/ Cairngorm Webcams

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drmarten on 26 Nov 2017
http://www.winterhighland.com/cams/cairngorm-mountain/

Shortly before 10.30am on Friday 24th November CairnGorm Mountain Ltd staff unlawfully entered the Scottish Ski Club Hut and interfered with the operation of our webcams, weather station and network equipment.

Anyone know what's going on, I've had a feeling that there is some dispute going on prior to this?



mal_meech on 26 Nov 2017
In reply to drmarten:

On their FB page winterhighland aledge that the NR manager threatened this action on Thursday, which suggests some form of dispute. Be interested to know what is going on. Seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face considering the advertising these web cams provide (when they have snow)
rif on 26 Nov 2017
In reply to drmarten:

The main winterhighland (WH) forum has a bit more detail: http://www.winterhighland.info/forum/read.php?2,174047
The people who run WH are downhill skiers and for several years have been critical of how the Cairn Gorm skiing facilities have been run (run down, in WH's view) by CML and the current leaseholders Natural Retreats. Crowdsourcing is now under way for an attempt at a community buyout: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-41899440
The Loch Morlich webcam, which gives the best view of the northern corries so long as the clag isn't down, is still operating.

Doug on 26 Nov 2017
In reply to mal_meech:

Cairngorm's management never cease to amaze in their stupidity & incompetence
jonnie3430 - on 26 Nov 2017
In reply to drmarten:

What were they trying to hide? Work on some of the lifts, or snow conditions?
Steve Perry - on 26 Nov 2017
In reply to drmarten:

Have they disconnected them because they thought people may not turn up to ski if seeing only a small amount of snow, or do they plan on putting their own webcams up? Seems like there's some missing info to this story but entering and disconnecting without permission doesn't sound good form.
jay.mac - on 26 Nov 2017
In reply to drmarten:

Snow cannons operating on Friday. Could this be a reason? Unsure why it would be.
drmarten on 26 Nov 2017
In reply to thread:
Thanks for the replies, I'd forgotten that Winterhighland had a forum as it's normally just the webcams I check. It seems all is not well between the SSC and Cairngorm Mountain Ltd/Natural Retreats although I don't understand the relationship between the latter organisations nor the nature of the problem.

I hope to see the cameras back up soon, I'm not a skier but good luck to the Scottish Ski Club.




Doug on 26 Nov 2017
In reply to drmarten:

http://parkswatchscotland.co.uk is another source of information on whats's going on, and I see they have a post on this issue
http://parkswatchscotland.co.uk/2017/11/26/natural-retreats-remove-winter-highland-webcam/

http://parkswatchscotland.co.uk/2017/11/13/end-natural-retreats/ is another, possibly related, thread
jonnie3430 - on 26 Nov 2017
In reply to drmarten:

So it looks like natural retreats, or whatever they are now called are in hard times, are doing illegal work on Cairngorm and turned the webcam off to prevent the recording of this, as has been done in the past. I'd suggest a fair few photos are taken to try to limit wider ambitions, whatever they are, and mcos probably should get involved. (Unlikely, I know.)

Thing is, there isn't enough profit to be made off the Cairngorm ski resort to make it viable long term. We can have as many council buyouts, community buyouts and shell companies for each, but they're all going to go under, at the expense of our outdoors. When are the council going to pull the plug and start tidying up? That needs written into any new deals.
Doug on 26 Nov 2017
In reply to jonnie3430:

Some 15 years ago I saw some figures showing that more public money had gone into Cairngorm than all the other Scottish ski areas added together. I wonder if that's still the case ?

I can see some justification for limited aid as it brings in a lot of visitors & associated spending but spending at Cairngorm, whether by HIE or other public bodies has always been opaque and the record of successive companies running the ski resort always less than impressive.
drmarten on 26 Nov 2017
In reply to Doug:

Thanks for the parkwatch link Doug, I can see details on Cairngorm Mountain, the Glen Falloch hydro scheme and the Cononish gold mine all areas with developments I'm interested in. Bookmarked for reading later...

mal_meech on 27 Nov 2017
In reply to drmarten:

Statement from Cairngorm mountain now online:

> "We understand the concern that has been expressed about the removal of the Winter Highland webcam from the exterior of the Scottish Ski Club hut at CairnGorm Mountain. We would like to highlight that we had discussions with the Scottish Ski Club before its removal, and sought to consult with Winter Highland also. This particular webcam did not link in with the rest of the live camera feeds at CairnGorm Mountain. We fully recognise that the webcams are consulted frequently by snowsports enthusiasts to help plan their trips to CairnGorm Mountain, as they provide live updates of conditions at the resort. Our aim now will be to replace the webcam within the next week with a new one that feeds in to the rest of our systems, so that we can provide a live, accurate picture of conditions at all times on the Mountain. The relaunch of our CairnGorm Mountain App in anticipation of the winter season, will then give users full visibility of the main runs on the mountain in one easy to access location. In addition to the app, all live feeds from our webcams can be viewed at http://www.cairngormmountain.org/webcam-overview."

https://www.facebook.com/CairnGormMtn/posts/1535051226588390

It has been getting alot of negative feedback...


galpinos on 27 Nov 2017
In reply to mal_meech:

> Statement from Cairngorm mountain now online:


> It has been getting alot of negative feedback...

I've not read it all but the first thing that jumps out is that there were three webcams and they were inside the hut so that seems to somewhat undermine all of the post.

I'm also baffled as to their reasoning to remove "the webcam" without having the replacement ready to go.

jonnie3430 - on 27 Nov 2017
In reply to galpinos:

> I'm also baffled as to their reasoning to remove "the webcam" without having the replacement ready to go.

They're hiding something?
mal_meech on 27 Nov 2017
In reply to jonnie3430:

> They're hiding something?

seems the most likely explanation. This section of the statement:

> Our aim now will be to replace the webcam within the next week with a new one that feeds in to the rest of our systems, so that we can provide a live, accurate picture of conditions at all times on the Mountain.

Seems to suggest that a webcam outside of their control gives an inaccurate account.

mal_meech on 27 Nov 2017
In reply to galpinos:

Also no mention of the weather station, which also seems to be out of action.
galpinos on 27 Nov 2017
In reply to mal_meech:

> Seems to suggest that a webcam outside of their control gives an inaccurate account.

To me it suggests that a webcam out of their control is accessed by a website/app that is not theirs and they want the traffic going through their website/app, despite the effort the other website has put into maintain interest in and supporting Scottish snowsports.

jonnie3430 - on 27 Nov 2017
In reply to mal_meech:

> seems the most likely explanation. This section of the statement:

I would assume that some of the construction or maintenance work they need to do for this season doesn't have the necessary consent, probably environmentally...
Doug on 27 Nov 2017
In reply to galpinos:

or that they don't want any evidence of what they are doing to be visible by the public (otherwise why not wait till the replacement is in place)
Andy Johnson - on 27 Nov 2017
In reply to drmarten:

It feels like there's something I'm missing here. Can anyone clarify:

1. Who owns the hut?

2. Who owns the webcam?
mal_meech on 27 Nov 2017
In reply to Andy Johnson:

> It feels like there's something I'm missing here. Can anyone clarify:

> 1. Who owns the hut?
Scottish ski club
> 2. Who owns the webcam?
Winterhighland

Neither of which are CML...
Graham T - on 27 Nov 2017
In reply to mal_meech:

If the ski club needs funds to get a whole bunch more webcams then can they start a crowd funding page?

Am sure they could get enough for at least 20 very secure ones that could be put all over the building
galpinos on 28 Nov 2017
In reply to Graham T:

> If the ski club needs funds to get a whole bunch more webcams then can they start a crowd funding page?

> Am sure they could get enough for at least 20 very secure ones that could be put all over the building

The last three were INSIDE the building and that made no difference.
Graham T - on 28 Nov 2017
In reply to galpinos

True but it would really piss off cml so has to be worthwhile
Tam O'Bam - on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to drmarten:

Sounds like a criminal act may have been committed. (Theft, Malicious Mischief (a crime at common law) or Vandalism (Section 52 of the Criminal Law (Consolidation)(Scotland) Act 1995), etc.)

Have the Police been contacted?!.....
Phil Swainson - on 01 Dec 2017
In reply to Tam O'Bam:

Looking at many of the posts here, I would say people have reached some correct conclusions. I worked for many years in Glenmore just below the ski area, and you can all rest assured that the Cairngorms National Park Authority, responsible for planning decisions, will do nothing to enforce planning conditions, or do anything at all about unlawful developments in the area. It seems to me that political pressure is applied to favour developers. I have a file of correspondence obtained from the Forestry Commission under an FOI request with warnings of how a local developer does not hesitate to enlist the support of politicians. Despite presenting hard evidence of false claims in planning applications and other misdemeanors to the planning authority, an MSP, Scottish Ministers, Audit Scotland and the Scottish Charity regulator, no one will address the issue with this one developer, and I get the impression that the sames rules, or lack of, applies from Aviemore to the summit of Cairngorm. But keep pestering, and demanding accountability.

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