/ Harness for Scottish Winter

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metrorat - on 13 Nov 2017
I'm wondering if there is a better harness for Scottish winter than the DMM renegade. I have the older version which is a bit worn now and I'm looking for a replacement. I really like all the gear loops and the option to have a more than one ice clipper per side but the comfort is bad and its quite heavy.

I tried my sitta harness on Sunday but with all my winter clothes on the gear loops were way back in my peripheral vision and the ice clipper attachments are poorly designed. Its a great sport/trad harness but not suitable for winter.

Any recommendations for winter harnesses? Good gear loops and ice clipper attachments, comfortable, not too heavy?

Cheers all.
Tricadam on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to metrorat:

Jonny, I've just bought a new Edelrid Jay 2. Previously had the original Jay and had sewn on my own ice clipper points and added an extra central gear loop at the back (only for carrying belay jacket, no karabiners...) I've transferred that central loop to the new one, which now comes with an ice clipper slot each side. The gear loops protrude nicely from the harness which makes it really good in winter with reduced dexterity (can place and retrieve gear with mitts on!) and for me the medium size has the front loops sitting in the sweet spot between gear-in-lap and cannae reach. Two gear loops each side. Not super light, but probably lighter than the Renegade (which I tried and hated - mostly due to gear-in-lap and less sticky-outy gear loops) and certainly comfy. Worth a try.
wbo - on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to metrorat: i use the same Hirundos in winter as in summer. Luckily it fits over my winter trousers pretty well, and IIts comfortable because it's a good fit.

a Sitta, one size bigger?

Dave Kerr - on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to metrorat:

I've got a DMM Super Couloir and works very well for winter. No padding to absorb moisture, light, packs small, decent racking and can be put on without lifting your feet off the ground. Pretty cheap too. The lack of padding isn't an issue in winter with all the extra layers.
Tricadam on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to metrorat:

One other (fairly unusual) feature in favour of the Jay 2 is that the waist belt is free within the harness so as to allow the harness to be perfectly centred, irrespective of waist size. (One thing in favour of the Renegade 2 too!) Better than including a second buckle to achieve the same result (as is done on, for instance, the Edelrid Duke harness.)
olddirtydoggy - on 13 Nov 2017
In reply to wbo:

I second this motion. The waist adjustments are just long enough over my winter layers. Elasticated leg without the adjustments I found are fine.
Pina - on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to metrorat:

If it's mixed you're doing I'd consider how durable the harness is too. I had a Aquila which barely lasted two seasons of weekend use before it got taken out of service by recommendation from Lyon. (Apparently a 3 year warranty doesn't cover wear from moderate use)
angry pirate - on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to Dave Kerr:

I'd second this. I really rate the super couloir for winter.
Ben Sharp - on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to metrorat:

I got a mammut togir click harness a few years ago, its one of the ones where the waist and leg loops buckle up to make it easier to put on over boots. It's a good comfortable harness and it is really easy to do up, you still have to step into one side of it because of the elastic attaching the leg loops to the back but I use it all round and it's a nice feature to have. The buckles seem pretty secure when they're done up but one side is metal and one side is plastic, I would have preferred it if they were both plastic coated metal as you would be screwed if it broke.
metrorat - on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to Pina:
My Sitta was pretty scuffed up after a couple of pitches of Cairngorm thrutching on Sunday. I'm not sure it would stand up to much more. I was looking at the arcteryx 365 which seems good on paper and has 4 ice clipper attachments which I want and they seem to be in sensible places. I also like the look of the super couloir.

Super Couloir users, how do ice clippers attach and how many can you get on there? I use the petzl caritool ones and like to go for two on one side.
veteye on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to metrorat:

I like the alpine bod as you don't have to step into it, so it is much less fuss putting it on over overtrousers etc.
I tend to use it all year round. It doesn't have as much padding,but you are going to have that in the form of layers of clothes under it.
GarethSL on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to metrorat:

I got a Stitta as a replacement for my AR 395a after it got too big, worst decision ever. As a winter harness its massively flawed and far too lightweight for dirty climbing.

The rear gear loops are hard to clip to if wearing gloves, the clipper attachments are right over the stiffer front gear loops meaning you lose the advantage of the gear divider for mixed climbing, all of the weight is pushed backwards so it feels like the harness is slipping down.

Very nice trad and alpine harness tho!
metrorat - on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to GarethSL:

So what do you use for winter? I have a sitta and had the same experience. Mad rib-cramp twisting round to clip stuff to the rear loops. Pure shite for winter but as you say great in the alpine.
GarethSL on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to metrorat:

At present the sitta as it's the only harness I have that fits. Will be getting a 395 again after payday :^)
JWTM - on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to metrorat:

I'm liking the look of the new Blue Ice Choucas (v3) for winter/expedition but haven't tried it out - could be an option? I don't know if the new version has altered the buckle from v2: https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/press.php?id=7605
metrorat - on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to JWTM:

Thats incredibly light but i need more gear loops than that. Especially for mixed whenI often have a rack of cams. Really like the look of the big solid plastic gear loops on the Arcteryx harnesses.
planetmarshall on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to metrorat:

> Really like the look of the big solid plastic gear loops on the Arcteryx harnesses.

Unfortunately they aren't that solid. They can become detached from the interior fabric, which if you don't notice can have you racking your gear onto a bit of plastic which isn't attached to anything. A rather serious design flaw imho.
Tricadam on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to planetmarshall:

> Unfortunately they aren't that solid. They can become detached from the interior fabric, which if you don't notice can have you racking your gear onto a bit of plastic which isn't attached to anything. A rather serious design flaw imho.

Yeah, that was my impression too looking at the Arcteryx ones. That was a while ago though, so I can't vouch for more recent iterations.
Big Lee - on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to Tricadam:

I've got the Arcteryx harness. I love it. Packs down small, really comfortable, and nice big gear loops that I've never had any problems with. Four points to attach ice clippers. I had used BD winter harnesses previously, which I also liked. The gear loops weren't as generous but they were good in every other respect. I found all the Edelrid harnesses fitted me poorly as the front depth was too short versus the waste size. They don't seem well suited for tall slim folk. The women's fit actually better suited.

angry pirate - on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to metrorat:

There are three (iirc) hyperlon slots on either side just above/behind the first gear loop. I have one petzl clipper on each side but you could easily double up either side.
metrorat - on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to angry pirate:

Cool thanks, sounds very much like a stripped down version of the renegade.
angry pirate - on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to metrorat:

Funnily enough, I have a Renegade for trad use and the layout is very similar though I do prefer the gear loop layout on the Super Couloir tbh.
planetmarshall on 14 Nov 2017
In reply to Tricadam:

> Yeah, that was my impression too looking at the Arcteryx ones. That was a while ago though, so I can't vouch for more recent iterations.

This image is from my AR395a, purchased this year. This happened several pitches up a 9 pitch climb, and could easily have lost me several pieces of protection. I'm going to send it back to the manufacturer, but to be honest I think it's an intrinsic design flaw.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wa4ck62da30y14p/IMG_20171114_222854.jpg?dl=0
metrorat - on 15 Nov 2017
In reply to planetmarshall:

Zoiks, after a bit of an internal struggle I ordered the Arcteryx 365. Mainly because the gear loops and ice clippers are where I want them vs the super couloir. Hadn't seen your post about the gear loops though. I'll keep a careful eye on them.
Tricadam on 15 Nov 2017
In reply to metrorat:

> Hadn't seen your post about the gear loops though. I'll keep a careful eye on them.

No more thrutchy Cairngorm granite chimney action for you, Jonny!
metrorat - on 16 Nov 2017
In reply to Tricadam:

Haha aye right. I'll take my chances, Adam
metrorat - on 16 Nov 2017
In reply to planetmarshall:

By the way, was the fabric loop under the plastic bit of the gear loop sheared or ripped from the harness? Just wondering because the blurb I read before purchasing the 365 listed the plastic bits on the gear loops as removable. It looks from your pic as if the plastic has come away but the gear loop fabric underneath is intact. Is that correct?
planetmarshall on 16 Nov 2017
In reply to metrorat:

Yes, the problem is when you 'feel' for the plastic loops when placing gear back on your harness. If at that point the plastic has come away, you can end up with gear unsecured to your harness, as in the picture.
Big Lee - on 16 Nov 2017
In reply to Tricadam:

> No more thrutchy Cairngorm granite chimney action for you, Jonny!

Surely there's no need for a dedicated winter harness on such a route though. Granted it's probably not the best harness for thrutchy stuff.

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