/ Rocks on rope...

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beardy mike - on 07 Oct 2017
I never owned any of these as I never saw the point, but I'm wondering now whether there was an advantage? To my mind it would seem they would be more difficult to place and more difficult to clean. On the flip side they might have been a few grams lighter, would be less likely to flick out and would not kink. But were there advantages I'm not aware of (other than being rethreadable therefore appealing to the ever money tight alpinist amongst us ;))
Wayne S - on 08 Oct 2017
In reply to beardy mike:
Hi Mike,

In absence of any other response. I have never used corded Rocks but have often wondered about them. I usually see them hanging on long cord alongside the stripe of a pair or Ronhills.

So really the bonus points would be those of Hexs on tape over wired hexes to my mind.

The malus points being that the corded approach does not work with small nuts. (5.5mm cord up?).

For me I think hexs are becoming redundant with wired nuts up to 14 and narrow head width cams. Perhaps with the exception of wired ( axe proof) versions in winter. You could make the same conclusion in regard to corded rocks.

That said if you only wanted to carry very few pieces to protect relatively easy ground a couple of nuts on long cord and a hex or two would save the weight of Quickdraws and double as slings. Though I certainly wouldn't buy instead of modern versions.

Wayne



Coel Hellier - on 08 Oct 2017
In reply to beardy mike:

I used to climb with Rocks 6 to 9 on cord. The main advantage is that it saved the weight of a quickdraw (the cord was long enough that it didn't need one).

The main reason I don't use them so much now is that the weight of a quickdraw has come down a lot, to about half what it was.
beardy mike - on 08 Oct 2017
In reply to beardy mike:

I mean I know that WC stopped doing it because of those interfereing bods at the EU who banned knots ;) but I was curious about rocks on slings - it'd be an obvious alternative but then I was wondering what the point would be. I calculated the weight of a 3.5mm steel loop plus ferrule to be about 10grammes and I know that a sewn sling is about the same... so wouldn't really be a weight gain unless as you say they were long... I guess they would be less prone to flicking out but other than that I can't think of a real advantage...
AlanLittle - on 08 Oct 2017
In reply to Coel Hellier:
Good point about modern quickdraws negating the weight saving, hadn't thought of that. I suppose also with the US being a large part of the market, on single ropes you typically need more extension than with doubles.

I suspect the death knell was the advent of spectra/dyneema etc. cord. Basically infinite strength for all climbing intents & purposes, but a swine to cut & knot reliably compared to nylon. Then there was the move to them being sold with pre-fitted cord: I wonder if that was more expensive for the manufacturer, manually tying & checking a knot being more work than swaging a wire?

All part of a sad trend away from expecting climbers to take responsibility for their own safety though. But given that there have been deaths through people failing to clip karabiners onto quickdraws properly ...
Post edited at 10:09
baron - on 08 Oct 2017
In reply to beardy mike:

You can carry half a dozen on one karabiner.
When you've placed one you don't need a quickdraw just one karabiner to clip the rope into.
So theoretically you don't need as many karabiners. Or quickdraws.
You can also pull the cord through the nut and use it as a quickdraw if you need to.
And they don't lift out as easily as wired nuts.
And you can rethread them. With fancy, colourful cord.
And they swing around like a skirt.
What's not to like?
beardy mike - on 08 Oct 2017
In reply to AlanLittle:

Well you say that but Rockcentrics were put on sling around the same time they were selling rocks prethreaded with tied cord. I guess the slings were fatter in those days at 15mm rather than the 10mm which is common place these days...
Dave Kerr - on 08 Oct 2017
In reply to AlanLittle:

> All part of a sad trend away from expecting climbers to take responsibility for their own safety though. But given that there have been deaths through people failing to clip karabiners onto quickdraws properly ...

What an odd comment. I don't believe climbers are any less responsible now than in the past, after all the gear manufacturers aren't there telling you what to do when you're actually using it. As for the last sentence, there have always been accidents caused by improper use of equipment and I suspect there always will be.

mkean - on 08 Oct 2017
In reply to beardy mike:
I have one, which normally only makes it onto my rack when I'm worrying a beginner (goes nicely with the mahogany hexes). It does seem less prone to lifting when placed badly due to the extra flexibility but they are harder to clean as a result!
beardy mike - on 08 Oct 2017
In reply to mkean:

That's what I thought. Thanks everybody - seems like there's not really good reason other than that's how they were at the start of times...
Howard J - on 08 Oct 2017
In reply to beardy mike:

When I started climbing the only nuts which were on wire were the sizes which were too small to be threaded onto rope. The swaging was very bulky, and they were prone to lifting out as quickdraws hadn't been invented
Dave Kerr - on 08 Oct 2017
In reply to surajvines:

I tried number 4 but it got me arrested.

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