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This is a very interesting piece from the Guardian where some of the Silicon Valley technologists involved discuss the disturbingly addictive qualities of the software they helped create, and now in some cases avoid:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/oct/05/smartphone-addiction-sil...
Probably of particular interest to those of us who 'Dislike' the UKC 'Like' button.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/oct/05/smartphone-addiction-sil...
Probably of particular interest to those of us who 'Dislike' the UKC 'Like' button.
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In reply to Bob Kemp:
Interesting, far from being an early adopter I have resisted buying a smartphone and have finally decided I don't want one at all. When I observe others using them I cannot see any aspect of them that will improve my life.
Interesting, far from being an early adopter I have resisted buying a smartphone and have finally decided I don't want one at all. When I observe others using them I cannot see any aspect of them that will improve my life.
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In reply to pasbury:
Smart Phones are actually powerful computers that fit in your pocket and a small aspect of them is to make phone calls.
Earlier this year I had to send an important email to work and I was short on time to reply.
I used my phone to research the subject before composing and sending the email.
Day to day, I mostly use my phone to listen to music and pay for all sorts of stuff with contactless payment.
I even use my phone to illuminate rooms at night while working a night shift.
I hardly ever use my phone to make calls.
Useful bits of kit.
> I cannot see any aspect of them that will improve my life.
Smart Phones are actually powerful computers that fit in your pocket and a small aspect of them is to make phone calls.
Earlier this year I had to send an important email to work and I was short on time to reply.
I used my phone to research the subject before composing and sending the email.
Day to day, I mostly use my phone to listen to music and pay for all sorts of stuff with contactless payment.
I even use my phone to illuminate rooms at night while working a night shift.
I hardly ever use my phone to make calls.
Useful bits of kit.
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In reply to pasbury:
If you travel in pursuit of climbing they can make things one hell of a lot easier.
> Interesting, far from being an early adopter I have resisted buying a smartphone and have finally decided I don't want one at all. When I observe others using them I cannot see any aspect of them that will improve my life.
If you travel in pursuit of climbing they can make things one hell of a lot easier.
12
In reply to pasbury:
I can understand that, but it's not just smartphones. Internet addiction was identified in the '90s. How do you manage that? Have we learnt anything from learning to manage the internet without becoming addicted?
> Interesting, far from being an early adopter I have resisted buying a smartphone and have finally decided I don't want one at all. When I observe others using them I cannot see any aspect of them that will improve my life.
I can understand that, but it's not just smartphones. Internet addiction was identified in the '90s. How do you manage that? Have we learnt anything from learning to manage the internet without becoming addicted?
Post edited at 13:05
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In reply to pasbury:
When I was in the Alps, I wanted to come home a day early and, while enjoying an ice cream in Le Tour, I changed my flight (for far less than the cost of another day hanging around in the wet and another night's accommodation).
Also, for getting weather forecasts, topo and comments for Alpine routes when a change of plan is enforced; and booking accommodation. It's all much easier when you a computer with you.
In 2010, when my partner pulled out of an Alps trip at the last minute, I was stranded in Argentiere and after the expense of hiring a guide for a few days, flew home early - using a computer available at a local bar. Nowadays, of course, I would use my phone to find climbing partners on UKC.
The dystopian element, IMHO, comes from the phone becoming your life, rather than a tool to enhance your life.
> Interesting, far from being an early adopter I have resisted buying a smartphone and have finally decided I don't want one at all. When I observe others using them I cannot see any aspect of them that will improve my life.
When I was in the Alps, I wanted to come home a day early and, while enjoying an ice cream in Le Tour, I changed my flight (for far less than the cost of another day hanging around in the wet and another night's accommodation).
Also, for getting weather forecasts, topo and comments for Alpine routes when a change of plan is enforced; and booking accommodation. It's all much easier when you a computer with you.
In 2010, when my partner pulled out of an Alps trip at the last minute, I was stranded in Argentiere and after the expense of hiring a guide for a few days, flew home early - using a computer available at a local bar. Nowadays, of course, I would use my phone to find climbing partners on UKC.
The dystopian element, IMHO, comes from the phone becoming your life, rather than a tool to enhance your life.
Post edited at 13:10
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In reply to The Lemming:
Yes, as ever there's a trade-off. I use my phone extensively for many of the kinds of things you mention, plus weather forecasts, satnav, maps, photography... it's an incredibly useful pocket toolkit. Is it worth the risk? For me, yes, although I am still learning how to manage the downside aspects.
> Smart Phones are actually powerful computers that fit in your pocket and a small aspect of them is to make phone calls. [...]
> Useful bits of kit.
> Useful bits of kit.
Yes, as ever there's a trade-off. I use my phone extensively for many of the kinds of things you mention, plus weather forecasts, satnav, maps, photography... it's an incredibly useful pocket toolkit. Is it worth the risk? For me, yes, although I am still learning how to manage the downside aspects.
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In reply to Bob Kemp:
I'm probably a bit addicted.
For some balance, however, I run a sizeable company. From my phone. I have three offices and two laptops as well but I reckon 80% gets done on the smartphone in alternative locations.
Email, banking, research, currency hedging, spreadsheets, accounting, you name it. And from anywhere in the world, including a belay.
Frankly it's the most liberating invention since the motor car. Your life is presumably very different to mine but my work/life balance would not be possible without the smartphone. I'd have to go to the office!!
> I can understand that, but it's not just smartphones. Internet addiction was identified in the '90s. How do you manage that? Have we learnt anything from learning to manage the internet without becoming addicted?
I'm probably a bit addicted.
For some balance, however, I run a sizeable company. From my phone. I have three offices and two laptops as well but I reckon 80% gets done on the smartphone in alternative locations.
Email, banking, research, currency hedging, spreadsheets, accounting, you name it. And from anywhere in the world, including a belay.
Frankly it's the most liberating invention since the motor car. Your life is presumably very different to mine but my work/life balance would not be possible without the smartphone. I'd have to go to the office!!
Post edited at 13:21
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In reply to Bob Kemp:
Quite, I'm not a total luddite and have my own internet habits which probably take up too much time (not being on here of course!) I indulge them on a tablet or laptop at home or work.
I don't want or need that when I'm out of the house.
Quite, I'm not a total luddite and have my own internet habits which probably take up too much time (not being on here of course!) I indulge them on a tablet or laptop at home or work.
I don't want or need that when I'm out of the house.
Post edited at 13:59
2
In reply to The Lemming:
I have those at work and home - it's enough.
This is one of my prime reasons NOT to have one. I separate my work from the rest very strictly. Colleagues know that when I leave that's the end of contact with me until the next day. And funnily enough it all seems to work in my absence.
I have a thin plastic card to do that with.
a 500 quid torch!!
That's all I use my ancient Nokia for - and the odd text - extremely useful thing!
> Smart Phones are actually powerful computers that fit in your pocket and a small aspect of them is to make phone calls.
I have those at work and home - it's enough.
> Earlier this year I had to send an important email to work and I was short on time to reply.
This is one of my prime reasons NOT to have one. I separate my work from the rest very strictly. Colleagues know that when I leave that's the end of contact with me until the next day. And funnily enough it all seems to work in my absence.
> I used my phone to research the subject before composing and sending the email.
> Day to day, I mostly use my phone to listen to music and pay for all sorts of stuff with contactless payment.
I have a thin plastic card to do that with.
> I even use my phone to illuminate rooms at night while working a night shift.
a 500 quid torch!!
> I hardly ever use my phone to make calls.
That's all I use my ancient Nokia for - and the odd text - extremely useful thing!
> Useful bits of kit.
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In reply to pasbury:
It's a useful way of separating work from home, I can see that. But I work from home anyway, and need to find other ways of separating out work. I rarely use the phone for paid work.
It's a useful way of separating work from home, I can see that. But I work from home anyway, and need to find other ways of separating out work. I rarely use the phone for paid work.
In reply to Bob Kemp:
I was thinking about the history of claims about technology harm and found this entertaining item that rather supports the notion that there is nothing new under the sun:
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2010/02/dont_touch...
'The compelling excitement of the loudspeaker'... phew!
I was thinking about the history of claims about technology harm and found this entertaining item that rather supports the notion that there is nothing new under the sun:
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2010/02/dont_touch...
'The compelling excitement of the loudspeaker'... phew!
Post edited at 14:24
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In reply to pasbury:
I was at work and not at home on a day off, when I had to respond to urgent work stuff. The problem is that my office is a work's van with no internet access or computer on which to draft a document. It can be weeks or even months before I get time at work to log on to a desktop computer.
My work life balance is very healthy. When I'm not at work I don't even give it a moment's thought.
> I have those at work and home - it's enough.
> This is one of my prime reasons NOT to have one. I separate my work from the rest very strictly.
I was at work and not at home on a day off, when I had to respond to urgent work stuff. The problem is that my office is a work's van with no internet access or computer on which to draft a document. It can be weeks or even months before I get time at work to log on to a desktop computer.
My work life balance is very healthy. When I'm not at work I don't even give it a moment's thought.
In reply to pasbury:
There are times, including while at work, that I do NOT carry money or a wallet which happens to contain my contactless pieces of plastic. However most of the time I do have my phone with me andf it only takes a second or so to place the phone beside the payment machine.
I find it very convenient to just pay by phone. And unless you chop my fingers off, you can not steal my phone to pay for stuff.
Some times at work I may forget to bring my torch or it may be in my coat which is in the van. Some times I may be working in the day but have to go into a dark environment such as a sex dungeon or pub cellar and as its daytime I don't think to being my torch. Guess what I have with me most of the time which has a very bright light?
Each to their own.
> I have a thin plastic card to do that with.
There are times, including while at work, that I do NOT carry money or a wallet which happens to contain my contactless pieces of plastic. However most of the time I do have my phone with me andf it only takes a second or so to place the phone beside the payment machine.
I find it very convenient to just pay by phone. And unless you chop my fingers off, you can not steal my phone to pay for stuff.
> a 500 quid torch!!
Some times at work I may forget to bring my torch or it may be in my coat which is in the van. Some times I may be working in the day but have to go into a dark environment such as a sex dungeon or pub cellar and as its daytime I don't think to being my torch. Guess what I have with me most of the time which has a very bright light?
> That's all I use my ancient Nokia for - and the odd text - extremely useful thing!
Each to their own.
1
In reply to pasbury:
Do Petzl, i wonder, intend ever to market a flashy conversion kit to make an iphone into a headtorch?
Do Petzl, i wonder, intend ever to market a flashy conversion kit to make an iphone into a headtorch?
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In reply to Bob Kemp:
I find it interesting the people who seem to be addicted to their phones, there are a few of my friends who I wouldn't expect to be phone "checkers" who will during a night out will be checking their phone quite regularly.
I hardly ever check my phone when I'm on a night out.
I find it interesting the people who seem to be addicted to their phones, there are a few of my friends who I wouldn't expect to be phone "checkers" who will during a night out will be checking their phone quite regularly.
I hardly ever check my phone when I'm on a night out.
3
In reply to krikoman:
They're on a dating app, hoping for a hookup.
Or drug addicts, hoping for a hookup.
They're on a dating app, hoping for a hookup.
Or drug addicts, hoping for a hookup.
Post edited at 17:13
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In reply to joshtee25:
They're all past all of that type of business, but it's interesting how some of them seem to HAVE to check their phone with some regularity.
My niece last about 10 minutes between checking. Madness!!
> They're on a dating app, hoping for a hookup.
> Or drug addicts, hoping for a hookup.
>
They're all past all of that type of business, but it's interesting how some of them seem to HAVE to check their phone with some regularity.
My niece last about 10 minutes between checking. Madness!!
1
In reply to Bob Kemp:
Help! I'm addicted to reading; I can't live my life without reading words all the time. Brilliant article (thanks) that links to many gems; includes worrying that too much study is bad for you and this (from only 12 years ago) about the pernicious nature of email (which is more harmful than dope smoking, apparently!):
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/04/22/text.iq/
> I was thinking about the history of claims about technology harm and found this entertaining item that rather supports the notion that there is nothing new under the sun:
> 'The compelling excitement of the loudspeaker'... phew!
Help! I'm addicted to reading; I can't live my life without reading words all the time. Brilliant article (thanks) that links to many gems; includes worrying that too much study is bad for you and this (from only 12 years ago) about the pernicious nature of email (which is more harmful than dope smoking, apparently!):
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/04/22/text.iq/
1
In reply to Bob Kemp:
I use my phone just as I use any other tool, as and when appropriate.
Funnily enough, just this morning at the gym, I was waiting to use a machine which had a young lass sat on it staring into her phone, and twiddling her thumbs on it. I had to ask her to move on, but then she insisted on "doing my last set".
They are becoming a nuisance in social settings.
These threads always make me think of this quote though;
"A respected Swiss scientist, Conrad Gessner, might have been the first to raise the alarm about the effects of information overload. In a landmark book, he described how the modern world overwhelmed people with data and that this overabundance was both "confusing and harmful" to the mind.
The media now echo his concerns with reports on the unprecedented risks of living in an "always on" digital environment.
It's worth noting that Gessner, for his part, never once used e-mail and was completely ignorant about computers. That's not because he was a technophobe but because he died in 1565. His warnings referred to the seemingly unmanageable flood of information unleashed by the printing press."
I use my phone just as I use any other tool, as and when appropriate.
Funnily enough, just this morning at the gym, I was waiting to use a machine which had a young lass sat on it staring into her phone, and twiddling her thumbs on it. I had to ask her to move on, but then she insisted on "doing my last set".
They are becoming a nuisance in social settings.
These threads always make me think of this quote though;
"A respected Swiss scientist, Conrad Gessner, might have been the first to raise the alarm about the effects of information overload. In a landmark book, he described how the modern world overwhelmed people with data and that this overabundance was both "confusing and harmful" to the mind.
The media now echo his concerns with reports on the unprecedented risks of living in an "always on" digital environment.
It's worth noting that Gessner, for his part, never once used e-mail and was completely ignorant about computers. That's not because he was a technophobe but because he died in 1565. His warnings referred to the seemingly unmanageable flood of information unleashed by the printing press."
Post edited at 23:05
3
In reply to Big Ger:
There's some more technology scares here - including writing! http://lenwilson.us/11-examples-of-fear-and-suspicion-of-new-technology/
There's some more technology scares here - including writing! http://lenwilson.us/11-examples-of-fear-and-suspicion-of-new-technology/
In reply to pasbury:
The big thing that I find is that I can be a lot more spontaneous with a smartphone than I could without. So, for instance, if my connecting train's cancelled I can find a decent pub near the station to wait for the next one in. (And if the pub's a bit too good then I can check the times of even later trains.) I can find a convenient pub to get a nice lunch at on the way back from a rained-off climbing trip, or an open climbing shop if we get to the crag and realize that someone's forgotten something important. Getting weather updates in the campsite on Sunday morning doesn't hurt, either. And (although I haven't gone there yet) you can download the guidebook for the crag that you weren't expecting to go to until you saw the forecast.
I mean, obviously none of these are insurmountable problems without a smartphone, but there is quite a broad class of things that the phone makes a lot easier and more relaxed.
> Interesting, far from being an early adopter I have resisted buying a smartphone and have finally decided I don't want one at all. When I observe others using them I cannot see any aspect of them that will improve my life.
The big thing that I find is that I can be a lot more spontaneous with a smartphone than I could without. So, for instance, if my connecting train's cancelled I can find a decent pub near the station to wait for the next one in. (And if the pub's a bit too good then I can check the times of even later trains.) I can find a convenient pub to get a nice lunch at on the way back from a rained-off climbing trip, or an open climbing shop if we get to the crag and realize that someone's forgotten something important. Getting weather updates in the campsite on Sunday morning doesn't hurt, either. And (although I haven't gone there yet) you can download the guidebook for the crag that you weren't expecting to go to until you saw the forecast.
I mean, obviously none of these are insurmountable problems without a smartphone, but there is quite a broad class of things that the phone makes a lot easier and more relaxed.
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In reply to Big Ger:
That reads like an urban myth. What was the name of his 'landmark book' ostensibly being quoted from?
> These threads always make me think of this quote though;
> "A respected Swiss scientist, Conrad Gessner, might have been the first to raise the alarm about the effects of information overload. In a landmark book, he described how the modern world overwhelmed people with data and that this overabundance was both "confusing and harmful" to the mind.
That reads like an urban myth. What was the name of his 'landmark book' ostensibly being quoted from?
1
In reply to Rob Parsons:
Do I give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are being ironic about us all scuttling off to Google this for you, or do I give you the answer?
Bibliotheca Universalis
Do I give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are being ironic about us all scuttling off to Google this for you, or do I give you the answer?
Bibliotheca Universalis
1
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Thanks. (And I wasn't being ironic.)
I see from Wikipedia that that is indeed a book produced by Gessner, and that 'his motivation [for producing it] was partly a fear of the loss of precious manuscripts.' That doesn't sound like the action of a man who was afraid of an abundance of information, so I am still sceptical of the quote referenced above. Googling myself, all I can find as a source for that is an orginal article from Slate - which then gets endlessly recycled by others.
Happy to be enlightened further - but it still smells like an urban myth.
> Bibliotheca Universalis
Thanks. (And I wasn't being ironic.)
I see from Wikipedia that that is indeed a book produced by Gessner, and that 'his motivation [for producing it] was partly a fear of the loss of precious manuscripts.' That doesn't sound like the action of a man who was afraid of an abundance of information, so I am still sceptical of the quote referenced above. Googling myself, all I can find as a source for that is an orginal article from Slate - which then gets endlessly recycled by others.
Happy to be enlightened further - but it still smells like an urban myth.
1
In reply to Rob Parsons:
I reckon that when he had 12,000 books to catalogue, he despaired and said "stop making all these bloody books" which translated to the more verbose quote
I reckon that when he had 12,000 books to catalogue, he despaired and said "stop making all these bloody books" which translated to the more verbose quote
In reply to pasbury:
Try everything once, of you don't like it, don't do it again.
£150 for a Moto g5, which is as good as the rest but without the price tag that comes with the name.
My favourites are the instant encyclopedia and how to guide, the five or six different notebooks, the 500 odd books, the sat nav, music and opportunities to catch up, like at the moment on the train to home.
Try everything once, of you don't like it, don't do it again.
> a 500 quid torch!!
£150 for a Moto g5, which is as good as the rest but without the price tag that comes with the name.
My favourites are the instant encyclopedia and how to guide, the five or six different notebooks, the 500 odd books, the sat nav, music and opportunities to catch up, like at the moment on the train to home.
1
In reply to Rob Parsons:
I wondered about that - I couldn't find anything to start with either. But I rummaged a bit more and apparently it's in the preface to the Bibliotheca Universalis. There's a brief quote and citation in this article - Blair, A. (2003). Reading Strategies for Coping with Information Overload ca. 1550-1700. Journal of the History of Ideas, 64(1), 11-28. doi:10.2307/3654293
(Sorry - UKC won't let me post the link - says it's not correct)
> I see from Wikipedia that that is indeed a book produced by Gessner, and that 'his motivation [for producing it] was partly a fear of the loss of precious manuscripts.' That doesn't sound like the action of a man who was afraid of an abundance of information, so I am still sceptical of the quote referenced above. Googling myself, all I can find as a source for that is an orginal article from Slate - which then gets endlessly recycled by others.
I wondered about that - I couldn't find anything to start with either. But I rummaged a bit more and apparently it's in the preface to the Bibliotheca Universalis. There's a brief quote and citation in this article - Blair, A. (2003). Reading Strategies for Coping with Information Overload ca. 1550-1700. Journal of the History of Ideas, 64(1), 11-28. doi:10.2307/3654293
(Sorry - UKC won't let me post the link - says it's not correct)
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