/ Repeated climbs

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kwaidy - on 07 Nov 2017
Quick question to u lot ... how often do u lot repeat old climbs ? Iv always tried to climb new crags onsighting where I can. Yet when I
Go to the "popular crags" I always here other climbers saying stuff like iv done that 3 times before, it's something I just can't get my head
Round why u would want to climb heven crack every week is beyond me. There are thousands of routes to do in the peak.
It was only just the other year when I led g.n.r which was a massive achievement for me. On retrieving my gear another team was starting to climb with us bearly clearing the climb, dumping there gear on mine telling me tales of the first few times they'd climbed it.
I love climbing and most of the climbers I meet. But some are honestly bloody annoying.
If anyone wants me I'll be up kinder with the Christmas grinch.


DerwentDiluted - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

I hardly ever repeat climbs. There's too much to do. That said, I used to solo 20ft crack at Burbage every visit at least once, and I have done Doorpost at Bosi 3 times on 3 holidays with 3 different partners, but they are pretty much exceptions.
Andy Peak 1 - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

Some climbes need to be enjoyed for the sake of climbing them, beyond onsite or repeat, just pure pleasure!
I've lead Fliying buttress direct probably 20 times but still get a kick from it the clasicks of the peak each have there Owen lesson to teach you.
Bulls Crack - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to DerwentDiluted:

I repeat a small selection of routes at venues often visited as warm ups/training but not out of 'choice' to do as the days routes. I prefer to do new things if possible but understand people like revisiting stuff they found good.
Michael Gordon - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

All very well, but it can be hard to find decent new crags, particularly in a popular area. Indeed, most folk just repeat stuff.
Blue Straggler - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

A few reasons, off the top of my head (there will be many more):

Honeypot crag that you've been to many times and climbed everything within your grade, and just out with some friends not looking to break any new ground

Route that you've climbed but felt it was a bit scrappy and would like to repeat smoothly

Route that has many different possible techniques, you laybacked the whole thing strenuously and boldly but now you've learned to jam effectively and want to see if the route feels nicer that way

Taking beginner friends out and keeping it easy and familiar on routes you know you can do competently, so they don't get put off by seeing you surprised or struggling

The route is just NICE (cf watching a favourite film again)

Related to the "scrappy" comment earlier - maybe the first time(s) you had limited gear and now you have more cams and tri-cams and are interested to see if the improved protection options make it feel easier

It's the start of the trad season and you are using routes that you know you should "cruise", to get a feel for how rusty you are.

You've had a break from climbing, and you are using routes that you know you should "cruise", to get a feel for how rusty you are.

etc
MFB - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

Different pleasures

The most raw, tense and rewarding climbing for me is to onsight a route at the top of my grade - where is the next decent runner?- bloody great.
But repeating routes, holds, slots, spikes and cracks, old friends, difficult passages, old enemies, it's a more gentle pastime but good exercise, throw in the full variety of weather and company and it can still be really absorbing.
No bad climbing
thebigfriendlymoose - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

Reading the OP's message felt like unnecessarily hard work.... I had flashbacks to my (ficticious) life at Bletchley Park.

But on the topic of repeating climbs, I think your chosen disclipline of climbing is key. I cannot recall ever repeating a trad route - even with the easiest trad climbs, I have a sense of "I got away with that..... never again". But, with bouldering, I have set programs of V0 to V6 warm-up problems that I always do whenever at my local crags of Almscliff and Caley; it's just a sensible precaution against finger strains. Likewise, whenever I climb at Malham, I usually have two laps on Consenting Adults to get the muscles and fingers moving - hundreds of repeats. To be honest, the only sport crag I do not have a regular warm-up route at is Kilnsey - I despise the Directisima so usually have a fingerboard session before arriving and complete my warm-up with a clip-stick aided dog of my project.
Mick Ward - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

> Round why u would want to climb heven crack every week is beyond me.

Let it remain beyond you.

If I could climb Heaven Crack every week of my life, I gladly would.


> There are thousands of routes to do in the peak.

I know. Have done quite a few of 'em.

Mick

mrphilipoldham - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to Blue Straggler:

Trad season ends?
Monk - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

I lived 10 minutes from Burbage North for 9 years and climbed up to 5 times a week. There's only so many routes you can do on sight before you end up repeating some. Many climbs are well worth repeating, but I do agree that i will usually try something new ahead of repeating something I've done before.
Blue Straggler - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

Not for people who have nothing but climbing in their lives. But for those who have other things in their live, yes there is an "off button".

Wow my reply there looks really rude and mean. Almost as disparaging as yours.. It honestly isn't meant to. I am off to Egypt for some freediving over the winter, and probably won't do any trad leads (apart from repeats of easy stuff) until March, even though my Egypt trip ends in mid-Jan.
petestack - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

Why do anything more than once? Listen to the same piece of music, watch the same film, read the same book, visit the same place?

Because it can be worth doing even though there's other stuff to do too and none of us can do it all!
Martin Hore - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

> Quick question to u lot ... how often do u lot repeat old climbs ? Iv always tried to climb new crags onsighting where I can. Yet when I

> Go to the "popular crags" I always here other climbers saying stuff like iv done that 3 times before, it's something I just can't get my head

> Round why u would want to climb heven crack every week is beyond me. There are thousands of routes to do in the peak.

Lot's of good reasons given above. Let me add a few.

If the last time I did a climb was 20 years ago then I'm unlikely to remember much about it. It's virtually an onsight anyway.

If it's a choice between a two or three star route that I've done before or a poor route (vegetated, loose) that I avoided last time and hasn't improved since, I'll go for the repeat - wouldn't you?

Often the weather, conditions, or partners lead me to a crag that I've been to often rather than one I've never been to. Better to repeat routes in the dry than struggle up new ones in the wet.

I climbed at Wildcat two Saturday's ago when most of the rest of the Peak was clagged in mist and drizzle. Did one route I did last year (partner's lead), one route I did 15 years ago and one I've never done. And it was an excellent day!

Martin
Jon Stewart - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

I climbed in the Peak several times a week for about 12 years or so. In the last couple of years I rarely took a rope on the gritstone, because I got far more pleasure from soloing familiar routes than leading some dirty 0* nonsense that I'd walked past a thousand times because it looked shit.

Why this would seem strange is beyond me.
Alex@home - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

If I have a spare hour on a nice day I often go up to Windgather and climb a load of routes I've done many times. Why? Because it's extremely relaxing. It's a bit like going through a yoga routine you know well. Your mind can switch off and you can just enjoy the moment.
I get just as much pleasure, though very different, from onsighting at my limit.
It's a broad church. Enjoy what you enjoy and don't worry too much about other people
Jon Stewart - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

> Trad season ends?

Why would you freeze your arse off doing trad when there are far more appropriate things to be doing when it's cold?
alan moore - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to Mick Ward:



> If I could climb Heaven Crack every week of my life, I gladly would.

You beat me too it: I have very little interest in repeating routes but this is one notable exception!

Have also noticed that with age and fading memory, old routes can seem quite new!
Though never quite as satisfying as a new guidebook tick....

buxtoncoffeelover - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

You've 337 routes ticked in 8 years, so are probably some way off needing to repeat stuff. I have more time to climb than should be allowed, & tomorrow could see my 300th new 'tick' this year. If you do 1000 routes a year & have been climbing for over 20 years you'll probably have repeated something. Many very good reasons have been listed.
Jon Stewart - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

> Round why u would want to climb heven crack every week is beyond me.

It's rude not to, if you're passing.

> There are thousands of routes to do in the peak.

But no other heaven cracks. A gently overhanging layback crack with perfect jugs and footholds, providing the most delightful flowing climbing with a slightly trickier little move at the top. Why *wouldn't* you climb it every week? Or every day for that matter.

Robert Durran - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:


> Why you would want to climb heaven crack every week is beyond me.

The same reason I would like to drink fine vintage wine every week.
Jon Stewart - on 07 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:
Here's something you should learn to accept about climbing gritstone: until you're climbing well into the E-grades, after you've huffed and puffed, eyes on stalks, up your hardest leader so far for the best part of an hour, and just about hauled your arse over the top draining the final reserves of your strength and will to survive, some wanker will come along and solo it, commenting nonchalantly on what a nice evening it is, clearly not remotely out of breath or even the tiniest bit excited by what for you was the living end.

That's how it is. Get over it.
Post edited at 23:51
mrphilipoldham - on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Big coat, toasty gloves, freshly brewed coffee and a crisp grit classic.. can't beat winter cragging.
mrphilipoldham - on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to Blue Straggler:

"Season" denotes there is a specific time of the year for trad climbing, not an individuals preference for when they do it. It was however tongue in cheek, as I'm well aware some people feel the cold more and prefer to either go indoors, go on holiday, etc.
PaulW - on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

I enjoy sometimes repeating routes in the same way i enjoy listening to the same piece of music again. You know it will be good and pick up on feelings and emotions that you missed first time round.

Repeating a route with a different partner can alter the whole experience too.
Dave Garnett - on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to Michael Gordon:

> All very well, but it can be hard to find decent new crags, particularly in a popular area. Indeed, most folk just repeat stuff.

All sorts of reasons to repeat a favourite route but this isn't one of them. I've climbed in the Peak for 40 years and make a point of going to at least a couple of new crags every year.

I was at a fine sunny gritstone crag I'd never visited before only a couple of weeks ago. Loads of starred routes and a 5 minute walk-in. I have half a dozen still more on my list without even having to glance through a guidebook.
HeMa on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

> There are thousands of routes to do in the peak.

But not everyone lives in the Peak...

Eg. I pretty much have climbed all the stuff I can get up (without a catapult) on the local crags. Sure, I aim to OS or climb new lines, but it simply ins't always possible. So then I just climb something, be it a repeat ascent or not...

Repeating a route you've climbed before might also be a nice way if warming up and gettin' yer head in the proper mode. I've done this on occation, when I happen to visit a crag that I still have some routes thawt I might be able to OS.
GrahamD - on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

To be fir, when you live in Cambridge there is only a limited amount of climbing within easy driving distance and when you've been climbing VS/HVS for 25 years repeats are pretty much inevitable. Not that I mind. I love finding new venues to visit and doing new climbs, but there is also a lot of fun doing the old favourites. Each to their own.
TMM on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

I think Swiss Toni has this covered.

Climbing a route is lot like making love to a beautiful woman.

Sometimes you want to take your time, seduce her, woo her and caress every inch of her delectable womanhood. On other occasions time may be of the essence and a more direct approach may be required. As the mood and the seasons change the experience can be quite different and well worth repeating.
Iain Thow - on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to Alex@home:

Spot on, and ditto (nice having Windgather just up the road isn't it!)
TMM on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to GrahamD:

> To be fir, when you live in Cambridge.

Oakay, I can understand you pining for more climbing when you live in the flat lands. I don't want to be a medlar but do you find your ambitions beeched?

Whatever happens I'll be rooting for you now I've twigged the problem. Best just leaf it out before branching off on tangents and risking barking up the wrong tree.
Offwidth - on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to Dave Garnett:
I also don't get this running out of routes idea. There are well over 10, 000 routes just on my main local rock, gritstone, well over half that number below E1 and in my experience of working through nearly everything below HVS on grit about 95% are worth doing and only about a quarter are highly conditions dependant (even the ones I wouldn't recommend often give vivid experience!). Not many climbers are onsighting tens of routes a day around their limits and usually fewer if headpointing (often wise on the more compact grit extremes unless perfectly clean). In my possible range into the low extremes I've still got thousands to go at and I'm one of the most prolific lower grade climbers I know and was working on checking for grit guidebooks for well over a decade and have been enjoying these climbs for 30 years. I can't think of any climber at any grade who could easily climb everything they were able to just on grit routes (let alone the hundred thousand plus other trad routes across the world) and getting close on grit would normaly be a life's work.

I'm another who will always solo Heaven Crack when in the vicinity, only takes two minutes to climb and get back to the start and it's pure joy.
Post edited at 10:42
GrahamD - on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to TMM:

Subconsciously I obviously see myself as an evergreen climber.
HeMa on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to Offwidth:

> I also don't get this running out of routes idea. There are well over 10, 000 routes just on my main local rock....


You might think differently, if you say live in NL (like I did).

They have a total of ZERO available routes in the whole darn country...
Offwidth - on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to HeMa:

We usually have choice in how to live our lives and most of us in Europe in full-time jobs get reasonable paid leave and weekends off. A truly dedicated climber could live all year in the Netherlands but the reasons would need to be very strong.

As for working away from the climbs you desire, once you realise how climbers like Mick Fower used weekends you know most of us are pathetic.
GrahamD - on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to Offwidth:

> As for working away from the climbs you desire, once you realise how climbers like Mick Fower used weekends you know most of us are pathetic.

Or just make different choices about how we want to spend our time. I'm sure plenty of people view sitting in a car for 12 hours every weekend pretty sad.
Dave Garnett - on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to GrahamD:

> I'm sure plenty of people view sitting in a car for 12 hours every weekend pretty sad.

It depends on what you do with the rest of the time.
HeMa on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to GrahamD:

> Or just make different choices about how we want to spend our time. I'm sure plenty of people view sitting in a car for 12 hours every weekend pretty sad.

Indeed, or if it is even possible.
Fredt on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

A good climb is like a good woman (or man)

Would you just do it once?
Byronius Maximus - on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

On Sunday I climbed at Stanage Popular End, spending much of the day doing low grade classics that I've done before, as well as a few routes I hadn't. I'm getting back into it after not doing much climbing for a few years and had a fun, stress-free day with good mates, topping out on the final (familiar) climb as the sun set on a perfect autumn day. It was great, and reminded me what I'd been missing.
What's not to like?
French Erick - on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

Because I can (repeat/ be annoying)
;)
Sean Kelly - on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to alan moore:

> You beat me too it: I have very little interest in repeating routes but this is one notable exception!

> Have also noticed that with age and fading memory, old routes can seem quite new!

> Though never quite as satisfying as a new guidebook tick....

ditto Vector and the 'Gates'!
DerwentDiluted - on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to Fredt:

> A good climb is like a good woman (or man)

> Would you just do it once?

Well, The Old Dragon (E2 5b) won't get arsey if you fancy a bit of Heaven Crack (VD)
Rock to Fakey - on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:
U 'orrible lot, or u luvly lot?!

I'm keen to repeat most sport routes, often to see that i can still do them, because they are physically demanding in different ways, sometimes strength dependant + other times test different fitness attributes, general aero endurance, anaero / power etc, but also because each time you try you can fnd small ways to think about + improve on yr technique, + take that to new routes.
The annoying thing about indoor climbing wall routes is that sometimes / often they are great climbing + again you can hone yr technique with them by repeating them or use to test + improve fitness, but in a few months they r gone + u can't test to see that u still have what u needed to do them, when they were at yr limit, + the new ones at same grade might actually b loads easier or harder.
Safe to moderately risky trad, like to repeat for all the same reasons, but scary trad, might just want to repeat when i have improved, + its an easier prospect, but wouldn't normally want to, but some people no doubt r up for repeating these too, now they r more confident they can + know the gear, this could also improve your head game technique too?
Post edited at 18:24
Michael Gordon - on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to Rock to Fakey:

Not sure repeating bold routes you've already done would improve your head game - often they're more of a challenge onsight, so the first time you do them (provided you don't totally freak out!) should yield most benefit.
Dave Perry - on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

Many people sleep with their own wife everynight too.

I notice you come from Donny so that'll probably surprise you too.
Rock to Fakey - on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to Michael Gordon:
Don't know, next time u know the risk is still there, but u could have slightly forgot how to do it, or even though u know it, it might still be hard, but u can approach it more calmly, but also could be more scared! . I'm not sure, actually i probably don't wanna repeat those, it's just too much risk, u've done it, keep it, don't lose it!
Post edited at 21:50
wbo - on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy: i tend to repeat routes a fair bit as i like to get out a couple of times a week and have done a big chunk of whats around locally. ITS not complicated

Andy Morley - on 08 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

> Round why u would want to climb heven crack every week is beyond me. There are thousands of routes to do in the peak.

I was initially inspired by your line of argument and used it to try to persuade my wife to let me have a few evenings off with some of the young ladies at the local hostelry. "There's this bloke on UKC" I said. "He's saying - why plough the same furrow time after time when variety is the spice of life - or words to that effect".

I now have a swollen lip, a black eye, a sore ear and two severely damaged testicles. Time alone will tell whether they are beyond repair. I am hereby giving you notice that I intent to sue you for wilful misrepresentation. You have a duty of care that you should exercise when peddling such advice. My solicitors will be in touch.

> If anyone wants me I'll be up kinder with the Christmas grinch.

Please supply a translation.

stp - on 09 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

I don't like repeating stuff, or at least climbs that are relatively difficult for me. I know I'm much more motivated when I'm trying a route the first time so chances are I'll probably find it more difficult second time around. I feel that could take away from my first experience on a route. I also like the feeling of the 'unknown' aspect of trying a route the first time. I think that adds a kind of adventure to climbing - even on an indoor boulder problem. You can never be quite sure you're going to do it until you do it.

However when you've been climbing a long time it's hard not to repeat some routes because you just end up running out. The routes I tend to repeat most are warm up routes and if I'm just doing something for training. Also soloing on gritstone because it's so quick to do.

One of the great things about our indoor 'crags' is that there's always new stuff to go at.
Rog Wilko on 09 Nov 2017
In reply to Rock to Fakey:
> I'm keen to repeat most sport routes, often to see that i can still do them, because they are physically demanding in different ways, sometimes strength dependant + other times test different fitness attributes, general aero endurance, anaero / power etc, but also because each time you try you can fnd small ways to think about + improve on yr technique, + take that to new routes.

> The annoying thing about indoor climbing wall routes is that sometimes / often they are great climbing + again you can hone yr technique with them by repeating them or use to test + improve fitness, but in a few months they r gone + u can't test to see that u still have what u needed to do them, when they were at yr limit, + the new ones at same grade might actually b loads easier or harder.

> Safe to moderately risky trad, like to repeat for all the same reasons, but scary trad, might just want to repeat when i have improved, + its an easier prospect, but wouldn't normally want to, but some people no doubt r up for repeating these too, now they r more confident they can + know the gear, this could also improve your head game technique too?

Must be an old git thing, but my brain point blank refuses to read this post. Gets to halfway through the second lane and a big error message comes up.
Post edited at 09:53
daveycrocket on 09 Nov 2017
In reply to kwaidy:

Well it’s all about ego is’nt it ? Ie: looking down your nose @ other climbers ... 4 whatever reason !
Rog Wilko on 09 Nov 2017
In reply to Rog Wilko:

second line, not lane.
HeMa on 09 Nov 2017
In reply to Rog Wilko:

I didn't bother reading through all of it either.

But then again, I did get his point (1st sentence) of repeating routes for excersice/mileage whatever...

I do that all the time. In fact, it's sort of a benchmark, that I'm still able to get up this darned thing. This however, only applies for "safe" climbing. So safe trad, sport and boulders... no sketchy death on a stick routes, or highballs.
Michael Hood - on 09 Nov 2017
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> But no other heaven cracks. Why *wouldn't* you climb it every week? Or every day for that matter.

Erosion, worries me that repeated ascents will ruin it. As you must know, a piece came off a few years ago, luckily it hasn't altered the experience but further bits might.

Having said that, I do repeat it most times that I'm passing.

The route that I'd have to think seriously about repeating (assuming I ever got back to the required standard) is Crescent Arête. Have you had a good look at the state of it? Where's the grey gritstone gone, it's all orange now and I can't see any way that it's not going to just get worse and worse.
Jon Stewart - on 09 Nov 2017
In reply to Michael Hood:

> Erosion, worries me that repeated ascents will ruin it. As you must know, a piece came off a few years ago, luckily it hasn't altered the experience but further bits might.

Do you think that the best hold on the route was cleaved off by a soloist, or by some punter with a rack of cams and rock bottom climbing ability? And it has altered the experience, slightly.

> The route that I'd have to think seriously about repeating (assuming I ever got back to the required standard) is Crescent Arête. Have you had a good look at the state of it? Where's the grey gritstone gone, it's all orange now and I can't see any way that it's not going to just get worse and worse.

Again, it's someone else's fault, not mine Blame for this one lies with chalk-plastering seige ascents.
Mick Ward - on 09 Nov 2017
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Agree. You're on these routes for seconds, shoes (literally) squeaky-clean, a dab of chalk on Crescent Arete, none obviously on Heaven Crack.

Sure, it's passage - but the lightest touch imaginable.

Mick
Michael Hood - on 10 Nov 2017
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Wasn't blaming you in particular, just that we (climbers as a "community") eventually ruin or will ruin lots of routes.

Only real way to stop that is to stop climbing but since that's not acceptable, I'll just have to accept the inevitable.

(That all sounds a bit depressive - I'm not - just being a grumpy old fart )
Mick Ward - on 10 Nov 2017
In reply to Michael Hood:

Don't worry - grumpy old fart days are allowed! More seriously, it is worrying how worn some crags are getting. I don't get out much; so it's probably much worse than I perceive.

I suspect a lot of easy stuff, particularly on limestone, gets knackered because of ascents with dirty shoes and ascents where there's been lots of flailing and peddling, particularly in grooves.

If the aforesaid ascentionists are beginners, one can't blame them. How are they supposed to know any better? But the 'experts' taking them climbing should know better.

Often I see a, 'You've got to get up it' attitude with people being taken climbing. Well, if it's a single pitch, top-roped ascent, no you don't. Better to sit on the rope, think about what you're doing, get some help - or just leave it until next time. Better to think in terms of skill acquisition, rather than topping out. Again this isn't the fault of beginners, who often see not topping out as failure. But, with flailing and peddling, all you learn to do is... flail and peddle. And the route gets knackered.

I guess I'm asking all of us (me too!) to consider the effects of style on routes.

Mick


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