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Driving to Chamonix in Winter

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 Fredt 04 Oct 2017
Driven to Cham dozens of times, but never in winter.

Thinking of driving there this January for a couple of months.
What will the roads be like in the valley, are they cleared quickly?
Unfortunately I don't have a 4WD, will chains suffice?

What about the journey there, I usually avoid the Autoroutes, would they be a safer bet this time?

Any advice welcome.

Rigid Raider 04 Oct 2017
In reply to Fredt:

I would imagine that the road as far as the tunnel will be kept clear whatever falls from the sky, and further up the valley will be cleared very soon after snow. I would also imagine that the "Limite de Déneigement" signs are somewhere up the valley beyond Le Tour so you wouldn't need winter tyres or chains in the valley. Why don't you go online and buy a set of winter tyres for the car? They aren't expensive, they are amazing in winter conditions and a legal requirement on French Alpine roads anyway. You might be grateful for them on a couple of mornings just to get out of the street. You can always sell them on Eblag afterwards. Get some steel wheels for the car and a tyre fitter will fit and balance them for £10-£20 each.
 Pete Houghton 04 Oct 2017
In reply to Fredt:
We've had temperatures of -25oC in the valley in January, February, March before, so if weather is bad, the roads can be terrible. Main roads are usually kept clear as the snow falls and they are pretty damned efficient, but depending on where you are living, you might not see a snowplow until hours after new snow, and if you are up in the arse-end of nowhere, it might even be the day after.

4WD isn't necessary, but snow tires or chains absolutely are, and there are police checks up and down the valley to make sure you are kitted out. If you don't want to fork out for snow tires then chains will do of course, and we have had winters recently where you'd only need them a handful of times in the few months you'll be here, but if it is a bumper snow year with regular dumps down to valley level, as some people (the same people as always...) are predicting, then putting chains on and off will get pretty old pretty quick.

Personally, if I were out for more than a few weeks in the middle of winter, I'd look at getting winter tires over chains.

(PS, one of my favourite storm-day activities, other than touring up into the forests for some private powder skiing, is to stand outside the Stone Bar in Argentiere with a mug of vin chaud, watching the carnage of people overestimating the abilities of their vehicles in bad weather... cars, coaches, trucks, everything. It's equal parts terrible and hilarious to watch a coachload of Spanish tourists slide backwards into and through a line of six parked cars, just because the driver thought he was good enough to not need chains. Don't be like him.)
Post edited at 12:12
 Trangia 04 Oct 2017
In reply to Fredt:
Word of warning about carrying skis on your roof rack on salt gritted roads. Unless you bag them or similarly protect them, the spray will ruin your edges, as I found out to my cost driving down through France in snow conditions.

Also fitting chains can be a real pain at times when your wheels are covered with road grime. Take a pair of Marigold gloves to stop your hands getting filthy.
Post edited at 12:14
 GrahamD 04 Oct 2017
In reply to Fredt:

Unless you are really unlucky and its bucketing snow whilst actually driving, roads will be fine. They get cleared really quickly.
 yorkshireman 04 Oct 2017
In reply to Fredt:

I've lived at 1200m in the Alps for 7 years now and we get a fair bit of snow (we've got a small ski station in the village).

I think in all that time I've put snow chains on four or five times and these have all been periods where I've had to get the car out of a snowed-in situation rather than having to stop and change as conditions deteriorate. Winter tyres will get you out of 95% of scenarios and most of the time are enough. In fact I got a Land Rover last year with 4WD and it snowed before I got winter tyres fitted to it. My 2WD Passat with winter tyres fared much better during that time.

I'd just go for winter tyres anyway. Even in the UK they'll be useful in the wet and cold and if you're dong 1000km down the motorway potentially in the wet then I'd be happier with them on. They're not really added expense as you extend the life of your summer tyres. They're the one thing holding you to the road so it doesn't matter how good the rest of the vehicle is if the tyres aren't doing their job.

Then just pick up some snow chains in a supermarket for 20€ if it looks like its going to snow.

As for avoiding autoroutes - well unless money is a huge issue (but you're going on a skiing holiday so I guess some perspective here) then the journey will be less stressful, quicker and far, far safer on the autoroute. Order a télépéage online so you can pay using the electronic tag and then you'll save a lot of time at tolls.
 rj_townsend 04 Oct 2017
In reply to Fredt:
I drove down in February using the peage. Winter tyres were beneficial and had no need for anything more, although I had snow socks and snow chains in the boot.

Make sure your engine antifreeze is up to the temperatures likely to be experienced, as well as your screenwash - burst tubes would be inconvenient.
Post edited at 13:16
 nniff 04 Oct 2017
In reply to Fredt:

Get some winter tyres - if your car is a keeper they'll get enough use - ours go on the cars in November and get removed in April usually. Most of the time, ordinary tyres would do, but when we get weather you're hard pushed around here as the roads aren't cleared. I just have tyres, and it costs me about £10 each to get them swapped over. There is the initial outlay of course, but thereafter it settles down.

A pair of chains costs a bit more than a tank of fuel
Rigid Raider 04 Oct 2017
In reply to Fredt:

On snow a front-wheel drive car with reasonably narrow winter tyres (for high ground pressure) will out-climb a poncy Land Rover with 4WD and big wide tyres, every time. If the engine is a heavier diesel the car has even greater advantage.

If your car comes with no spare wheel and just the boot kit with the useless latex and compressor, throw them in the attic then go on Ebay and buy a boot kit for the same car with jack and wheelbrace and in summer, keep one winter wheel in the boot and vice-versa in winter, so that you've always got a proper spare wheel.

 HammondR 04 Oct 2017
In reply to Fredt:
I spend 4 months in Chamonix every winter, and wouldn't dream of going without winter tyres.

If you are out there for a couple of months you will undoubtedly want to drive through the tunnel to Courmayeur, and perhaps some of the other places in the Aosta valley. Winter tyres are a legal requirement there into April.

In the last 3 years I never once needed chains (though my car is 4 wheel drive) but I carry a cheap set in case the Bobbies want to check as carrying them can be compulsory on some alpine roads, if I am not mistaken.

If you are intending to ski, the annual/seasonal passes will be available shortly. Don't miss the deadline as prices more than double if you do.

I tend to use the autoroute except the section between Chalons and Chaumont, because 1) I usually break the journey at a Gite around there and 2) the roads are pretty fast on that section.

Have a great time.
 Fruit 04 Oct 2017
In reply to Fredt:

Don't forget to check whether you'll need a crit air sticker

https://www.crit-air.fr/en/information-about-the-critair-vignette/french-en...
 pec 04 Oct 2017
In reply to yorkshireman:

> Order a télépéage online so you can pay using the electronic tag and then you'll save a lot of time at tolls. >

Many of the peages have been removed from the route down to Chamonix in recent years (you still have to pay but the gaps between them have got bigger!) so you hardly have to stop much at all now. The time saving of a telepeage pass is neglidgible if you're only looking at one return journey.
You also have to pay to get a telepeage pass. There's a 6 euro annual fee, 10 euro application fee and 5 euro fee for each month you use it (plus a 20 euro refundable security deposit) so you'd be looking at 26 euros to save you about 5-10mins and you don't get any discount off the tolls which are expensive enough anyway (roughly £100 for the return trip).

I'm surprised that as a Yorkshireman you would be offering such advice

 yorkshireman 05 Oct 2017
In reply to pec:

> You also have to pay to get a telepeage pass. There's a 6 euro annual fee, 10 euro application fee and 5 euro fee for each month you use it (plus a 20 euro refundable security deposit) so you'd be looking at 26 euros to save you about 5-10mins and you don't get any discount off the tolls which are expensive enough anyway (roughly £100 for the return trip).

Its 5 years since I set up my account and to be honest I've never reviewed it so those figures are surprise and to be fair it may have changed since then. I understood it was just 1€ extra per month of use but now it seems to be 1,7€ so must have gone up (not sure where 5€ comes from) and no annual fee.

> I'm surprised that as a Yorkshireman you would be offering such advice

Maybe the costs are different if you're buying from outside France. Having the tag is definitely worthwhile from my perspective especially around holiday or peak times when you can save 15 minutes at a peage. Most of my costs get reimbursed through work anyway.
 pec 05 Oct 2017
In reply to yorkshireman:
> Maybe the costs are different if you're buying from outside France. Having the tag is definitely worthwhile from my perspective especially around holiday or peak times when you can save 15 minutes at a peage. Most of my costs get reimbursed through work anyway. >

Unless you have a French bank account here's how it works
https://www.saneftolling.co.uk/support/faq/support-Faq.List/#1.0.

Scrolling down to 1.3 does suggest its cheaper for France resisdents.
Post edited at 14:41

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