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just a small one, at what point can you say you are a climber is it after your first indoor climb when you can lead 7 or when you are first starting out side after you first trad i have been climbing indoors since march and have had little outdoor i tell poeple i like to climb but when can you call yourself a "rock climber"
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In reply to Cjreid:
If you climb, you're a climber....simples
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/climber?s=t
If you climb, you're a climber....simples
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/climber?s=t
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In reply to Cjreid:
If you have sampled some climbs as a beginner but don't carry on, then you are not a climber. On the other hand if you continue to do it you become a climber.
If you have sampled some climbs as a beginner but don't carry on, then you are not a climber. On the other hand if you continue to do it you become a climber.
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In reply to Cjreid:
There is no generally accepted definition. Many people will call themselves a climber if they get up one of the paths up Snowden. Kids are natural tree climbers. Decorators climb ladders.
On this forum, people tend to apply much narrower criteria which put them in what they think of as an exclusive group.
There is no generally accepted definition. Many people will call themselves a climber if they get up one of the paths up Snowden. Kids are natural tree climbers. Decorators climb ladders.
On this forum, people tend to apply much narrower criteria which put them in what they think of as an exclusive group.
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In reply to Cjreid:
Interstingly your last words are 'rock climber' so I think you should climb outdoors for that.
I suppose when climbing is your main interest/hobby you call yourself that. Ive climbed for ages and still do - some years ago I also did a fair bit of running but I never really considered myself 'a runner' as it was very much a secondary thing (Ive had to stop that now anyway due to damaged ankle). Similarly with cycling - which i still do (mountain biking) but dont really consider myself a cyclist/biker.
Interstingly your last words are 'rock climber' so I think you should climb outdoors for that.
I suppose when climbing is your main interest/hobby you call yourself that. Ive climbed for ages and still do - some years ago I also did a fair bit of running but I never really considered myself 'a runner' as it was very much a secondary thing (Ive had to stop that now anyway due to damaged ankle). Similarly with cycling - which i still do (mountain biking) but dont really consider myself a cyclist/biker.
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In reply to trouserburp:
Like reading guidebooks in the toilet, or practising hand jams in the car steering wheel.
> When it starts to define you
Like reading guidebooks in the toilet, or practising hand jams in the car steering wheel.
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In reply to Cjreid:
If you get lost on Snowdon in your pants then according to the press you are a climber. Fill your boots mate.
If you get lost on Snowdon in your pants then according to the press you are a climber. Fill your boots mate.
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In reply to Cjreid:
When you can say that to other people, and it doesn't feel like an exaggeration or deception at all.
> just a small one, at what point can you say you are a climber
When you can say that to other people, and it doesn't feel like an exaggeration or deception at all.
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In reply to GrahamD:
i like that but dose fockfax count ;D
going to try the handjam on the way home
i like that but dose fockfax count ;D
> Like reading guidebooks in the toilet, or practising hand jams in the car steering wheel.
going to try the handjam on the way home
In reply to Cjreid:
A nice comprehensive list here: https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=7326
A nice comprehensive list here: https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=7326
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In reply to MikeSP:
how many do you need to tick lol that was some funny reading
> A nice comprehensive list here: https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=7326
how many do you need to tick lol that was some funny reading
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In reply to Cjreid:
The answer is contained therein:
"You no longer seek validation as a climber."
> how many do you need to tick lol that was some funny reading
The answer is contained therein:
"You no longer seek validation as a climber."
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In reply to GrahamD:
Whilst others would say anyone calling it Snowden (or even worse 'Mount snowdon') is definitely not a climber!
> Many people will call themselves a climber if they get up one of the paths up Snowden.
Whilst others would say anyone calling it Snowden (or even worse 'Mount snowdon') is definitely not a climber!
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In reply to Cjreid:
When you don't need to ask, when you don't need to explain. When it is what you are and not what you do.
When your elbows no longer straighten, and your fingers always hurt.
When you don't need to ask, when you don't need to explain. When it is what you are and not what you do.
When your elbows no longer straighten, and your fingers always hurt.
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In reply to Ron Rees Davies:
Actually the caller I’m thinking of on the radio did say “climbing mount Snowdon”. Who are we to judge ? Don’t know where Snowden came from!
Actually the caller I’m thinking of on the radio did say “climbing mount Snowdon”. Who are we to judge ? Don’t know where Snowden came from!
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In reply to Ron Rees Davies:
Actually the caller I’m thinking of on the radio did say “climbing mount Snowdon”. Who are we to judge ? Don’t know where Snowden came from!
Actually the caller I’m thinking of on the radio did say “climbing mount Snowdon”. Who are we to judge ? Don’t know where Snowden came from!
In reply to Cjreid:
If you need to ask the question then you aren't really a climber.
The other answer is "Anyone who can climb as well as or better than me. The rest are just punter scum."
If you need to ask the question then you aren't really a climber.
The other answer is "Anyone who can climb as well as or better than me. The rest are just punter scum."
Post edited at 10:08
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In reply to Cjreid:
when you start boring everyone around you with the tales of your "heroism" as a climber. (that blue 5a+ in the gym was reaaaly gnarly, I was soooo pumped but I made the clip, i felt like alex honnold)
when you start boring everyone around you with the tales of your "heroism" as a climber. (that blue 5a+ in the gym was reaaaly gnarly, I was soooo pumped but I made the clip, i felt like alex honnold)
In reply to iknowfear:
If you're calling the wall "the gym", I think that you have a little way to go.
If you're calling the wall "the gym", I think that you have a little way to go.
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In reply to Cjreid:
success on 3 pebble slab, cenotaph corner and centurion would make you an experienced climber. Is that what your talking about.
success on 3 pebble slab, cenotaph corner and centurion would make you an experienced climber. Is that what your talking about.
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In reply to GrahamD:
Neither do I, but he's in Moscow now!
> ...... Don’t know where Snowden came from!
Neither do I, but he's in Moscow now!
In reply to Cjreid:
You call yourself a rock climber when you climb rock, a mountaineer when you climb mountains(using hands,feet, ropes and tools and not just walking) and a gym rat when you climb indoors. The term climber is a bit meaningless because in terms of strict definition tree surgeons and window cleaners are climbers and people who walk up Snowdon can claim to have climbed Snowdon. Historically a climber was someone who was either a rock climber or a mountaineer but indoor walls have confused this somewhat. IMO a "real" climber is someone who either climbs cliffs or practices mountaineering on a regular basis, whenever possible. In that sense I would put climbers who ONLY climb indoors in the same league as window cleaners and tree surgeons i.e. "Pseudo climbers" Real climbers would consider indoor climbing as training. That should get some interesting responses
Al
You call yourself a rock climber when you climb rock, a mountaineer when you climb mountains(using hands,feet, ropes and tools and not just walking) and a gym rat when you climb indoors. The term climber is a bit meaningless because in terms of strict definition tree surgeons and window cleaners are climbers and people who walk up Snowdon can claim to have climbed Snowdon. Historically a climber was someone who was either a rock climber or a mountaineer but indoor walls have confused this somewhat. IMO a "real" climber is someone who either climbs cliffs or practices mountaineering on a regular basis, whenever possible. In that sense I would put climbers who ONLY climb indoors in the same league as window cleaners and tree surgeons i.e. "Pseudo climbers" Real climbers would consider indoor climbing as training. That should get some interesting responses
Al
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In reply to GridNorth:
Yes it seem to have had an interesting result so far some good some bad I would like to climb outdoors and am using the "indoor walls" to get more confidence for outside I was surprised to see so many dislikes for the indoor thing if this is all you have then make the most of it. On the hole I have met so really lovely people indoor and outdoor
Yes it seem to have had an interesting result so far some good some bad I would like to climb outdoors and am using the "indoor walls" to get more confidence for outside I was surprised to see so many dislikes for the indoor thing if this is all you have then make the most of it. On the hole I have met so really lovely people indoor and outdoor
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In reply to Cjreid:
I think knowing youre a climber is like when your fishing, if you ever have fished, you're staring at your float or rod tip. Slight ripple on the surface, tide pulling or current running (dependant on where you are). You keep thinking you have a little bite or tickle. But when a proper bite comes along, you know it as clearly as knowing the sun is in the sky. A little like love too. When you're there, you simply know it.
Its all a journey, where ever you are on the path. Enjoy the climbing!
I think knowing youre a climber is like when your fishing, if you ever have fished, you're staring at your float or rod tip. Slight ripple on the surface, tide pulling or current running (dependant on where you are). You keep thinking you have a little bite or tickle. But when a proper bite comes along, you know it as clearly as knowing the sun is in the sky. A little like love too. When you're there, you simply know it.
Its all a journey, where ever you are on the path. Enjoy the climbing!
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In reply to GridNorth:
Where does scrambling fit into your division between "mountaineering" and "walking"?
> You call yourself a rock climber when you climb rock, a mountaineer when you climb mountains(using hands,feet, ropes and tools and not just walking) and a gym rat when you climb indoors. The term climber is a bit meaningless because in terms of strict definition tree surgeons and window cleaners are climbers and people who walk up Snowdon can claim to have climbed Snowdon. Historically a climber was someone who was either a rock climber or a mountaineer but indoor walls have confused this somewhat. IMO a "real" climber is someone who either climbs cliffs or practices mountaineering on a regular basis, whenever possible. In that sense I would put climbers who ONLY climb indoors in the same league as window cleaners and tree surgeons i.e. "Pseudo climbers" Real climbers would consider indoor climbing as training. That should get some interesting responses
Where does scrambling fit into your division between "mountaineering" and "walking"?
In reply to Trangia:
There is no such thing as "scrambling". What people call "scrambling" is just easy rock climbing. It is a meaningless and divisive distinction to try to make.
> Where does scrambling fit into your division between "mountaineering" and "walking"?
There is no such thing as "scrambling". What people call "scrambling" is just easy rock climbing. It is a meaningless and divisive distinction to try to make.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
I agree with you, but many don't. There are books devoted to "Scrambles". So rightly or wrongly the distinction exists. It is also dangerous because it tempts people who don't normally rock climb into doing it, because they don't associate it with rock climbing, where it can be dangerously exposed - eg Broad Stand.
I agree with you, but many don't. There are books devoted to "Scrambles". So rightly or wrongly the distinction exists. It is also dangerous because it tempts people who don't normally rock climb into doing it, because they don't associate it with rock climbing, where it can be dangerously exposed - eg Broad Stand.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Of course there's scrambling, just like there's mountaineering. Perhaps its range is no more tersely definable when people's concepts of it range from free, unroped movement over diverse beyond-walking terrain (let's say anything/everything from needing your hands to Diff+) to roped climbing of the same stuff with a 'scrambling rack'. But I still see scrambling, enjoyed in the first sense of the unfettered freedom of the hills I love as much as anything in mountaineering, as essentially different from (and conjuring up different images to) soloing of harder rock climbs or even easier solo cragging when it's more typically part of an A-to-B journey for me. To say it's 'just easy rock climbing' completely fails to capture that and saying 'I love easy rock climbing as much as anything in mountaineering' just doesn't convey the same concept. Granted we have blurred boundaries between walking, scrambling and climbing *and* it's potentially dangerous, it's still a useful term and not at all divisive when anyone can enjoy all three.
> There is no such thing as "scrambling". What people call "scrambling" is just easy rock climbing. It is a meaningless and divisive distinction to try to make.
Of course there's scrambling, just like there's mountaineering. Perhaps its range is no more tersely definable when people's concepts of it range from free, unroped movement over diverse beyond-walking terrain (let's say anything/everything from needing your hands to Diff+) to roped climbing of the same stuff with a 'scrambling rack'. But I still see scrambling, enjoyed in the first sense of the unfettered freedom of the hills I love as much as anything in mountaineering, as essentially different from (and conjuring up different images to) soloing of harder rock climbs or even easier solo cragging when it's more typically part of an A-to-B journey for me. To say it's 'just easy rock climbing' completely fails to capture that and saying 'I love easy rock climbing as much as anything in mountaineering' just doesn't convey the same concept. Granted we have blurred boundaries between walking, scrambling and climbing *and* it's potentially dangerous, it's still a useful term and not at all divisive when anyone can enjoy all three.
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In reply to Cjreid:
Not sure, can you call yourself a plumber if you fix your sink once?
> just a small one, at what point can you say you are a climber is it after your first indoor climb when you can lead 7 or when you are first starting out side after you first trad i have been climbing indoors since march and have had little outdoor i tell poeple i like to climb but when can you call yourself a "rock climber"
Not sure, can you call yourself a plumber if you fix your sink once?
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In reply to petestack:
I just don't like the them and us "I'm only a scrambler" or "He's only a scrambler" stuff. We are all climbers.
I just don't like the them and us "I'm only a scrambler" or "He's only a scrambler" stuff. We are all climbers.
In reply to Robert Durran:
I agree. I don't mind the word but to pretend scrambling isnt easier rock climbing seems just plain daft to me. I certainly don't feel any difference in freedom soloing a big multipitch VD to being unroped on a big scramble.
I agree. I don't mind the word but to pretend scrambling isnt easier rock climbing seems just plain daft to me. I certainly don't feel any difference in freedom soloing a big multipitch VD to being unroped on a big scramble.
In reply to Robert Durran:
While I get that, my perspective simply isn't 'them and us' and I'd never describe someone as 'only a scrambler'. I recognise that (especially) unroped scrambling is potentially one of the most dangerous mountaineering activities, requiring technical skills, experience and a cool head. But it's something I particularly enjoy and IMHO still the best and most widely understood term to describe the freedom of that activity. No 'only' about it!
> I just don't like the them and us "I'm only a scrambler" or "He's only a scrambler" stuff. We are all climbers.
While I get that, my perspective simply isn't 'them and us' and I'd never describe someone as 'only a scrambler'. I recognise that (especially) unroped scrambling is potentially one of the most dangerous mountaineering activities, requiring technical skills, experience and a cool head. But it's something I particularly enjoy and IMHO still the best and most widely understood term to describe the freedom of that activity. No 'only' about it!
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In reply to petestack:
Can we agree that we all like the outdoors and it has been mentioned that we don't need to be defined in what we call ourselves I would love nothing more than getting on the rock but in a safe way I love to climb and carnt wait to get better so I can get outdoor and "rock climb"
Can we agree that we all like the outdoors and it has been mentioned that we don't need to be defined in what we call ourselves I would love nothing more than getting on the rock but in a safe way I love to climb and carnt wait to get better so I can get outdoor and "rock climb"
In reply to Cjreid:
There are people who occasionally climb things and there are people who are 'climbers'. I don't think there is a diffintive quantity one has to exceed to earn the status of 'climber' but I think it's about the importance climbing has in your life.
If climbing is your primary sport / hobby the pursuit of which dominates over other activities or social events then you're a climber.
For example I go mountain biking about once every week or two, I'm averagely good at it and find it fun. But I would never say I'm a 'mountain biker' because I don't live and breathe biking, I don't follow biking, I don't write on mounting bike forums, I just ride my bike.
Climbing on the other hand has been the constant in my life for decades, most of my friends are climbers, I climb three times a week, every week and if something comes up I fit it around my climbing, biking is just a side hobby.
Oh and yes for 'rock' climber I do think you need to have at least climbed some rocks.
There are people who occasionally climb things and there are people who are 'climbers'. I don't think there is a diffintive quantity one has to exceed to earn the status of 'climber' but I think it's about the importance climbing has in your life.
If climbing is your primary sport / hobby the pursuit of which dominates over other activities or social events then you're a climber.
For example I go mountain biking about once every week or two, I'm averagely good at it and find it fun. But I would never say I'm a 'mountain biker' because I don't live and breathe biking, I don't follow biking, I don't write on mounting bike forums, I just ride my bike.
Climbing on the other hand has been the constant in my life for decades, most of my friends are climbers, I climb three times a week, every week and if something comes up I fit it around my climbing, biking is just a side hobby.
Oh and yes for 'rock' climber I do think you need to have at least climbed some rocks.
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In reply to Cjreid:
In reply to Cjreid:
*I am going to put myself out on a limb with this one!*
Great question OP.
The first thing that came to mind when mulling over your post was "Cogito ergo sum".
My interpretation points to that the time you are rock climbing, you are being a "rock climber".
A wonderful caveat was pointed out of "can you call yourself a plumber if you fix your sink once?"
Following Descartes mentioned philosophy (imo) indicates that when you have solved a plumbing problem; you have therefore performed the act of a plumber.
To prevent a circle of doubt (boom boom) from occurring with my answer;
I will reason that as you simply think about and also propose the question of the concepts around "rock climber" & "climbing" in a context toward identification, proves without doubt that you are a"rock climber", even if the majority of rock surface you climb is artificial (for now).
GM
In reply to Cjreid:
*I am going to put myself out on a limb with this one!*
Great question OP.
The first thing that came to mind when mulling over your post was "Cogito ergo sum".
My interpretation points to that the time you are rock climbing, you are being a "rock climber".
A wonderful caveat was pointed out of "can you call yourself a plumber if you fix your sink once?"
Following Descartes mentioned philosophy (imo) indicates that when you have solved a plumbing problem; you have therefore performed the act of a plumber.
To prevent a circle of doubt (boom boom) from occurring with my answer;
I will reason that as you simply think about and also propose the question of the concepts around "rock climber" & "climbing" in a context toward identification, proves without doubt that you are a"rock climber", even if the majority of rock surface you climb is artificial (for now).
GM
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In reply to Cjreid:
Christ, it's simple;
If i achieve an increase in elevation under my own power using only my lower limbs then I am 'climbing" but only walking and am not a climber but a walker. If I am Johnny Dawes I can walk and climb at the same time but this is an anomolous situation and will only confuse things.
If I achieve an increase in elevation under my own power and use my hands mainly for balance and a little for power then I am scrambling, but not climbing. According to a climber.
If I achieve an increase in my elevation using my hands primarily for power and a little for balance then I am climbing and would be called a climber. I can call walkers walkers and scramblers scramblers. If it is on rock I can be called a rock climber, If it is a tree then I am climbing I am not a climber, unless I am wearing a harness and using equipment in which case I am an arborist, which is like a climber but not a proper climber despite being what most climbers do to earn money to go climbing. Unless I am climbing the tree, in which case I am having fun, and probably 8yrs old, or pissed. If it is on a ladder then I am not a climber, unless I am a climber, but a climber is not climbing if he is climbing a ladder. A walker climbing a ladder is climbing but is not a climber.
If I am ascending frozen water I am an Ice climber, unless that water is very very thin when I become a mixed climber. If I climb grass I am also a mixed climber unless it isn't frozen in which case what I am on is not 'in'. If it is frozen that is OK and I am a climber again, but only if I climb it with axes and crampons. If I don't use these then I am not a climber but a walker off route.
If I clip bolts and dont use them I am a sport climber, unless I clip them and use them to climb with when I become an aid climber, this also applies to things that are not bolts such as bongs, copperheads and skyhooks, in which case I am probably American. I can tell if I am an American because I rappel instead of abseil and send something rather than climb it, but I am not called a sender, I remain a climber, albeit one with a tendency to overexcitement. If I clip bolts indoors and climb on plastic I don't become a sport climber I just become a climber, not even a plastic climber. Unless I am very new and don't do much, in which case I spend too much time wondering if I can call myself a climber, even though I probably climb more than most climbers.
If I achieve a decrease in my elevation under my own power then I am either; walking, falling or caving. A climber can do all of these, a climber who is walking can be a climber while not actually climbing, they do not rescind climber status as they walk, so long as a rope or helmet is prominently displayed to clearly show they are a climber walking, not a walker walking, but a non climbing walker who climbs briefly does not become a climber even if they climb. If I am falling then I am neither climbing or walking, yet no matter what I was doing prior to falling the media will describe me as a climber, even if I took a train to the top of what I fell from. If I am caving then I am an abomination and probably wearing wellies, the wearing of which cancel out ALL other factors which would otherwise confer 'Climber' status.
'Owt else?
Christ, it's simple;
If i achieve an increase in elevation under my own power using only my lower limbs then I am 'climbing" but only walking and am not a climber but a walker. If I am Johnny Dawes I can walk and climb at the same time but this is an anomolous situation and will only confuse things.
If I achieve an increase in elevation under my own power and use my hands mainly for balance and a little for power then I am scrambling, but not climbing. According to a climber.
If I achieve an increase in my elevation using my hands primarily for power and a little for balance then I am climbing and would be called a climber. I can call walkers walkers and scramblers scramblers. If it is on rock I can be called a rock climber, If it is a tree then I am climbing I am not a climber, unless I am wearing a harness and using equipment in which case I am an arborist, which is like a climber but not a proper climber despite being what most climbers do to earn money to go climbing. Unless I am climbing the tree, in which case I am having fun, and probably 8yrs old, or pissed. If it is on a ladder then I am not a climber, unless I am a climber, but a climber is not climbing if he is climbing a ladder. A walker climbing a ladder is climbing but is not a climber.
If I am ascending frozen water I am an Ice climber, unless that water is very very thin when I become a mixed climber. If I climb grass I am also a mixed climber unless it isn't frozen in which case what I am on is not 'in'. If it is frozen that is OK and I am a climber again, but only if I climb it with axes and crampons. If I don't use these then I am not a climber but a walker off route.
If I clip bolts and dont use them I am a sport climber, unless I clip them and use them to climb with when I become an aid climber, this also applies to things that are not bolts such as bongs, copperheads and skyhooks, in which case I am probably American. I can tell if I am an American because I rappel instead of abseil and send something rather than climb it, but I am not called a sender, I remain a climber, albeit one with a tendency to overexcitement. If I clip bolts indoors and climb on plastic I don't become a sport climber I just become a climber, not even a plastic climber. Unless I am very new and don't do much, in which case I spend too much time wondering if I can call myself a climber, even though I probably climb more than most climbers.
If I achieve a decrease in my elevation under my own power then I am either; walking, falling or caving. A climber can do all of these, a climber who is walking can be a climber while not actually climbing, they do not rescind climber status as they walk, so long as a rope or helmet is prominently displayed to clearly show they are a climber walking, not a walker walking, but a non climbing walker who climbs briefly does not become a climber even if they climb. If I am falling then I am neither climbing or walking, yet no matter what I was doing prior to falling the media will describe me as a climber, even if I took a train to the top of what I fell from. If I am caving then I am an abomination and probably wearing wellies, the wearing of which cancel out ALL other factors which would otherwise confer 'Climber' status.
'Owt else?
Post edited at 19:22
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In reply to DerwentDiluted:
Granted that your whole post was thoughtfully tongue in cheek...
Nice!
But you might just have poor technique there?
And *you* climb ladders using your hands primarily for power?
Granted that your whole post was thoughtfully tongue in cheek...
> If I am Johnny Dawes I can walk and climb at the same time but this is an anomolous situation and will only confuse things.
Nice!
> If I achieve an increase in my elevation using my hands primarily for power and a little for balance then I am climbing and would be called a climber.
But you might just have poor technique there?
> If it is on a ladder then I am not a climber, unless I am a climber, but a climber is not climbing if he is climbing a ladder.
And *you* climb ladders using your hands primarily for power?
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In reply to DerwentDiluted:
Not going to lie I loved that thank you
On a side note Johnny Dawes climbs at my local indoor wall nice guy lol but i see your point with the no hands climbing
Not going to lie I loved that thank you
On a side note Johnny Dawes climbs at my local indoor wall nice guy lol but i see your point with the no hands climbing
In reply to DerwentDiluted:
A perfect, concise and succinct summary if ever there was one. I still reckon reading guidebooks in the bog has got to have something to do with it, though.
A perfect, concise and succinct summary if ever there was one. I still reckon reading guidebooks in the bog has got to have something to do with it, though.
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