In reply to philhilo:
> ...and folk are often quick to judge on an inappropriate photo. Steep rock and overhangs don't hold snow so often appear bare from below, but when you see the route from above its a different story - snow stacked on every ledge and into the distance.
And conversely steep walls that look cosmetically very white with a layer of rime or hoar but ledges/ wide cracks that have very little build up of consolidated snow or ice, or even worse unfrozen turf.
Personally, I think that's the issue - what makes a route "in" is very different for different people.
If hooking your way up a steep rock climb above about V,6 say floats your boat and it doesn't rely on turf then a 'looks wintry' approach can usually be called, just look out for the loose blocks
A lot of less experienced climbers are taking the 'looks wintry' axiom and applying it to lower grades where any sort of consolidation would improve/ make easier/ be more acceptable. I see lots of references to 'turf well frozen' on routes I have climbed with neve/ice on all the ledges.
I often see comments of 'useless powder, time consuming, not well frozen' but reported as 'good early season conditions' when what they really mean is 'acceptable early season conditions'.
Fine if you want to tick off those lower grade classic routes in less than good conditions but don't confuse the issue. I think part of it is a desire to remove any admission that they climbed a route that was in poor condition.