to people born out of wedlock. My intention was wholly to defame Johnson. Simple, accurate descriptions would suffice eg: liar, traitor, monomaniac, fool.
Accepting your rebuke without demur. It's a typo. I meant to write "bastard", obviously. And I mean no offence to people born out of wedlock. My intention was wholly to defame Johnson. Simple, accurate descriptions would suffice eg: liar, traitor, monomaniac, fool.
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In reply to captain paranoia:
Absolutely correCt.
> He's a self-serving venal shitbag who cares nothing for the country.
Absolutely correCt.
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In reply to Pete Pozman:
Johnson is a conman and an embarrassment to Britain. Too many idiots are taken in by him.
Johnson is a conman and an embarrassment to Britain. Too many idiots are taken in by him.
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In reply to Pete Pozman:
I was kidding to be clear
> Accepting your rebuke without demur. It's a typo. I meant to write "bastard", obviously. And I mean no offence to people born out of wedlock. My intention was wholly to defame Johnson. Simple, accurate descriptions would suffice eg: liar, traitor, monomaniac, fool.
I was kidding to be clear
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In reply to Pete Pozman:
His lack of judgement is so god awful it reflects on Theresa May's leadership that she's not fired him. He behaves like a click-bait comedian/journalist rather than a diplomat. I mean how can he possibly get away with:
“There was a young fellow from Ankara, Who was a terrific wankerer.
“Till he sowed his wild oats, With the help of a goat, But he didn’t even stop to thankera.”
or standing in a Buddhist temple with a bunch of local politicians starts to recite a poem which goes on:
'Er petticoat was yaller an' 'er little cap was green,
An' 'er name was Supi-yaw-lat - jes' the same as Theebaw's Queen,
An' I seed her first a-smokin' of a whackin' white cheroot,
An' a-wastin' Christian kisses on an 'eathen idol's foot:
Bloomin' idol made o' mud
Wot they called the Great Gawd Budd
Plucky lot she cared for idols when I kissed 'er where she stud!
On the road to Mandalay...
His lack of judgement is so god awful it reflects on Theresa May's leadership that she's not fired him. He behaves like a click-bait comedian/journalist rather than a diplomat. I mean how can he possibly get away with:
“There was a young fellow from Ankara, Who was a terrific wankerer.
“Till he sowed his wild oats, With the help of a goat, But he didn’t even stop to thankera.”
or standing in a Buddhist temple with a bunch of local politicians starts to recite a poem which goes on:
'Er petticoat was yaller an' 'er little cap was green,
An' 'er name was Supi-yaw-lat - jes' the same as Theebaw's Queen,
An' I seed her first a-smokin' of a whackin' white cheroot,
An' a-wastin' Christian kisses on an 'eathen idol's foot:
Bloomin' idol made o' mud
Wot they called the Great Gawd Budd
Plucky lot she cared for idols when I kissed 'er where she stud!
On the road to Mandalay...
Post edited at 01:48
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In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:
Honest question - who just knows random old poems like that and is able to recite them from memory? He doesn't look like the type of person to spend his time quietly memorizing quaint poems.
> or standing in a Buddhist temple with a bunch of local politicians starts to recite a poem which goes on:
Honest question - who just knows random old poems like that and is able to recite them from memory? He doesn't look like the type of person to spend his time quietly memorizing quaint poems.
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In reply to SenzuBean:
“No,” said the ambassador sternly. “Not appropriate.”
“No?” replied Johnson looking down at his mobile phone. “Good stuff.”
> is able to recite them from memory?
“No,” said the ambassador sternly. “Not appropriate.”
“No?” replied Johnson looking down at his mobile phone. “Good stuff.”
In reply to captain paranoia:
So let's give him what he (appears) to want.
Make him PM.
Watch him squirm as the responsibilities of a very complex job overwhelm him.
Watch as the Tory party collapses into further disarray, openly squabbling over their different, incoherent, visions of Brexit.
Watch as the UKIP loons beat him up as a traitor to the purity of their cause.
So let's give him what he (appears) to want.
Make him PM.
Watch him squirm as the responsibilities of a very complex job overwhelm him.
Watch as the Tory party collapses into further disarray, openly squabbling over their different, incoherent, visions of Brexit.
Watch as the UKIP loons beat him up as a traitor to the purity of their cause.
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In reply to charliesdad:
No, really, let's not.
Let's try to find someone who genuinely has the welfare of the nation at heart, who is competent and capable, and won't cause the country to descend into even further chaos.
I'm not prepared to destroy the country further just to try to disgrace this bastard. Not that disgrace seems to bother him for long.
> Make him PM.
No, really, let's not.
Let's try to find someone who genuinely has the welfare of the nation at heart, who is competent and capable, and won't cause the country to descend into even further chaos.
I'm not prepared to destroy the country further just to try to disgrace this bastard. Not that disgrace seems to bother him for long.
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In reply to charliesdad:
No. No. No.
If you want to see what happens when you vote someone into high office for shits and giggles, look across the pond.
> So let's give him what he (appears) to want.
> Make him PM.
> Watch him squirm as the responsibilities of a very complex job overwhelm him.
> Watch as the Tory party collapses into further disarray, openly squabbling over their different, incoherent, visions of Brexit.
> Watch as the UKIP loons beat him up as a traitor to the purity of their cause.
No. No. No.
If you want to see what happens when you vote someone into high office for shits and giggles, look across the pond.
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In reply to captain paranoia:
Wot, in this cabinet? You're an optimist.
> Let's try to find someone who genuinely has the welfare of the nation at heart, who is competent and capable, and won't cause the country to descend into even further chaos.
Wot, in this cabinet? You're an optimist.
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In reply to Rog Wilko:
I thought we might look a bit further. We might have to extend our search outside the HP...
I thought we might look a bit further. We might have to extend our search outside the HP...
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In reply to Chris the Tall:
I don't think he's racist or an idiot and I find it hard to condemn treachery towards May as such; I just wish it wasn't coming from an unprincipled liar.
> On the reasons to despise that lying, racist, incompetent idiot, his treachery towards May hardly registers !
I don't think he's racist or an idiot and I find it hard to condemn treachery towards May as such; I just wish it wasn't coming from an unprincipled liar.
Post edited at 09:37
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Is that a typo? It is coming from an unprincipled liar!
> I don't think he's racist or a idiot and I find it hard to condemn treachery towards May as such; I just wish it was coming from an unprincipled liar.
Is that a typo? It is coming from an unprincipled liar!
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In reply to Postmanpat:
Yes. Now corrected!
> Is that a typo? It is coming from an unprincipled liar!
Yes. Now corrected!
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Genuine question - why do you think he's not a racist? My only rationale would be that he acts equally badly to everyone.
Is there anyone here from his constituency? Did you vote for him as someone surely did
Genuine question - why do you think he's not a racist? My only rationale would be that he acts equally badly to everyone.
Is there anyone here from his constituency? Did you vote for him as someone surely did
Post edited at 10:28
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In reply to David Martin:
To me, in this day and age, there is a whiff of racism about what he did. Reducing a nation and it's culture to a romanticised vision from a colonial era poem written by a man who'd spent three days there. Coming from our foreign secretary on a diplomatic visit, in a place of worship, with microphones running and in front of international press - it's utterly disgusting.
Overeducated, completely uncultured and undignified, and needs to check his enormous sense of privilege. He's not a buffoon, he's a deeply unpleasant and dangerous individual.
> My vague impression is he's a somewhat amusing arse. But when his opponents accuse him of being "racist" and "insensitive" it makes me think that perhaps my impression is the result of ridiculous accusations being thrown at him.
> Gaff-prone, in his own world, generally not ideal material for a Foreign Sec. But racist? Even insensitive is a stretch, if its for reciting the only bit of poetry you know about Myanmar. Presumably singing some Robbie Williams would also have landed him in trouble.
To me, in this day and age, there is a whiff of racism about what he did. Reducing a nation and it's culture to a romanticised vision from a colonial era poem written by a man who'd spent three days there. Coming from our foreign secretary on a diplomatic visit, in a place of worship, with microphones running and in front of international press - it's utterly disgusting.
Overeducated, completely uncultured and undignified, and needs to check his enormous sense of privilege. He's not a buffoon, he's a deeply unpleasant and dangerous individual.
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In reply to Pete Pozman:
The Times:
Buckingham Palace was left infuriated with Theresa May’s behaviour after her general election disaster plunged the prime minister into a personal “crisis of confidence”.
Senior courtiers were exasperated that May misled the Queen by saying she had a deal with the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP), only to take another 17 days to nail it down, and then went on to breach protocol in the way she announced her intention to form a government.
The delay led to irritation at May’s lack of “courtesy”, as the Queen’s speech was delayed for two days, meaning the state opening of parliament disrupted plans for Royal Ascot.
Following the inferno at Grenfell Tower the week after the election, Downing Street staff became so worried about the prime minister’s welfare…
Tick Tock.
The Vultures are circling.
D
The Times:
Buckingham Palace was left infuriated with Theresa May’s behaviour after her general election disaster plunged the prime minister into a personal “crisis of confidence”.
Senior courtiers were exasperated that May misled the Queen by saying she had a deal with the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP), only to take another 17 days to nail it down, and then went on to breach protocol in the way she announced her intention to form a government.
The delay led to irritation at May’s lack of “courtesy”, as the Queen’s speech was delayed for two days, meaning the state opening of parliament disrupted plans for Royal Ascot.
Following the inferno at Grenfell Tower the week after the election, Downing Street staff became so worried about the prime minister’s welfare…
Tick Tock.
The Vultures are circling.
D
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In reply to wbo:
I'm just happy to assume he's not until I see any evidence to the contrary - same as anyone else,
> Genuine question - why do you think he's not a racist?
I'm just happy to assume he's not until I see any evidence to the contrary - same as anyone else,
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In reply to Trevers:
Odd term. I would have thought that Eton and Oxford was about as good as an academic education gets. What's the cut off point for overeducation. City of London School and Durham? Local comp and local ex-poly? The term does smack of a sort of inverted snobbery.
If Boris is overeducated, I'm in favour of overeducation for all.
> Overeducated.
Odd term. I would have thought that Eton and Oxford was about as good as an academic education gets. What's the cut off point for overeducation. City of London School and Durham? Local comp and local ex-poly? The term does smack of a sort of inverted snobbery.
If Boris is overeducated, I'm in favour of overeducation for all.
Post edited at 11:03
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Overeducated seems just about right in this instance - expressing intellectual snobbery by reciting lines of poetry for his own-indulgent purposes, ignorant of the offence it might cause.
Overeducated seems just about right in this instance - expressing intellectual snobbery by reciting lines of poetry for his own-indulgent purposes, ignorant of the offence it might cause.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
What about his "piccaninnies" and "watermelon smiles" references?
> I'm just happy to assume he's not until I see any evidence to the contrary - same as anyone else,
What about his "piccaninnies" and "watermelon smiles" references?
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In reply to Trevers:
I don't see intellectual snobbery, poor judgement, self indulgence or being an unprincipled two-faced liar as anything to do with "overeducation". Someone else with exactly the same superb education as Boris might be using it for real common good.
> Overeducated seems just about right in this instance - expressing intellectual snobbery by reciting lines of poetry for his own-indulgent purposes, ignorant of the offence it might cause.
I don't see intellectual snobbery, poor judgement, self indulgence or being an unprincipled two-faced liar as anything to do with "overeducation". Someone else with exactly the same superb education as Boris might be using it for real common good.
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In reply to Trevers:
I don't think overeducation can ever be a bad thing - it's how people apply their knowledge. Most people grow out of the tendency to try to look clever by overtly displaying their knowledge in their early twenties. Johnson and Rees-Mogg are still doing it.
I don't think overeducation can ever be a bad thing - it's how people apply their knowledge. Most people grow out of the tendency to try to look clever by overtly displaying their knowledge in their early twenties. Johnson and Rees-Mogg are still doing it.
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In reply to Trevers:
I wasn't aware of them. When were they? I might be prepared to change my opinion!
> What about his "piccaninnies" and "watermelon smiles" references?
I wasn't aware of them. When were they? I might be prepared to change my opinion!
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In reply to Robert Durran:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3571742/If-Blairs-so-good-at-running-the-Congo-let-him-stay-there.html
I suppose I'm using "overeducated" to try and express something slightly different from the usual meaning (i.e. overeducated for a job). I'm suggesting he's educated to a level beyond his intelligence/competence/dignity, and to some extent uses.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3571742/If-Blairs-so-good-at-running-the-Congo-let-him-stay-there.html
I suppose I'm using "overeducated" to try and express something slightly different from the usual meaning (i.e. overeducated for a job). I'm suggesting he's educated to a level beyond his intelligence/competence/dignity, and to some extent uses.
Post edited at 11:28
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In reply to Robert Durran:
You know it's Winchester and New College, really.
> Eton and Oxford was about as good as an academic education gets.
You know it's Winchester and New College, really.
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In reply to Trevers:
I think you're letting your dislike for the fellow cloud your reason. Boris is quite clearly of considerable intelligence and his erudition is part of his appeal to his supporters. Intelligence isn't however a pre-requisite for leadership, although it probably helps. And most highly intelligent people make poor leaders not least because of their instinctive detachment. In fact this is one of the problems with the disproportionate representation of the journalistic profession in the halls of Westminster. I see the mutual attraction but I simply don't see how observing from the sidelines without engagement, no matter how astutely, makes one a candidate to wield power.
> I suppose I'm using "overeducated" to try and express something slightly different from the usual meaning (i.e. overeducated for a job). I'm suggesting he's educated to a level beyond his intelligence/competence/dignity, and to some extent uses.
I think you're letting your dislike for the fellow cloud your reason. Boris is quite clearly of considerable intelligence and his erudition is part of his appeal to his supporters. Intelligence isn't however a pre-requisite for leadership, although it probably helps. And most highly intelligent people make poor leaders not least because of their instinctive detachment. In fact this is one of the problems with the disproportionate representation of the journalistic profession in the halls of Westminster. I see the mutual attraction but I simply don't see how observing from the sidelines without engagement, no matter how astutely, makes one a candidate to wield power.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
He's not over educated he is inappropriately educated for a political leader. His education would work just fine for a journalist or comedian.
He has deep knowledge in areas which are interesting at an intellectual level - such as the ancient Romans and Greeks or Kipling poems - but not particularly relevant to modern life or his present job. He doesn't care about numbers or quantitative as opposed to qualitative argument. For him £350 million doesn't have a specific mathematical meaning what he is actually saying is BIG NUMBER.
> If Boris is overeducated, I'm in favour of overeducation for all.
He's not over educated he is inappropriately educated for a political leader. His education would work just fine for a journalist or comedian.
He has deep knowledge in areas which are interesting at an intellectual level - such as the ancient Romans and Greeks or Kipling poems - but not particularly relevant to modern life or his present job. He doesn't care about numbers or quantitative as opposed to qualitative argument. For him £350 million doesn't have a specific mathematical meaning what he is actually saying is BIG NUMBER.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
He did indeed say that. But he apologised and while plenty of people will seize at the smallest grain to make a racism judgment, its not unheard of to say things with no racist intent but which given the current mood are used to qualify you as a racist.
I very much doubt Boris thinks non-whites are inferior to whites, regardless of those two comments. It smacks of political opportunism to attach the racist tag to him and you can be sure those who despise him have searched high and low to find grounds to call him that. That these two comments are the best they can come up with would rather indicate he isn't racist at all.
Crass, yes. Out of touch with the times, yes. Not ideal for a post where these sorts of comments cannot be made, yes. Racist? No.
> I wasn't aware of them. When were they? I might be prepared to change my opinion!
He did indeed say that. But he apologised and while plenty of people will seize at the smallest grain to make a racism judgment, its not unheard of to say things with no racist intent but which given the current mood are used to qualify you as a racist.
I very much doubt Boris thinks non-whites are inferior to whites, regardless of those two comments. It smacks of political opportunism to attach the racist tag to him and you can be sure those who despise him have searched high and low to find grounds to call him that. That these two comments are the best they can come up with would rather indicate he isn't racist at all.
Crass, yes. Out of touch with the times, yes. Not ideal for a post where these sorts of comments cannot be made, yes. Racist? No.
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In reply to David Martin:
How about xenophobe?
I suspect he thinks anyone non-British is inferior, which would be why he harks back to a time when Britain had an Empire, and is trying to take us back there.
Unfortunately, times have changed. We don't have an Empire, we don't rule the world, and we can't force the world to trade on our terms.
> Crass, yes. Out of touch with the times, yes. Not ideal for a post where these sorts of comments cannot be made, yes. Racist? No.
How about xenophobe?
I suspect he thinks anyone non-British is inferior, which would be why he harks back to a time when Britain had an Empire, and is trying to take us back there.
Unfortunately, times have changed. We don't have an Empire, we don't rule the world, and we can't force the world to trade on our terms.
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In reply to Pete Pozman:
So how long before TM sacks Boris?
Would that inevitably lead to another election?(God Forbid)
So how long before TM sacks Boris?
Would that inevitably lead to another election?(God Forbid)
In reply to BnB:
Oops, I didn't finish writing what I was typing there.
I'm actually not entirely convinced of his intelligence, aside from his aptitude for learning languages. He's good with words, certainly, but the arguments he uses I find to be simplistic or just false. Clever certainly, but I don't see any evidence of any particularly deep intelligence, and I don't believe that the ability to refer to classical literature or use obscure words point to that. In terms of political intelligence, it's clear his only ambition is the furthering of his own career and I believe he's overplayed his hand. That's probably for the best as far as the Conservatives are concerned - a lot of talk about their need to appeal in a deeper way to young voters. Boris as PM will not endear the Tories to my generation at all.
And you're correct, I do nurse rather a strong dislike of Boris personally
> I think you're letting your dislike for the fellow cloud your reason. Boris is quite clearly of considerable intelligence and his erudition is part of his appeal to his supporters. Intelligence isn't however a pre-requisite for leadership, although it probably helps. And most highly intelligent people make poor leaders not least because of their instinctive detachment. In fact this is one of the problems with the disproportionate representation of the journalistic profession in the halls of Westminster. I see the mutual attraction but I simply don't see how observing from the sidelines without engagement, no matter how astutely, makes one a candidate to wield power.
Oops, I didn't finish writing what I was typing there.
I'm actually not entirely convinced of his intelligence, aside from his aptitude for learning languages. He's good with words, certainly, but the arguments he uses I find to be simplistic or just false. Clever certainly, but I don't see any evidence of any particularly deep intelligence, and I don't believe that the ability to refer to classical literature or use obscure words point to that. In terms of political intelligence, it's clear his only ambition is the furthering of his own career and I believe he's overplayed his hand. That's probably for the best as far as the Conservatives are concerned - a lot of talk about their need to appeal in a deeper way to young voters. Boris as PM will not endear the Tories to my generation at all.
And you're correct, I do nurse rather a strong dislike of Boris personally
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In reply to captain paranoia:
I wouldn't be that harsh.
He seemed proud of his Turkish roots, and doesn't really strike me as someone who longs for the worst excesses of Empire. Although I suspect he would allow a few eye-rolling or gasp-inducing aspects through if he had his way.
I know empire is a dirty word. But I can understand that conservative-minded individuals long for that imagined-history. And I don't begrudge them the nostalgia for an era that was considered a high-water mark in culture for its time. It is possible to separate out good from bad, to look at empire as not all bad. We celebrate renaissance and baroque culture, times that wrought huge amounts of death. Much the same way you don't look at a friend or family-member and discount all their qualities on account of their inevitable character-flaws. None of that means ignoring the evils that occurred either.
Colonialism is a bit of a hot topic at the moment, following the Third World Quarterly furore just a few weeks ago. I like to take a more nuanced stance on it as a whole. Our self-flagellation over past wrongs feeds right in to the hands of third-world despots who love attributing the ills they cause themselves to Western colonialism. Putting a lumbering bufoon like Boris in with the likes of them, by accusing him of racism, loses some perspective on how bad real racists are I think.
> How about xenophobe?
I wouldn't be that harsh.
He seemed proud of his Turkish roots, and doesn't really strike me as someone who longs for the worst excesses of Empire. Although I suspect he would allow a few eye-rolling or gasp-inducing aspects through if he had his way.
I know empire is a dirty word. But I can understand that conservative-minded individuals long for that imagined-history. And I don't begrudge them the nostalgia for an era that was considered a high-water mark in culture for its time. It is possible to separate out good from bad, to look at empire as not all bad. We celebrate renaissance and baroque culture, times that wrought huge amounts of death. Much the same way you don't look at a friend or family-member and discount all their qualities on account of their inevitable character-flaws. None of that means ignoring the evils that occurred either.
Colonialism is a bit of a hot topic at the moment, following the Third World Quarterly furore just a few weeks ago. I like to take a more nuanced stance on it as a whole. Our self-flagellation over past wrongs feeds right in to the hands of third-world despots who love attributing the ills they cause themselves to Western colonialism. Putting a lumbering bufoon like Boris in with the likes of them, by accusing him of racism, loses some perspective on how bad real racists are I think.
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In reply to David Martin:
I'm not one who thinks the British Empire was universally bad.
But it's gone, and nostalgia and wishful thinking cannot bring it back.
> I know empire is a dirty word. But I can understand that conservative-minded individuals long for that imagined-history.
I'm not one who thinks the British Empire was universally bad.
But it's gone, and nostalgia and wishful thinking cannot bring it back.
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In reply to Pete Pozman:
He's a constant and blatant liar. Unfortunately that seems to make little difference as it seems thats ok in modern politics.
He's a constant and blatant liar. Unfortunately that seems to make little difference as it seems thats ok in modern politics.
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In reply to captain paranoia:
Nor does it make someone a racist or a xenophobe , even if they are a shallow dishonest charlatan.
> I'm not one who thinks the British Empire was universally bad.
> But it's gone, and nostalgia and wishful thinking cannot bring it back.
Nor does it make someone a racist or a xenophobe , even if they are a shallow dishonest charlatan.
Post edited at 17:39
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In reply to wbo:
As his constituency is Henley-on-Thames, I think they'll go on voting for him in their tens of thousands. Hell will definitely freeze over before H-o-T fails to elect a Tory.
> Is there anyone here from his constituency? Did you vote for him as someone surely did
As his constituency is Henley-on-Thames, I think they'll go on voting for him in their tens of thousands. Hell will definitely freeze over before H-o-T fails to elect a Tory.
In reply to Rog Wilko:
He's Mp for Uxbridge & South Ruislip. Got parachuted in to get him back to the Commons after
2 wasted terms as London mayor.
He's Mp for Uxbridge & South Ruislip. Got parachuted in to get him back to the Commons after
2 wasted terms as London mayor.
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In reply to Rog Wilko:
His constituency is now Uxbridge and South Ruislip. Has been for the last two elections, since May 2015, after the last boundary changes. I think it is a fairly safe seat unfortunately.
His constituency is now Uxbridge and South Ruislip. Has been for the last two elections, since May 2015, after the last boundary changes. I think it is a fairly safe seat unfortunately.
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In reply to Yanis Nayu & Captain Paranoia;
I don't think he poses a real danger to anyone except possibly his own side; it doesn't actually matter whether it's Boris, Theresa, or any of the current crop of senior Tories; they cannot deliver Brexit and they have no appetite to deliver anything else. They are (almost literally) paralysed.
Rather than watch the slow death of the current Government, let's speed up the car crash and get to an election.
I don't think he poses a real danger to anyone except possibly his own side; it doesn't actually matter whether it's Boris, Theresa, or any of the current crop of senior Tories; they cannot deliver Brexit and they have no appetite to deliver anything else. They are (almost literally) paralysed.
Rather than watch the slow death of the current Government, let's speed up the car crash and get to an election.
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In reply to charliesdad:
How is an election going to help right now? Both the main parties are offering a car crash. Yes, it might be mildly amusing to see Corbyn react to being in a similarly impossible situation as May is in now, but what we really want is some hope of a better future, and neither of them seems to have any idea how to deliver that.
> Rather than watch the slow death of the current Government, let's speed up the car crash and get to an election.
How is an election going to help right now? Both the main parties are offering a car crash. Yes, it might be mildly amusing to see Corbyn react to being in a similarly impossible situation as May is in now, but what we really want is some hope of a better future, and neither of them seems to have any idea how to deliver that.
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In reply to David Martin:
His racism is entirely casual. Just like his opinions concerning Liverpudlians, his references to piccaninis, watermelon smiles, goat shagging etc etc are delivered with no thought or regard for others' sensitivities or bad consequences. Just like other monsters hiding in plain sight his barely suppressed constant smirk reveals exactly what he thinks of us
How he can be tolerated let alone trusted in a sophisticated society like ours is utterly baffling.
His racism is entirely casual. Just like his opinions concerning Liverpudlians, his references to piccaninis, watermelon smiles, goat shagging etc etc are delivered with no thought or regard for others' sensitivities or bad consequences. Just like other monsters hiding in plain sight his barely suppressed constant smirk reveals exactly what he thinks of us
How he can be tolerated let alone trusted in a sophisticated society like ours is utterly baffling.
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In reply to Postmanpat:
Being indifferent and dismissive of racism and xenophobia just to achieve political aims is probably as bad as being a racist and a xenophobe.
In fact it may well be worse, at least the racist or the xenophobe is sincere (although misguided) in his hatred or fear, often born out of ignorance.
Boris, however, like many of the leave voters, may not be a xenophobe or a racist, but he doesn’t really care if EU citizens get massively screwed in the brexit process, he sees it as unimportant and secondary, and if they need to be screwed so that he can achieve his political aims, so be it.
> Nor does it make someone a racist or a xenophobe , even if they are a shallow dishonest charlatan.
Being indifferent and dismissive of racism and xenophobia just to achieve political aims is probably as bad as being a racist and a xenophobe.
In fact it may well be worse, at least the racist or the xenophobe is sincere (although misguided) in his hatred or fear, often born out of ignorance.
Boris, however, like many of the leave voters, may not be a xenophobe or a racist, but he doesn’t really care if EU citizens get massively screwed in the brexit process, he sees it as unimportant and secondary, and if they need to be screwed so that he can achieve his political aims, so be it.
Post edited at 21:17
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In reply to SenzuBean:
On the road to Mandalay
Where the flying fishes play
And the dawn comes up like thunder
Out of China cross the bay
And I didn't Google it!
On the road to Mandalay
Where the flying fishes play
And the dawn comes up like thunder
Out of China cross the bay
> Honest question - who just knows random old poems like that and is able to recite them from memory? He doesn't look like the type of person to spend his time quietly memorizing quaint poems.
And I didn't Google it!
Post edited at 22:23
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In reply to SenzuBean:
Most people of a certain age, maybe particularly those who went to private prep school and Eton.
Five and twenty ponies,
Trotting through the dark
Brandy for the Parson, 'Baccy for the Clerk.
Them that asks no questions isn't told a lie
Watch the wall my darling while the Gentlemen go by !
Most people of a certain age, maybe particularly those who went to private prep school and Eton.
Five and twenty ponies,
Trotting through the dark
Brandy for the Parson, 'Baccy for the Clerk.
Them that asks no questions isn't told a lie
Watch the wall my darling while the Gentlemen go by !
1
In reply to Pete Pozman:
Anyone who brings out the nastiness of the left, as shown in a few posts in this thread, cannot be all bad.
Anyone who brings out the nastiness of the left, as shown in a few posts in this thread, cannot be all bad.
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In reply to Big Ger:
Really?
Which posts, in particular, "bring out the nastiness of the left"?
> the nastiness of the left, as shown in a few posts in this thread
Really?
Which posts, in particular, "bring out the nastiness of the left"?
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In reply to captain paranoia:
Post 2 ..
Post 2 ..
> .. "If you removed all that is good in Britain, leaving only blimpish sludge, and emptied the residue into one man."
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In reply to Big Ger:
It's not just the lefties:
"Only been at the Tory Party conference 15 minutes and an MP has already come up to me and called Boris Johnson"a fat c*nt"" Grant Tucker, via Twitter
> Anyone who brings out the nastiness of the left, as shown in a few posts in this thread, cannot be all bad.
It's not just the lefties:
"Only been at the Tory Party conference 15 minutes and an MP has already come up to me and called Boris Johnson"a fat c*nt"" Grant Tucker, via Twitter
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In reply to Pete Pozman:
Watching Theresa May this morning, everytime she's asked about Boris she affects a sort of half chuckle ; everytime...
She's obviously been coached. Is that working do you think?
Watching Theresa May this morning, everytime she's asked about Boris she affects a sort of half chuckle ; everytime...
She's obviously been coached. Is that working do you think?
In reply to Pete Pozman:
She did this a lot during the GE campaign too when asked about Corbyn. I guess it's her way of trying to show she's completely unphased by it. It's not particularly convincing...
> Watching Theresa May this morning, everytime she's asked about Boris she affects a sort of half chuckle ; everytime...
> She's obviously been coached. Is that working do you think?
She did this a lot during the GE campaign too when asked about Corbyn. I guess it's her way of trying to show she's completely unphased by it. It's not particularly convincing...
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In reply to Pete Pozman:
Boris as our commander in chief. Could he possibly trump Trump?
doubtful, ...but still a hilarious concoction of hairdo over substance
Boris as our commander in chief. Could he possibly trump Trump?
doubtful, ...but still a hilarious concoction of hairdo over substance
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