UKC

"I hate Apu," the actor Kal Penn says in a new documentary about the penny-pinching, Squishee-slinging, thickly accented convenience store owner on one of the most celebrated TV shows in history. "And because of that, I dislike The Simpsons."

The feelings of South Asian-Americans toward the character and the show he inhabits are the focus of The Problem with Apu, a documentary debuting in the United States on November 19. The brainchild of the actor and stand-up comic Hari Kondabolu, a lifelong lover of The Simpsons, the film wrestles with how a show praised for its incisive humour – over the years, it has explored issues like homophobia and political corruption – could resort to such a charged stereotype. Making matters worse is the fact that the Indian character is voiced by a non-Indian (albeit an Emmy-winning) actor, Hank Azaria.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/do-you-have-a-pr...

Seriously? What about the portrayal of white/yellow Americans as fat, beer swilling, lazy, oafs?

In reply to Big Ger:

Is it the new Godwin's Law to say "snowflake" in a doubly inappropriate manner?

In reply to Blue Straggler:

A few here would like / benefit from that idea...

In reply to Big Ger:

I love APU, saw them performing in Alston in the rain

In reply to Big Ger:

I haven't seen the doc, but I always assumed a fair amount of irony in the portrayal of Apu. The Simpsons has always done a pretty good job at poking fun at lazy stereotyping over the years.

In reply to Big Ger:


Are you outraged?

In reply to Big Ger:
Yet another tedious attempt to manufacture outrage.

Climbed anything recently?

In reply to krikoman:


I'm not American, though I will be outraged on behalf of all white/yellow Welshmen if they get portrayed as fat, beer swilling, lazy, oafs!

Oh, hang about, we do don't we? Where's my doco, support group, facebook page and safe space....

In reply to Andy Johnson:

By who? Me or them?>


Hit the wall last week, just for the usual fat lazy white/yellow Welshman, beer swilling, lazy, oafs, bumbling.

In reply to Andy Johnson:


UKC would be quite dull without any posts...

In reply to bouldery bits:


https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=674182&v=1#x8671960

All will be revealed

In reply to Big Ger:

A classic piece of whataboutism -
"Whataboutism (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument,[1][2][3] which is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.[4][5][6] When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union, the Soviet response would be "What about..." followed by an event in the Western world.[7][8][9]""
- Wikipedia

So now I'm even more convinced you're working for the Russians!

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=674194&v=1#x8672762

In reply to Bob Kemp:





I argue against that. If one form of stereotype within the Simpsons is to be castigated, then all are.

If it's not ok to highlight the lack of opprobrium against Homer as a stereotype, as he is white, ( yellow,) how about Luigi Risotto, Aristotle Amadopolis, Rabbi Hyman Krustofski, Cookie Kwan, or Üter Zörker?

Face it, this is just a sad act, virtue signaller, looking for a USP to sell his wares on.

In reply to Big Ger:

Virtue signaller completes my grid!

Buzz word BINGO!

What's my prize?

In reply to Big Ger:




Don't forget Fat Tony and Groundskeeper Willie

In reply to Big Ger:
That may be the case but it isn’t Penn’s responsibility to do the castigating - he’s talking about his personal experience. It might strengthen his case if he did address the other examples, that’s all.

The tu quoque fallacy you used is a sub-type of the ad hominem fallacy. Another sub-type is ‘poisoning the well’, where some form of adverse information is used to pre-emptively undermine the person arguing. ‘Virtue-signalling’ is a good example -
“An accusation of virtue-signalling is an attempt to dismiss what somebody is saying based only on a perception of the motivation for saying it. It has exactly nothing to do with the content of what they're saying or its veridical value.” (From http://www.hackenslash.co.uk/2017/10/dont-drink-that.html?m=1 )
That page also points out that using the phrase ‘virtue-signalling’ is in itself a form of virtue-signalling .

In reply to Big Ger:

Here, you can read what a bunch of South Asians think about the way they are represented on screen.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-soft-racism-of-apu-f...

Or, you can not read. Up to you.

In reply to seankenny:

It's an interesting topic. Mind Your Language was (and still is!) hugely popular in South Asian countries, so much so that spin offs have been created since it was cancelled in 1989 in India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nigeria etc.

youtube.com/watch?v=vhd1IqNM3M8&

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:



Hmmm, I'm in regular contact with plenty of people from one of those countries you list and no one has ever enthused about this to me, so perhaps not *that* popular.

In any case, it's kind of irrelevant - the documentary maker is American, and he's complaining about South Asian representation in America. I'm not sure what British Asian comics or actors, or indeed British Asians generally, might make of Apu, but I like to think we've moved on a bit since Mind Your Language... No one really likes to be seen as fresh, right?

In reply to seankenny:
Agree it's not a direct comparison to the Apu case, and I'm not surprised your mates haven't enthused about a British sitcom from the 70's Having said that though,it's funny how MYL has become one of those shows we are not allowed to like and have "moved on from". It was extremely clever, and widely regarded as a British "classic" sitcom. Do the accusations of racism wash when it was more popular in the countries of the students in the show than in the UK itself?

"Various international television shows based on the premise of Mind Your Language have followed the original series. Among them are What a Country! (US), Zabaan Sambhalke (India and Pakistan), Second Chance! (Nigeria), Jami'ar Albarkawa (In Hausa language, Nigeria), Raja Kaduwa! (Sri Lanka), Classmates (Kenya) and Kelas Internasional (Indonesia).

http://www.classictelly.com/programme.php?Programme=Mind%20Your%20Language

396 reviews on there from all over the world ... maybe it was very funny and translated well, the reviews on IMDB are similar....seems the minorities don't need direction from us to tell them what's acceptable and fresh? or have they just not caught up with us yet?

In reply to seankenny:

I'm not sure what British Asian comics or actors, or indeed British Asians generally, might make of Apu

I would hope, that they would either laugh and/or shrug their shoulders in much the same way other people in the UK do with humorous stereotypical depictions of various religions, cultures and local customs, etc.

In reply to XXXX:




You win the internet. Please call 0845234565 to claim your prize.

Calls charged at 55p per minute, calls may last up to 4 hours.

In reply to Big Ger:

I'm starting a campaign to have Siadwell declared racist, where's my safe space and compensation....

In reply to ThunderCat:


Indeed, aren't all Simpsons characters a "stereotype" of some sort?

In reply to Big Ger:


Haha, Siadwell. Great character

In reply to ThunderCat:

youtube.com/watch?v=LSjtBkdMM1U&

In reply to Big Ger:



I see that and raise you this

youtube.com/watch?v=zXv9TaS72gc&

In reply to Blue Straggler:

An excellent documentary on a much neglected and maligned people.