/ Shauna's doing OK with a rope on .....

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lithos on 11 Nov 2017
qualification round at the lead comp.....

http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/index.php/world-competition#!comp=6843&cat=2

the Sloveians are going quite well
AlanLittle - on 11 Nov 2017
In reply to lithos:

How many go through to the semi in lead? Is it 20 like in bouldering?
lithos on 11 Nov 2017
In reply to AlanLittle:

dunno, or what the points mean !
john arran - on 11 Nov 2017
In reply to AlanLittle:

It used to depend on how many entrants there were overall - maybe that's not the case any more. In any case, based on current results Shauna's almost guaranteed to finish in the top 10 after this qualifier, so no worries about getting through to the semis. Molly ought to be there too as long as the 2nd qualifier goes ok.
lithos on 11 Nov 2017
In reply to john arran:


i just looked - 100 pages of rules ! (mind you i didnt look in the update )

6.5.1 The quota of competitors qualifying for the Semi-Final and Final round shall be 26 and eight (8)
competitors respectively

seems like a lot to me
stp - on 11 Nov 2017
In reply to lithos:

There's a bunch of male boulderers through to the semis too: Jeremy Bonder, Jan Hojer, the Narasaki bros, Jongwon Chon, Kokoro Fuji and Yoshiyuki Ogata.

Seems like the Brits didn't make it though

Interesting stuff. Seems like if you can boulder hard you can climb hard too.
john arran - on 11 Nov 2017
In reply to stp:

Molly looks to have done well on route 2 and leapfrogged Shauna. Molly in 6th, Shauna in 8th. Both will likely drop a place as Anak has yet to do her second route, but no other changes seem possible.

Well done both.
lithos on 11 Nov 2017
In reply to john arran:

good stuff huh, well done ladies
Molly must be well chuffed
john arran - on 11 Nov 2017
In reply to lithos:

I'd say it would be Shauna that's maybe more chuffed. Molly has been making every final she's been in lately, so she'll no doubt be delighted to be on similar form, but for Shauna this is a whole new game and she seems to be playing it pretty well!
lithos on 11 Nov 2017
In reply to john arran:

I'd assumed Shauna was on a nothing to lose type jaunt, trying it out. Yeah both will be
well chuffed

Do people use tactics with the qualifiers and SF doing just enough to qualify but save energy ? doesn't look like it
Ian W - on 11 Nov 2017
In reply to lithos:

In the qualis, there may be an element of tactics; there are a few who will certainly qualify, and may try to conserve energy. However, the one at the moment who could so that is Janja Garnbret, but she topped both routes......
In the semis, there are no tactics. You need to get into the top 8, and there are a lot of climbers who can do very well. The route grade will go up as well, so in the semis, its safe to say everyone brings the A game.
stp - on 11 Nov 2017
In reply to Ian W:

And of course if there's a draw in the final then the countback to the semis will decide the result.
stp - on 11 Nov 2017
In reply to john arran:

Molly now in 7th and Shauna stayed in 8th place. If they keep climbing like that we'll have two women in the final.

No Ashima or other US climbers this time it seems. For the top 3 it looks like business as usual though.
AlanLittle - on 11 Nov 2017
In reply to lithos:
> Do people use tactics with the qualifiers and SF doing just enough to qualify but save energy ?

Jens on 8a spent years trying to convince everybody that Anna Stöhr did this systematically.

Always seemed like complete crap to me. Particularly in bouldering - the leaders go first in qualis, and there are so many strong competitors these days it would be just too risky to "deliberately" be 20th in the morning, then have some unknown local sixteen year old mutant come along and crush in the afternoon and bang! you're out.
Post edited at 17:05
galpinos on 11 Nov 2017
In reply to john arran:

I thought Shauna used to be quite handy at Lead as a youth, so maybe not a totally new game? Molly ticked Tsunami recently so is obviously no slouch at bouldering either. So how are they both at speed.......
HeMa on 11 Nov 2017
In reply to lithos:
First number is clips. Second (After the dot) is hand moves/holds After the clip. IWC at least counts like that.
Post edited at 17:50
Mick Ward - on 11 Nov 2017
In reply to galpinos:

> I thought Shauna used to be quite handy at Lead as a youth, so maybe not a totally new game?

About 10 - 12 years ago, about five nights a week, she'd be at the Awesome Walls in Liverpool, on the steep section, belayed and coached by Mike, her dad.

She transitioned into sport pretty easily and, obviously, from there into bouldering.

Very impressive indeed. Good luck to her. (Although I'm sure she'll put her trust in hard work.)

Mick

john arran - on 11 Nov 2017
In reply to HeMa:
The points in lead WCs are based on position finished in each of the 2 routes
The first number is the height gained - expressed as a hold no. (with a possible '+' if you've moved up from it) given that the holds are marked in sequence of expected use. For each route you then have a finishing position, such as 3 for 3rd, but there could be more than one 3 if there's a tie.
The Points value is a way of combining the two finishing positions of each route into a single value. It's calculated by taking your finishing position on each route, multiplying them together and then taking the square root of the product. The only slightly confusing part is that if, for example, 4 people tie for third, then instead of squaring 3 for each of them, you recognise the fact that each came on average 4.5th (being the midpoint of the 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th places those four climbers together occupied) and so you square 4.5 instead of squaring 3.

Simple!

Edit: Oops, slight correction in the sums.
Post edited at 18:11
Robert Durran - on 11 Nov 2017
In reply to lithos:

I wonder if she's hoping for a short offwidth section for her new found skills in the final. Should sort out the opposition.
Graeme Alderson on 11 Nov 2017
In reply to lithos:

> I'd assumed Shauna was on a nothing to lose type jaunt, trying it out. Yeah both will be

I suspect Shauna has been training very seriously for this event, this is what she didn't do Ratho, she wanted to see how well she could do with a good few months serious training!
FactorXXX - on 11 Nov 2017
In reply to lithos:

I'd assumed Shauna was on a nothing to lose type jaunt, trying it out.

Isn't she hoping to represent GB in the Olympics and therefore will probably be taking part in a lot more lead comps as part of her training?
lithos on 11 Nov 2017
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

looks like they are both into final
whoop way to go
Graeme Alderson on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to lithos:

Last time we had 2 Brits in a Lead Final was Birmingham 94, with Fliss Butler and Naomi Guy.
lithos on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to FactorXXX:

as i understand it yes, not that i have any knowledge, but i thought this was basically a have a go
rather than expect to win on first try. Sort of get used to competing in a lead comp and sort
out how it all works when is not critical. As pointed out earlier she has been training solidly for it
to see how well she'd do (pretty bloody well i'd say) but it's post boulder season and not her main focus of
the year, as opposed to Janja or Molly for example.

i am well pleased for them both, super impressive
winhill - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to lithos:

> as i understand it yes, not that i have any knowledge, but i thought this was basically a have a go

> rather than expect to win on first try. Sort of get used to competing in a lead comp and sort

> out how it all works when is not critical.

I think there's a balance between leaving it too long and looking like you're putting it off but also going large early and putting the willies up the opposition, I think she'll have scared a few people by getting straight into the final.

Has there been some sort of stewards enquiry over night though?

One of the Slovenes has moved up to 8th and pushed Akiyo down a place and out of the final. Unless I missed it yesterday?

Graeme Alderson on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to winhill:

I checked the replay and Vita's climb isn't there - the stream went down for a bit yesterday - so can't check. But I have asked Gaz to find out what happened and will report back.
stp - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

What happened to Charlie Boscoe? No complaints. Gaz Parry is a good commetator. Just wondering.
Chris the Tall - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Is there a live feed anywhere?
Graeme Alderson on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Chris the Tall:

http://www.ifsc-climbing.org/ or www.olympicchannel.com
Graeme Alderson on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to stp:

Charlie either has just become a dad or is about to become one.
Chris the Tall - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Was just about to post to say I’d found it !

Never seen a lead comp before, so expect some basic questions....

Have the women climbed yet ?

Is it best of two rounds ?
Graeme Alderson on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Chris the Tall:

No the women will climb after the men - organisers obviously expecting Janja to win so they have a good finale.

No it is just one climb in the final. Also one route in the semi final. Two routes in the qualifiers with the relative rankings on each route multiplied t get a ranking.
Chris the Tall - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Who’s the co-commenter ?

Is it onsight ?

Do they have any beta?

Do they know how far the previous climbers have got ?
Ian W - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Stasa Gejo (spelling - one of the female competitors)

Its onsight - they get 6 mins observation immediately prior to the climb.

No beta. purely onsight

No, held in isolation until its their turn
stp - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to lithos:

Could Molly get podium?
Chris the Tall - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Ian W:

Do they get to choose the music ?
Ian W - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Chris the Tall:

~No, but that would be good to see! Well, hear.
Ian W - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to stp:
She could, but its not looking good given the only two left are Anak and Janja..............

edit - Anaks off!! Molly has podiumed
Post edited at 17:26
Chris the Tall - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to stp:

Yep!
stp - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Ian W:

That was a wicked final.

So when was the last time a Brit made podium in lead?
john arran - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Ian W:

You used to be able to supply your own music. Maybe you still can?
Graeme Alderson on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Ian W:

No it wouldn't, we used to do it at BICC's (as they were called in my day) and Fliss used to pick Enya for every route at every comp. We soon stopped that. Plus I shudder to think what Mr Kruder would ask to be played!
Graeme Alderson on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to stp:

I think that is the 1st ever female British podium in lead.

Last one for men was probably Mr Vickers, possibly in Moscow in 1995. He won the European Championships later than that and the X Games but I think that was our last World Cup podium in Lead.
AlanLittle - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Speaking of which, well done Jakob 'n' all, but considering what a ridiculously high proportion of the world's greatest music was written in Austria, they have an astonishingly naff national anthem.
Ian W - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

thats an age thing Graeme. The youth of today have very different tastes........it would be interesting though.....
FWIW, the last music I bought was by a band called Rancid.
I dont think competitors choice would be bad - at least it might improve on the crap we had at this years BLCCs on the saturday. On the sunday it improved greatly thanks to the requests of the German and spanish para teams who demanded something with guitars. To his credit, the DJ obliged!
And with the benefit of youtube, you can find all sorts of singers etc playing "out of position". Rick astley playing ACDC and the Foo Fighters, and indeed playing with the foo fighters. Im sure Fliss's request for Enya could be met with something louder than expected........
keith-ratcliffe on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Graeme Alderson:
I was there! It was the first comp climbing I had ever seen and I was enthralled - seem to remember Jerry Moffat did the commentating and wittered on about broccoli for a diet!
paul__in_sheffield - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

> No it wouldn't, we used to do it at BICC's (as they were called in my day) and Fliss used to pick Enya for every route at every comp. We soon stopped that. Plus I shudder to think what Mr Kruder would ask to be played!

I’m hoping Megos would choose Rammstein and The Scorpions!
keith-ratcliffe on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Graeme Alderson:
I quite like the idea that climbers have their own walk on music - like those other great sports of Darts & Boxing.
stp - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

> Fliss used to pick Enya for every route at every comp. We soon stopped that.

Brilliant!
Graeme Alderson on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

Walk on music would be fine. At the Boulder World Cup Birmingham 2001 the DJ started a new track every 5 minute rotation. Malc Smith came out Goldfinger.
Graeme Alderson on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to AlanLittle:

Some of it written by one of Jacob's ancestors perhaps?
john arran - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Ian W:

> thats an age thing Graeme. The youth of today have very different tastes...

Ah, but was Fliss ever a Youth? Seems to me like she's always been middle aged, even 20 years ago. Probably seems appropriate right now but in 20 years time she'll still be a spring chicken when we're all old and grey!
Graeme Alderson on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Ian W:
One of the problems is the competitors asking for stuff with 'Parental Advisory Lyrics', you can't really have Zappa's Bobby Brown played at a World Cup to be heard over the webcast. Or worse, Gazza's Fog on the Tyne! And you just know the Earl would have asked for that to wind me up.

Post edited at 19:00
stp - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

> I think that is the 1st ever female British podium in lead.

Top stuff. I've been hoping she would podium since Arco. In the women's the standard seems to rise dramatically though at around the top 3 or 4. But she looks like she's in the same class, but just lacking experience and confidence. Great technique, very strong and a cool head it seems. It helped the lack of Americans in this comp but nevertheless she's been really consistent this year.

> Last one for men was probably Mr Vickers, possibly in Moscow in 1995.

So first time for 22 years! Big congrats to Molly.

stp - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to lithos:

I'm surprised Shauna fared so well in the combined. Presumably this was the only non-bouldering event she's done this year. Still great effort and another medal for the UK.
Ian W - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to stp:

> I'm surprised Shauna fared so well in the combined. Presumably this was the only non-bouldering event she's done this year. Still great effort and another medal for the UK.

Its the first meaningful lead comp she's done in 5 or so years! I think she'll be well pleased that she was so competitive, as indeed she should be.

And Molly will be delighted with the progress she' made this year. For the last 4 or 5 comps she's looked well at home in the finals, and it was only a matter of time until she got a podium. Not sure yet what this does to her overall ranking, but it must be impressive!
Ian W - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

> One of the problems is the competitors asking for stuff with 'Parental Advisory Lyrics', you can't really have Zappa's Bobby Brown played at a World Cup to be heard over the webcast. Or worse, Gazza's Fog on the Tyne! And you just know the Earl would have asked for that to wind me up.

Paartly a fair point - you could substitute a less controversial Zappa song, but even for me, Gazza singing anything would be just too much..........
keith-ratcliffe on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Graeme Alderson:
OK so if the music was 'Willie the Pimp' by Zappa who would be the climber?
paul__in_sheffield - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Ian W:

> Paartly a fair point - you could substitute a less controversial Zappa song, but even for me, Gazza singing anything would be just too much..........

Dyna moe hum?
Illinois enema bandit?
Graeme Alderson on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

We should start a new thread for this
Graeme Alderson on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Ian W:

Molly' is 7th in both the World Cup 2017 Ranking and the World Ranking (the one that includes things like the World Championships).

And with Zeppelin playing in my head, Shauna is straight in there with a new entry at no. 30
Ian W - on 12 Nov 2017
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Looks ike Nick C will have to lean on UK Sport again.........
winhill - on 12 Nov 2017
stp - on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to winhill:

Wow, the beeb are on the case. Who's Nick Hope? He's certainly on the ball regarding the history of UK comp climbing acheivements.
Chris the Tall - on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

> No it wouldn't, we used to do it at BICC's (as they were called in my day) and Fliss used to pick Enya for every route at every comp. We soon stopped that.

I think you should have at least given Fliss a choice...as to which Fall album you played

PS did you pay Gaz commission for every time he plugged the CWIF ?
AlanLittle - on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Here’s something I noticed: Janja wearing a harness with four gear loops. (Other people too presumably, I just happened to notice it on Janja). That must be a good twenty or thirty unnecessary grammes, right?

I understand that one can’t just cut them off, even though they’re not load bearing, because then the harness would be be modified and no longer as certified. Fair enough. But would it not be in somebody’s interest to make an absolutely minimalist microweight comp harness? People like Camp make them for ski mountaineering racing, but perhaps that’s a much bigger market than competition climbing.
JLS on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to stp:
>"What happened to Charlie Boscoe? No complaints. Gaz Parry is a good commetator."

Charlie would never have conflated GB Climbing Team and English Team.

From my home in Glasgow I could sense the rage of Scottish Nationalists rising each time Gaz mis-spoke.
Post edited at 15:03
Chris the Tall - on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to JLS:

Well since both Shauna and Molly now live in Sheffield maybe it should be the Yorkshire climbing team, but obviously a Lancastrian would never acknowledge that !
Graeme Alderson on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to JLS:
Christopher, the MC at all French comps, used to introduce Malc Smith as English. It took about 3 times to get into into his head that English and British are not the same. Malc probably never noticed!

And at the World Youths in Edinburgh 2004 I had to explain in the Technical meeting to all of the foreign teams that we were in Scotland so be careful. The default should be British unless you knew that a person was English (eg me). I pointed out that whilst some Scots wouldn't jump to offense others might. Lots of the volunteers thanked me afterwards ;-)
Post edited at 15:21
MischaHY - on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to AlanLittle:

Probably easier to simply got for a cheeky wee before pulling on ;)
lithos on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to MischaHY:

i've never understood this argument, why not do both ?
Tyler - on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to JLS:

> Charlie would never have conflated GB Climbing Team and English Team.

On the other hand, at least Gaz knows what a f*cking drop knee is so swings and roundabouts, eh?

Si dH - on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to AlanLittle:

> Here’s something I noticed: Janja wearing a harness with four gear loops. (Other people too presumably, I just happened to notice it on Janja). That must be a good twenty or thirty unnecessary grammes, right?

> I understand that one can’t just cut them off, even though they’re not load bearing, because then the harness would be be modified and no longer as certified. Fair enough. But would it not be in somebody’s interest to make an absolutely minimalist microweight comp harness? People like Camp make them for ski mountaineering racing, but perhaps that’s a much bigger market than competition climbing.

Be careful. Before you know it, someone will be out there in a comp harness with no gear loops that says Red Bull on it, and then you'll be lynched by the ukc masses.
JLS on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to Tyler:

>"On the other hand, at least Gaz knows what a f*cking drop knee is so swings and roundabouts, eh?"

Do I have to embarrass myself now and ask what a "f*cking drop knee" is?
I'm so naive, I don't know what half these gay sex terms mean...
Misha - on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

> Walk on music would be fine. At the Boulder World Cup Birmingham 2001

Out of interest, do you recall where that was - a specially made structure? Don’t think we had any bouldering walls back then!
Michael Gordon - on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

> OK so if the music was 'Willie the Pimp' by Zappa who would be the climber?

Dunno, but that would be a great one for a comp! I guess in theory the chosen track should be just over 6 minutes so the climber knows how long they've got left?
Ian W - on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to Misha:

NEC, part of the outdoor show.
Graeme Alderson on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to Ian W:

Nah, it was the NIA in central Birmingham, the comps moved to the NEC in 2002.

(Climb '01 was a stupidly big event. The Boulder World Cup, a Lead Masters event, a European Youth Cup Lead event, all of the various big shops (Snow & Rock selling Koflachs for around £30), a big Volunteer Leader Conference, lots of slide shows and lectures. The BMC were strained it could be said!)

Sheesh, don't you know anything ;-)
Ian W - on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Nah. Just that 2002 was coincidentally the first time we went.......
Misha - on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to Graeme Alderson:
Thanks.
Hugh Mongous - on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to Misha:

> Don’t think we had any bouldering walls back then!

Well, there was the Berghaus wall in Newcastle in 2001. Still going strong (I think).

AlanLittle - on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to Si dH:

Or we could keep the gear loops and use them for a handicapping system. Janja has to carry a full El Cap aid rack.
Misha - on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to Hugh Mongous:

I meant in Birmingham.
stp - on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to AlanLittle:

> I understand that one can’t just cut them off, even though they’re not load bearing, because then the harness would be be modified and no longer as certified.

Why on earth would that matter? Unless you're planning to sell it I suppose? But even then I think most climbers would care more about whether the gear loops were actually there far more than any certification.

HeMa on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to stp:

> Why on earth would that matter?

Rules, would be my guess.

AlanLittle - on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to stp:
> Why on earth would that matter?

What an odd question. What on earth would the event's liability insurers say if they allowed people to climb with dodgy diy-modified safety equipment and somebody got hurt?

Anyway ...

"3.2.4 Any technical equipment used in International Climbing Competitions must meet the relevant EN Standard (or comparable International equivalent) ...
Climbing Harness EN12277 (Type C)"

EN12277 (Type C) says nothing about gear loops per se, so somebody could make a conformant harness without any, but I can't begin to imagine that chopping bits off your harness wouldn't void its certification.
Post edited at 21:42
stp - on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to AlanLittle:

I've never really looked that closely at the rule book. I just enjoy watching the climbing. But I would have thought the insurance stuff would have been pretty similar to a normal climbing wall.

> What on earth would the event's liability insurers say if they allowed people to climb with dodgy diy-modified safety equipment and somebody got hurt?

I also can't see how cutting the gear loops off harness could possibly result in someone getting hurt - unless it was done by a complete idiot who hacked right into the waistbelt to get the loops off. Though that doesn't seem very likely.
AlanLittle - on 15 Nov 2017
In reply to stp:

As soon as you start allowing diy harness modifications of any kind, you are now expecting the judge standing at the bottom of the wall to make an instant judgement about which diy harness mods are safe & ok and which aren't. I would have thought it's pretty obvious why nobody would want to even start down that path.

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