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Violinist - on 10 Oct 2017
Mike505's topic got me thinking (apologies for the title). A few times I've been proper psyched for a route, stars, great write up in the book etc. and then it turns out to be a mare or just a bit sh*te. Often wonder if the routes are actually bad, or if the mare had was circumstantial to me. Anyway, anyone have any similar experiences on routes with a good write up? We can make an "anti-ticklist" if you will.

These two came to mind but I'm sure there've been more:
Pine Wall (HS 4a) for me. Just felt a bit sh*te
Scharnhorst (E1 5b) a mare in so many ways.
Greasy Prusiks on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

Almost everything at symonds yat fits that description ;).
Hardonicus - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

Gillercombe Buttress (S 3c) I keep meaning to go back and see if it really was as underwhelming as I thought at the time.
Violinist - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Hardonicus:

Ah a classic rock route! I've haven't done either but heard that The Long Climb (VS) is another classic rock that is a mare.
Dave Ferguson - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

that's the problem with the star system.
It depends on many more factors than the guidebook writers perceived opinion, a lot of which is based on historical significance and popularity rather than "quality".

Who you're with, the weather, your "psyche" will have a much greater impact on whether you enjoy the route or not.
Even doing the best 3 star route will feel a bit carp if you're cold and miserable and climbing with someone else who is equally cold and miserable.

Take stars with an increasingly large pinch of salt and plan your venue and route choice around the prevailing wind and weather forecast. Most importantly climb with people you can have a crack with. The most dingy hole in the ground can feel great on those days, except perhaps this one: Eston Nab
radddogg - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

Poor Man's Peuterey (S 4a), granted it was wet but I didn't expect to need to be an arborist to climb it
Violinist - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Dave Ferguson:

Ahaha that place looks hilarious! Love the description.
mrphilipoldham - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

Eureka (VS 4c)

Top 50 in Rockfax for some bizarre reason. One nice move to the arĂȘte surrounded by relative disinterest.
wbo - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist: the long climb is potentially a mare as it's long, scary and a bit loose, but probably a full 'experience'.

I'd contrast that with climbs that are highly rated but turn out too meandering rambles with mediocre climbing (Dow Crag springs to mind)

Simon Caldwell - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

Somehow I knew that Gillercombe Buttress would get a mention, it seems to be one of those routes that's fashionable on UKC to hate.

I thought it was brilliant.

Though not quite as brilliant as Poor Man's Peuterey.

And Eureka is IMO a classic.
Smelly Fox - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

Great - Bow Combination (HVS 5a)

Mostly scrambling apart from the slab at the start, with one semi interesting sequence for the crux. Very disappointing considering all the stars it gets in the guide.
krikoman - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:
Troutdale Pinnacle (S)

My memory of it was it was pretty poor, but I've just been over to my logbook to find I said it was great!!

So what do I know.

I didn't like the polish at teh top, but the view was good.
Violinist - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

Just remembered this one. Bold, chossy, loose, wet, meandering, poor gear, rope drag etc. Kestrel Crack and Beech Wall neighbouring it are so much better.
Twisted Rib (VD)
MFB - on 10 Oct 2017
Lloydfletch - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

Maybe I was off route, but Raven Crag Buttress gets 3 stars and felt shit to me.
Dandan82 - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

Medusa Falls (7a)
Perhaps it was good once upon a time, but now it's a shiny mess, yet people are still raving about it.
Mike505 on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

Is the aim to climb all these?

I think Excalibur (VS 4c) but maybe its just because I fell off it last year on second.
Simon Caldwell - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:
We've now had two more of my favourite routes (Troutdale Pinnacle and Excalibur), so I've added Twisted Rib to my Wishlist!
Post edited at 15:14
Violinist - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Mike505:

Someone might want to! Could be like the "type 2 fun" wishlist (although tbh there's a lot on there I want to do)
Violinist - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

You have as well hahaha

https://imgur.com/a/TTq8E
gav - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

Centipede (S 4a)

About 10 meters of climbing surrounded by 4 pitches of crap.
Violinist - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

Strawberry Crack (S)

One move just off the ground. The rest a walk on sand. "Classic of the crag"...

Atleast on neigbouring Strawberry Direct (E2 6a) the one move is worthwhile (first heel hook I did in anger) before you reach the sand to walk on up.

(Granted it's a tiny quarry but there are other routes far more worthy of such starring)
nniff - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

Buccaneer at Swanage. Hateful thing.

Buccaneer (E2 5b)#overview
Mike-W-99 on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to gav:

Yes, utter gash.
Direct looked good value though.
beardy mike - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Mike-W-99:

I used to think the chasm on the Buchaille was a but overegged until I did the first part of Clachaig Gully. It was f*cking awful, swinging from heather and eventually escaping to the realative safety of the side of the hill. I later found out that that section is normaly bypassed these days. Honestly, it was my 30th birthday and I thought I was going to die nearly all day long. It was marvelous.
Michael Gordon - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

I can't understand why Red Pencil Direct is in Classic Rock. A one star single pitch route. Yes it's a nice place, but we aren't short of those in the UK. You could pick just about any starred multi-pitch mountain route and it would be better!
Webster - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

+1 for the long climb on Ben Nevis... that face should be steered clear of out of winter.
pec on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Smelly Fox:

> "Great - Bow Combination")]

> Mostly scrambling apart from the slab at the start, with one semi interesting sequence for the crux. Very disappointing considering all the stars it gets in the guide. >

Funny, I did that this year and thought it was great, continuously interesting climbing on all the pitches , even the easy bits, no veg and no poor rock in 500 feet on a north facing mountain crag is pretty unusual. I thought it was much better than Great Slab itself which peters out into a non event after the 40 foot corner (and did have some loose rock).

Eston Nab, whilst clearly not the best crag on the NY Moors has a strange appeal with an odd combination of nature and industry juxtaposed, helped by its lofty postion above a steep drop down to the flatlands below which gives it a feel like you're almost airborne.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=143260

A big disappointment to me was The Thorn on Beeston Tor, a scrappy first pitch and a mediocre second apart from the one move crux. One star at most, not a three star classic.

Simon Caldwell - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Michael Gordon:

> I can't understand why Red Pencil Direct is in Classic Rock

Probably because the true direct (and true classic) is Gladiator, but at VS was too hard for Classic Rock.
Michael Gordon - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Haven't done it. Is it really that good?
Simon Caldwell - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Michael Gordon:

I thought so. Though it's possible that it was just in comparison to the other two routes ;-)
Red Rover - on 10 Oct 2017
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

I thought it fell down or have I dreamed it?
Simon Caldwell - on 11 Oct 2017
In reply to Red Rover:

Brass Monkey (a couple of routes to the right) partly fell down a while ago. But as far as I know, Gladiator is still there. It's been logged a couple of times this summer, though that doesn't necessarily mean much, routes quite often get logged which no longer exist!
Violinist - on 11 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

So so far we have:

Pine Wall
Scharnhorst
Almost Everything at Symonds Yat (!)
Gillercombe Buttress
The Long Climb
Eston Nab
Poor Man's Peuterey
Eureka
Dow Crag
Great Bow combination
Troutdale Pinnacle
Twisted Rib
Raven Crag Buttress
Medusa Falls
Excalibur
Centepide
Strawberry Crack
Buccaneer
Clachaig Gully..?
Red Pencil Direct
The Thorn

Could call it "routes that are or have been good probably, but someone found them shite one time"

@simoncaldwell a ticklist for you perhaps? Ahaha
baron - on 11 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

Anybody who thinks Poor Man's Peuterey is rubbish needs their head testing.
radddogg - on 11 Oct 2017
In reply to baron:

In retrospect, the main pitch was good but I was very disappointed with the amount of tree climbing involved
baron - on 11 Oct 2017
In reply to radddogg:
I have to concede that the first pitch does have its fair share of tree climbing.
Red Rover - on 11 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

A lot of the grit routes in classic rock seem like odd selections to be honest but maybe the book tried to make it more interesting than the usual collection of Shiny Stanage Severes
Violinist - on 11 Oct 2017
In reply to radddogg:

Was it a TREE-mendous outing?
DubyaJamesDubya - on 11 Oct 2017
In reply to Smelly Fox:


> Mostly scrambling apart from the slab at the start, with one semi interesting sequence for the crux. Very disappointing considering all the stars it gets in the guide.

But did you really hate it or think it was shite?
tmawer - on 11 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

The whole of Dow Crag.......seems a bit harsh!!
Violinist - on 11 Oct 2017
In reply to tmawer:

Wouldn't know, never been, but that's what wbo implied. Certainly helps bulk out the list, but some specifics would be nice!
Simon Caldwell - on 11 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

It certainly fits with the rest of the list, which appears to be mainly classics that someone has taken a strange dislike to!
Violinist - on 11 Oct 2017
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Each to their own eh! That was kinda one of the points of my op, to explore the subjective nature of any one person's experience on a route, having found a couple of well reputed lines a bit disappointing. Perhaps one can take pleasure from enjoying these routes in spite of what others have said. Although imho you may have a hard time doing that when you make it to Twisted Rib!
Simon Caldwell - on 11 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

I'm looking forward to it
We've climbed there a few times, makes a convenient stop-off or short last day when returning south.
Violinist - on 11 Oct 2017
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Great crag! Where I learned my craft. If you haven't made it over I'd recommend checking the cave crags, 5 mins away. The Hood and F*ck Face on lower are super and there are some impressive hard lines on upper. Polney itself is getting a bit polished but doesn't detract much.
olddirtydoggy - on 11 Oct 2017
In reply to Mike505:
Thats a rotten line as the rock is often very green but...... get that after a good dry spell and theres not many corner cracks at the grade of such quality. I got lucky last year.

For me anything at Willersley castle rocks is just a jungle fest. Mud, loose rock and greenery with a muddy base to belay from.
Post edited at 16:46
Kevster - on 11 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

Valkyrie
Absolute tosh imo.
Kevster - on 11 Oct 2017
In reply to olddirtydoggy:

Valkyrie
Absolute tosh imo
Smelly Fox - on 11 Oct 2017
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

Yeah, thought it was shite. Way more interesting routes for that grade throughout the country.

It would hardly get a star on the Dubh Loch or the Ben for example.
radddogg - on 12 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

Has anyone been up Primitive Route (VD) at Cloggy? 3 star classic VD. More like sandbag, grotty, gopping, vegetated bag of arse.
Simon Caldwell - on 12 Oct 2017
In reply to radddogg:

That one was on my wishlist already ;-)
Eric9Points - on 12 Oct 2017
In reply to beardy mike:

Clachaig gully just requires a certain type of experience, far removed from the climbing wall environment, and the right attitude.

It can be a character building climb.

It's best done when raining. You don't notice.
Violinist - on 12 Oct 2017
In reply to Eric9Points:

Aye. Looks like a good sort of epic. Much like the Chasm, which is incidentally on my wishlist. I'm just having a hard time finding a willing partner (and/or the weather atm)
C Witter on 12 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

Wow...

I reckon some people should try climbing 70% of the time at Warton (near Silverdale) for two years, due to lack of money, time, partners and transportation. After that, to be honest, any time I get a sniff of the Lakes or a faint promise of a day on grit, even if it's raining, I'm over the moon.

On Gillercombe: the climbing is a mixture of easy and awkward, rather than compelling, but it's a lovely place to be.

Meanwhile, The Long Climb - I've not done it either, but it's pretty obviously not going to be your average VS - it's a historic tour de force, and a committing mountaineering experience that requires a lot of nous with regard to route find, navigating patches of damp and melting snow and moving fast enough to get to the top and back before the day is done. It's definitely up there on my list - though maybe I'll save it for when I'm climbing E1 confidently.

radddogg - on 12 Oct 2017
In reply to C Witter:
Any crag with a memorial cross is one to be skeptical of, let alone two crosses!
Post edited at 13:14
beardy mike - on 12 Oct 2017
In reply to Eric9Points:

It WAS raining. And I'm sure the upper section is gloriously clean but the old bottom bit is a bit like they got the entire contents of a jungle and threw them down the gully!

As I said, marvelous!
Simon Caldwell - on 12 Oct 2017
In reply to beardy mike:

Most of the negative reports of Clachaig Gully seem to be from those who've done it in poor conditions as an off-day option. We did it on a warm dry day as an escape-the-wind option, and it was superb
Doug on 12 Oct 2017
In reply to C Witter:
> Meanwhile, The Long Climb - I've not done it either, but it's pretty obviously not going to be your average VS -

Fairly sure it was 'only' severe when I climbed it (or at least according to the guide book). Probably ought to be 'Difficile' (Vallot grading)

ps - I thought the Clachaig was quite pleasant, but that was on a hot day when the shade was welcome
Post edited at 14:59
peppermill - on 12 Oct 2017
In reply to Violinist:

Fluted Columns (HVD 3c) at Almscliff

Then again maybe it's all the top-rop and trainers traffic that's just ruined it.
peppermill - on 12 Oct 2017
In reply to C Witter:

> Wow...

> I reckon some people should try climbing 70% of the time at Warton (near Silverdale) for two years, due to lack of money, time, partners and transportation. After that, to be honest, any time I get a sniff of the Lakes or a faint promise of a day on grit, even if it's raining, I'm over the moon.

Haha! I've been there once, don't remember which quarry but it was massive and looked awesome from a dsitance. The overriding memory of the day is the constant tinkle-pitter-patter of small falling rocks echoing around the walls. We walked over to a solid-ish looking wall, i put my hands out to feel the starting holds of the route and they just broke off.
C Witter on 13 Oct 2017
In reply to peppermill:

Sounds like Warton Main Quarry you're talking of! Despite many trips to the smaller Warton crags (Pinnacle and Upper), I've always been warned off the Main Quarry and still haven't climbed on it. As Radddogg says, there are crosses underneath the face, which also put me off! One day when I'm feeling unusually brave...

In reply to Doug:

Yes, maybe it was a 'severe' back in the day. But, there aren't many 420m long VS (or severe) routes in the UK; nor many VS (or severe) routes in the UK where you might encounter snow in June; that's all I'm saying. I'd wait to be more confident because two friends who regularly climb E2-E4 and have done long routes in the Dolomites, including Don Quixote, found it quite challenging and ended up having to traverse off the route onto the North-East Buttress. As I've not climbed it, though, I can only go by others words. The UKC Logbook certainly tells a story!

Doug on 13 Oct 2017
In reply to C Witter:

My memories are more of route finding rather than technical difficulty but we were both leading E1/E2 at the time so had a grade or two in reserve
DannyC - on 09:13 Thu
In reply to Violinist:

What happened on Scharnhorst? I thought it was a cracker.

However, we did have a bit of a mare ourselves, involving a 1.5km walk descent through a friendly local's back garden, a housing estate, through the village, then back through the brambles inside the quarry, all for a 15 metre route. Next time, I'd take some long ab tat for the fence...

(Descent off The Boat was also quite invigorating, for different reasons)

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