/ Are you a send snob?

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mouseliveson - on 29 Nov 2017
Why are so many people averse to using 'send'?
I'm guessing it's because it's an American term?
What other terms should be avoided to evade the attack of the send snobs?
AlanLittle - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

Americanisms in general. Rappel. Carabiner-with-a-C. Pants.

Not to mention "break" hands on "break" ropes. I generally prefer to avoid those.

Sports climbng in the Peaks - don't do that either.
nniff - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

'Biner'. The correct abbreviation is 'krab' with a k.

Andy Johnson - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:
Crush
Dude
Biner
Post edited at 10:55
Andy Moles - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to AlanLittle:

> Americanisms in general. Rappel.

Rappel is French, dude bro.

Postmanpat on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

> Why are so many people averse to using 'send'?

>
Because it's a useless term.
beardy mike - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to AlanLittle:

Oh come on - we appropriated abseil from the Germans. And HMS. And karabiner. And Prussic. The americans took rappel from the French. Send is shit because it's trying too hard to be cool, not because it's american. As climbers we tend to like to think we are above being cool. And I got a news flash for you. We are-rent.
Hardonicus - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

It's alright getting all pissy about people objecting to Americanisms but who knows where it;ll end. One minute I'm getting really stoked as I crushed my latest project, next thing you know we have an American divorcee marrying the 5th in line to the throne.
HeMa on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

Rappel, bergschrund, syked
gribble - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

Undercling. I always thunk it was undercut.
ianstevens - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to HeMa:

> Rappel, bergschrund, syked

French, German, and finally you actually got an americanism.

Language gets appropriated all the time, especially in English (proper or US) which is a total mongrel language.
trouserburp - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:
'Climb on'
On what? The rock? I'm not ready stop rushing me
Cusco - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to Andy Moles:

One of my favourite George Bushisms:

"What's the French for rendezvous?"
HeMa on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to ianstevens:

I was thinking more in the lines of, which climbing terms a snob English gentleman would show dislike. ;) So picked a few ('cept for the 'murican talk) commonly used climbing terms of non-english origin.
badmarmot - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

For me it's not that it's an Americanism, I just think using it is like using "shredding the Pow Pow" when skiing, it's ok if your 12, in a red bull film or taking the mick, other than that its a bit naff, but what ever keeps you happy.
Shani - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

> Why are so many people averse to using 'send'?

> I'm guessing it's because it's an American term?

> What other terms should be avoided to evade the attack of the send snobs?

Squanch.
GarethSL on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

"Stick it"

"Good to go"

"Barfies"

"Dab"

"Rad"
Ramblin dave - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to AlanLittle:
> Americanisms in general. Rappel. Carabiner-with-a-C. Pants.

I think "pants" (or even the singular "pant") is particularly galling because it's normally used by the people who are selling the things, and comes with an implication of "we want you to buy our stuff, but we lack the basic respect for your culture to bother localizing what we call it for you."
Post edited at 11:50
Rigid Raider - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

In the UK the verb "send" has long been superseded by the less accurate and American-inspired "ship"because we buy everything online so why not just fully embrace change and say: "I'll ship down this here rock face..."
French Erick - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

> Why are so many people averse to using 'send'?

> I'm guessing it's because it's an American term?

> What other terms should be avoided to evade the attack of the send snobs?

Surely it only matters if you care. I dislike it because we don't live in America and I don't need American lingo to get motivated or American Athletes for that matter. Plenty of homegrown climbers I admire.

UKCers are grumpy f*ckers who need something to grump about. We jump at any weakness, be it spelling (I'm not great at that myself), foreignness (I can be a target, not that I give a flying monkeys about it...it entertains me), or ill-educated assumptions (ignorance not being an excuse and all that).

I love being a keyboard hero pedantically correcting the ways of others whilst dutifully avoiding to face mine. I expect people to know that UKC is my hunting ground and that, therefore, were they to feel slightly vulnerable it may not be their prime source of expression.

I do not consider myself a cyber-bully, but then all bullies would say that. I do get fed up with people being so easily offended unless they are ready to get into the fray in which case it becomes entertainment. Like boxing minus the physical pain.

I do not consider myself to be too snobbish either. But then that's not for me to say.
Good post, I liked it. Have a 4 (like the photos scale).
Hat Dude on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

> Why are so many people averse to using 'send'?

Because it's a crap term

"Send"? send it where?
The only routes I've done which aren't exactly where they were when I started them, are ones which have fallen down and I didn't send them anywhere, they went of their own accord!
AlanLittle - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to Hardonicus:

Or the actual king. Frankly it's all been downhill since then
planetmarshall on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to Cusco:

> One of my favourite George Bushisms:

> "What's the French for rendezvous?"

Not true, unfortunately.

https://www.snopes.com/quotes/bush.asp
Pursued by a bear - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to planetmarshall:

Indeed; still, a shame. Just as he never said that "The problem with the French is they have no word for entrepeneur", the quote captures more of the true image of the man than anything he actually did say.

T.
Steve Halfpenny - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

Wow does it really matter, let people say what they want I doesn't hurt anyone.
HeMa on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

Funnily enough, it seems UKC logbooks use that term for boulders...

Quite oddly they also offer Onsight, which international consensus disagrees (you can only Flash boulders, as all the holds are already clearly seen... unlike on that 8m high grit route ;). )
profitofdoom on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to Cusco:

> "What's the French for rendezvous?"

Le meeting
paul__in_sheffield - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to Andy Moles:

> Rappel is French, dude bro.

word
TheFasting on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to HeMa:
That seems weird to me. I mean, I can see all the holds on a boulder, but it doesn't mean I automatically know the correct beta. You can't really see all the holds every time either, sometimes they can be a bit hidden in a crack. That you can see them doesn't mean you know the best way to grip them. Case in point is all the times people see a video of a boulder and think it looks doable but it turns out the holds are nothing like they seemed on video. Maybe they look like jugs but turn out to be slopers, etc.

In reference to the topic, I like "send". And I didn't even know you guys didn't like carabiner. We also say "break hand" in Norway.

Benefit of ESL is that I can pick and choose which parts of which dialect (I guess American English is a dialect?) I want to use.
Post edited at 12:16
beardy mike - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to TheFasting:

> Benefit of ESL is that I can pick and choose which parts of which dialect (I guess American English is wrong) I want to use.

There you go. Corrected that for you ;)
GridNorth - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

Because it doesn't make sense, is ungrammatical and sounds stupid.

Al
Mike Highbury - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to beardy mike:
> Oh come on - we appropriated abseil from the Germans.

If it's to be OK, we got to say it right.

Ben_Climber - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

Bloc?
Wanderlust - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to planetmarshall:

> One of my favourite George Bushisms:

> "What's the French for rendezvous?"


> Not true, unfortunately.



Fool me once....

galpinos on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to badmarmot:

> For me it's not that it's an Americanism, I just think using it is like using "shredding the Pow Pow" when skiing, it's ok if your 12, in a red bull film or taking the mick, other than that its a bit naff, but what ever keeps you happy.

Too right, I shout, "on va dechire la peuf" and feel very classily continental........

Urban5teve - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

Personnally, I think using words from other regions of the world a total repugnant idea.

We should all revert to speaking Celtic.

Or grunting.

Ugg, Bro.
Urban5teve - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

I hang my head a bit when I hear people shouting "Alley" (not sure if spelled correctly??) inside climbing walls!
C Witter on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

In my limited experience, people who are particularly anxious about their perceived lack of education love to pick on others' language. "She said 'less'! 'Less'! Can you believe it? It's FEWER!!! I was just shouting at the TV."

They also enjoy quizzes and Jeremy Paxman.

I think the sociologists are calling it 'lexical over-compensation'... or 'dickishness' for short.

mouseliveson - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to badmarmot:

Yes but send seems reasonable
mouseliveson - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to Steve Halfpenny:

> Wow does it really matter, let people say what they want I doesn't hurt anyone.

I personally don't give a tit what you say
mouseliveson - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to Hardonicus:
> It's alright getting all pissy about people objecting to Americanisms but who knows where it;ll end. One minute I'm getting really stoked as I crushed my latest project, next thing you know we have an American divorcee marrying the 5th in line to the throne.

Funny because the English language is a stew of foreign languages. Or is it America specifically that we hate?
Post edited at 13:24
Neil Williams - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

> Why are so many people averse to using 'send'?

Because I climb routes/problems and send things in the post?

"Sending" a route would require an almightily large box.
Neil Williams - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to GridNorth:

> Because it doesn't make sense, is ungrammatical and sounds stupid.

This. I don't care where it comes from, it's just silly. When's the last time you climbed a cup of coffee, say?
The New NickB - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to Ramblin dave:
I’m always interested in claims that ‘pants’ to mean trousers is a wholly American term. As a kid growing up in the north of England in the 80s, pants was a common term for trousers. For example someone might refer to a pair of Farahs interchangeably as pants, slacks or trouser. I don’t think this was the influence of Starskey and Hutch, TJ Hooker, Dukes of Hazzard and the A Team. Pants in the underwear sense are of course “underpants”.
Post edited at 13:30
mouseliveson - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to Ramblin dave:

> I think "pants" (or even the singular "pant") is particularly galling because it's normally used by the people who are selling the things, and comes with an implication of "we want you to buy our stuff, but we lack the basic respect for your culture to bother localizing what we call it for you."

Total micro agression, shake that fist harder.
radddogg - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

Allez
Venga
cb294 - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to TheFasting:

Is "break hand" really an Americanism, or just a shit typo? Brake hand, sure, but why should one refer to an injury not particularly helpful for climbing?

CB
GrahamD - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:


> Why are so many people averse to using 'send'?

I think my main aversion is that it sounds stupid. It sounds like someone desperately trying to be cool and with it. And yes, the spectre of Red Bull is conjured up.

defaid - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:
'Send' is English, from both sides of the Atlantic. It's only a contraction of ascend: 'scend.

What I dislike is the consequent back-formation 'sent', although in its defence (note the letter c there), it does sound less foolish than 'scended.
Post edited at 13:47
mouseliveson - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to defaid:

> 'Send' is English, from both sides of the Atlantic. It's only a contraction of ascend: 'scend.

> What I dislike is the consequent back-formation 'sent', although in its defence (note the letter c there), it does sound less foolish than 'scended.

This made me laugh. Next time I'm going to be grammatically correct and start saying that.
Though the question is then, what is the past tense of 'send'?
mark hounslea - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:
‘Send’. Short for ascend
GrahamD - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mark hounslea:

> ‘Send’. Short for ascend

And it certainly sounds naff to say someone has "ascended" a boulder, rather than, say, "climbed" it.
mouseliveson - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to GrahamD:

> And it certainly sounds naff to say someone has "ascended" a boulder, rather than, say, "climbed" it.

Agreed. Though 'climbed' doesn't indicate you completed the climb does it?
Is 'topped' allowed? Is that an Americanism too? I'm losing track.
mouseliveson - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to Shani:

> Squanch.

What on earth is a squanch?
TheFasting on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to cb294:
Haha yeah I just noticed that. Can be hard to get that one right on the first try sometimes.
"Brake hand" of course.
Post edited at 14:54
Phil Anderson on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to C Witter:

> In my limited experience, people who are particularly anxious about their perceived lack of education love to pick on others' language. "She said 'less'! 'Less'! Can you believe it? It's FEWER!!! I was just shouting at the TV."

> They also enjoy quizzes and Jeremy Paxman.

> I think the sociologists are calling it 'lexical over-compensation'... or 'dickishness' for short.

Thank goodness you're above that sort of thing eh?
C Witter on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to Phil Anderson:

I try to be, but I have my weaknesses, it's true.
French Erick - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to French Erick:

> I love being a keyboard hero pedantically correcting the ways of others whilst dutifully avoiding to face mine.

FYI- alleZ from verb aller (to go) conjugated in the vous form.

On va déchireR la peuf. Needs to be in the infinitive form

Both endings sound the same hence people never being sure /-ay/




defaid - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

In this age of online retail I'd have to say that the past participle of 'send' is 'shipped'.
Shani - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

> What on earth is a squanch?

Jeez - I am wasted on you guys! Are there no Rick & Morty fans here?
Andy Moles - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to defaid:
We could run with that.

Your mate flashes a route: "Good effort man, shipped it first-class!"

If it's particularly impressive you can exclaim "special delivery!" or fold your arms and nod, "signed-for."
Post edited at 16:20
John Stainforth - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

In twenty years in America, I have never myself heard an American climber use the word "send" - but then I have not done much sport climbing. Other than that I have no problem with Americanisms: it's just the English language growing in a particular geographical area. Why on earth should we care whether we use "rapping" or "abseiling" for "roping down"? There are many Americanisms I really like. Perhaps the bigger problem is that many Brits are so far up their own bums they'd better watch it in case they sh*t. (That's an Americanism, BTW).
paul__in_sheffield - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to radddogg:

> Allez

> Venga

both of those plus 'send' and 'chapeau' for a high quality, smooth flash
Tanke - on 29 Nov 2017

As I get older the children and the teenagers say things I am turning head and 'What did you say'?Examples when they a saying 'Whatever'or'My bad''bae' 'buzzkill' and new one I hear is 'bantz'.I am thinking it is what new generations do to be part of new trends and think every generation has done this in history however as we get more older we frown on as it exemplify we are not longer young perhaps get indignant think our generation was better as we would not say such things but most chance that we did.Climbing kids same to others in this respect but in fact we know are much the cooler and daring rebels than peers.

Andy Hardy on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

A few weeks ago I did hear one of the shirtless brethren whooping "let's all get on the send train!" at the bouldering wall - made me smile a bit.
Christheclimber on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

Stem the dihedral or bridge the corner........
86inch - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to Shani:

> Jeez - I am wasted on you guys! Are there no Rick & Morty fans here?

Who are Rick and Morty???
Shani - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to 86inch:

> Who are Rick and Morty???

Nooooooooooooo
mrphilipoldham - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

I can’t remember which route it was, but I stumbled across an Instagram post from a young lady who claimed that “I can’t believe Joe Brown sent this route in 1951..”

That’s everything that’s wrong with the world right there, in a single sentence.
Chris Harris - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to Andy Hardy:

> A few weeks ago I did hear one of the shirtless brethren whooping "let's all get on the send train!" at the bouldering wall - made me smile a bit.

I suspect/hope they were taking this piss out of this:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=642665

Michael Gordon - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to thread:

It does have a more specific meaning than 'climb'. It refers usually to a successful ascent of a sport route or boulder problem after much work, i.e. a redpoint (though that term isn't usually used for bouldering). It's more annoying when someone uses it for a winter route or onsight rock ascent.
johncook - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to The New NickB:

In the North East underpants are 'shreddies'!
Andy Clarke - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

I have to confess that when I send a particularly testing (for me) grit highball, I find exclaiming, “F*ck yeah!”much more satisfying than any British English phrase of which I can think.
John Gresty - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

Do you still get the road sign 'Rappel' just before starting to drive through a French village. This confused me for many years.
Then discovered that it comes from the french verb ' Rappeller' which has as one of its meaning ' beware.' How it became to be use to describe sliding down a rope I do not know but can easily imagine somebody using this term before committing themselves to the descent. I quite like the term, seems very appropriate.

Shortening to it 'rap' disguises its real meaning, and looses its warning to 'take care'

John
rockface - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

Because send just means 'to climb', doesn't it? Why make up another word.
Andy Moles - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to rockface:

> Because send just means 'to climb', doesn't it? Why make up another word.

Yeah! Down with synonyms. Burn your thesaurus. Word austerity for a prosperous future.
Fraser on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

I'm fine with 'send' but the use of 'rig' is an entirely different matter.
Tom V - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to C Witter:

Actually your imaginary quotation was quite challenging to punctuate but as far as I can see you did the job properly.
Does that mean you are a Paxman fan? From your grouse shooting posts I thought you were more likely to be found watching the other Jeremy.

Martin Bennett - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to badmarmot:

> For me it's not that it's an Americanism, I just think using it is like using "shredding the Pow Pow" when skiing, it's ok if your 12, in a red bull film or taking the mick, other than that its a bit naff, but what ever keeps you happy.

You've got it. On the lips of anyone beyond adolescence, even if American (I'm not excusing them) "send" "pow" "rad" "crush" and other such cringeworthy words and phrases are an embarrassment.

Lion Bakes on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

> This made me laugh. Next time I'm going to be grammatically correct and start saying that.

> Though the question is then, what is the past tense of 'send'?

It is 'scent . If you have 'scent a lot of routes at a crag then it is said you have perfumed it. An alternate term is to say you have pissed all over the crag.
The New NickB - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to johncook:

> In the North East underpants are 'shreddies'!

A mate of mine uses the term, he isn’t from the North East, but I suspect some of his mates in the Army were.
Martin Bennett - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mark hounslea:

> ‘Send’. Short for ascend

Really? I'd dislike it less if I thought so but I understood it to be rather cleverer than that. I had it that the, to me unknown, originator was using "sent" as a cryptic synonym for "dispatch", in praising a climber for dealing efficiently with a route. As a one off it was a quite clever compliment. That it's found it's way into every day climbing parlance is unfortunate to say the least.
C Witter on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to Tom V:

I hope you mean Corbyn and not Clarkson...

Either way, as you can tell from my grouse shooting posts, I waste far too much time haunting these bloody forums to have time left to spare for watching any of the Jeremys...

On which note, I've work to do...
GrahamUney - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

Interesting. I always think it's people who say 'send' as being the send snobs. It sounds so pretentious. Can't you just say 'climb' or is that just not cool enough?
bouldery bits - on 29 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

'You've got the postage dood - so send it'
nniff - on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

'Running' makes my blood boil, in the sense; "Hey, I'm currently running BD Titan picks on my axes........."

For the avoidance of doubt, any correspondence that starts with "Hey" damages the enamel on my teeth.
Dave Perry - on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

Bloody hell. I did my first climb in 1963. I'm no great shakes as a climber but I must be getting old.

I haven't got a bloody clue what half those words actually mean in any relation to climbing. What an education.

There's need of a glossary as I can't follow the thread.
Jimbo C - on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

It's because 'send' means the action of making someone or something go to another location and has no relation to the word 'climb' which means to move in an upward direction.
HeMa on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to Jimbo C:

Actually, by your definition send would work... the person sent themself from the start of the boulder to the top ;).
GrahamD - on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to HeMa:

> Actually, by your definition send would work... the person sent themself from the start of the boulder to the top ;).

Send would only imply that they had started them on that path, not that they had arrived. Plenty of stuff gets lost in the post !
nniff - on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to Dave Perry:

> Bloody hell. I did my first climb in 1963. I'm no great shakes as a climber but I must be getting old.

These days one would say, "I sent my first rout (sic) in 1963". Apparently.
There's probably contemporary argot for everything else you said too.
Lord of Starkness - on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to beardy mike:

> Oh come on - we appropriated abseil from the Germans. And HMS. And karabiner. And Prussic.

Prussic is not a climbing term, it s a type of acid - Hydrogen Cyanide to be precise.

Prussik is a type of knot that was used as a means of ascending a rope - Hence prussiking.

JoshOvki on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to GrahamD:

> Plenty of stuff gets lost in the post !

I get lost on plenty of climbs so kind of works still!
fmck - on 30 Nov 2017
The term "mantleshelf " is pretty old and as most folks would relate to as the fireplace shelf. I suppose some terms can sound odd until they become the norm.
Timmd on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to rockface:
> Because send just means 'to climb', doesn't it? Why make up another word.

Imho, send doesn't mean anything if it's not about sending something in the post (or something similar). I'll not argue with anybody who doesn't agree though.
Post edited at 20:35
eroica64 - on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

Am I a send snob? Oh yes; I only ever use first class stamps....
stp - on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to rockface:

> Because send just means 'to climb', doesn't it? Why make up another word.

I don't think it does mean the same thing. Sending seems specific to sport climbing and bouldering and to me means to complete the route, or get the redpoint. It means when you've properly ticked it. That is when you've been trying something, usually by dogging it (another American term from the 70s that has caught here), when you a complete, free ascent then that's the send. So it's far more specific and has a much narrow use than 'climb'.
stp - on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to GrahamD:

> Send would only imply that they had started them on that path, not that they had arrived. Plenty of stuff gets lost in the post !

Brilliant. This made me laugh. Where else but on UKC could we find such a precise dissection of climbing terminology.
mark s - on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

there was a group at the roaches a few months ago as I just went for a walk, the were on some easy problem and then I heard the dreaded shout of 'allez' I could have smacked my head against the steps to the upper tier.

bloc is another that makes my stomach churn
AlanLittle - on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to cb294:

I assume either just a typo, or written by people who've only ever heard it said by instructors / friends and never seen it (correctly) written
AlanLittle - on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to Lord of Starkness:
Actually no. Prusik (spelt correctly) is a type of knot that very much still IS used as a means of ascending a rope, plus many other useful functions such as a capture device in improvised hauling systems.

If you want to be a pedant it helps if you get it right yourself
Post edited at 22:22
rockface - on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to stp:

Ah, fair play. Thank you.
AlanLittle - on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to Andy Moles:
Best thing I've seen on here for ages, I actually did laugh out loud. Thank you.
Post edited at 22:17
dsh - on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to Martin Bennett:

> You've got it. On the lips of anyone beyond adolescence, even if American (I'm not excusing them) "send" "pow" "rad" "crush" and other such cringeworthy words and phrases are an embarrassment.

That's funny because I live in America and my friends and I frequently have a great time crushing it every weekend sending pow filled lines. It can be embarrassing when you try to get rad under the lift but end up in a yard sale. Nobody is cringing though as we all have big smiles on our faces. Then we crush some beers. Awesome dude bro.
AP Melbourne on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to Jimbo C:

>.... the word 'climb' which means to move in an upward direction.

Unless it is a traverse surely Jimbo?
Adding to a later post, thank The Lord I don't climb anymore coz if I heard 'bloc' or 'allez' at Araps I'd willingly forego my bottle of beer and smash them over the head with it!

As the delightful & legendary Louise Shepherd wrote for my little book ',,, back in the nineties climbers sent postcards, they didn't send climbs,,,'.
captain paranoia - on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to Lord of Starkness:

If you're going to be pedantic, try to get it right...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prusik
captain paranoia - on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to AlanLittle:

Chapeau...

<cough>
stp - on 30 Nov 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

> Why are so many people averse to using 'send'?

I think it's a really interesting question.

I'll admit I'm a send snob though I'm not really sure why. I think it's something to do with being English, our reserve perhaps. Maybe as others have said I'm scared it would sound pretentious. When I think of the term I hear it in an American accent and because I'm not American it just seems wrong. But if I was living out there and the term was used regularly amongst those I climbed with I'm sure I would be fine with using it in just a few months.

I notice that the Americans seem far freer with their use of language. They invent new terms and phrases with far more frequency that we do. When I was living in the states I was amazed at all the different climbing terms there were. I quite like their colourful and creative approach to using language. Some like 'dirt me' made me laugh.
Neil Williams - on 01 Dec 2017
In reply to The New NickB:

“Kecks” is of course the correct term
leland stamper on 01 Dec 2017
In reply to captain paranoia:

Sorry, I can't tell if you are taking the piss or using the term"chapeau", straight if you get my meaning.
leland stamper on 01 Dec 2017
In reply to stp:

What exactly do you mean by "dogging"? I think my partner is a dog snob, but then some days I'll just dog whatever is in front of me. Be gentle here.
Andy Moles - on 01 Dec 2017
In reply to stp:
> I notice that the Americans seem far freer with their use of language. They invent new terms and phrases with far more frequency that we do. When I was living in the states I was amazed at all the different climbing terms there were. I quite like their colourful and creative approach to using language.

That's interesting, when I've been in the States I've often thought the opposite. My impression is that they use the same words all the time, but polish them up with confident assertion into infectious and irresistible soundbites, so that soon you're doing the same.

Everything bad sucks (ok maybe sometimes it 'blows'). And for emphasis, instead of using an adverb you just use capitals and add more exclamation marks ("man that crack was THIN!!!!"). Again this has an exception, namely 'super'.

But I'm not sure whether both your observation and mine are biased by a failure to notice the same in our own culture.
Post edited at 10:21
paul mitchell - on 01 Dec 2017
In reply to nniff:

woah,doods! like toadally...
like you know...let's all SEND it way to the rad doods!!
DubyaJamesDubya - on 01 Dec 2017
In reply to Pursued by a bear:

> Indeed; still, a shame. Just as he never said that "The problem with the French is they have no word for entrepeneur", the quote captures more of the true image of the man than anything he actually did say.

> T.

I thought he said they don't understand the meaning of it.
DubyaJamesDubya - on 01 Dec 2017
In reply to HeMa:

> Funnily enough, it seems UKC logbooks use that term for boulders...

> Quite oddly they also offer Onsight, which international consensus disagrees (you can only Flash boulders, as all the holds are already clearly seen... unlike on that 8m high grit route ;). )

Erm the clue is in the word on... sight!
HeMa on 01 Dec 2017
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

Yes, but even if you call a ball, rabbit... doesn't mean we all should start calling balls rabbits. General consensus and all...
DubyaJamesDubya - on 01 Dec 2017
In reply to 86inch:

> Who are Rick and Morty???

Climbers?
captain paranoia - on 01 Dec 2017
In reply to leland stamper:

> I can't tell if you are taking the piss or using the term"chapeau", straight

Hat tip to AlanLittle for beating me to the pedantry. But then acknowledging my use of the controversial (at least in the context of this thread) 'chapeau'...
cb294 - on 01 Dec 2017
In reply to Lord of Starkness:

Ha, I outnerd you!

Karl Prusik, the inventor of the eponymous knot, has of course only one "s" in his last name! Hence, you use a Prusik knot to prusik up a rope.

In all likelihood, though, he was not the first person to use that knot back in Vienna in 1931, but he certainly did popularize it in the climbing context.

CB

DubyaJamesDubya - on 01 Dec 2017
In reply to HeMa:

> Yes, but even if you call a ball, rabbit... doesn't mean we all should start calling balls rabbits. General consensus and all...

But I'm not aware of this consensus so I'll stick with the meaning of the word.
stp - on 01 Dec 2017
In reply to leland stamper:

> What exactly do you mean by "dogging"?

I think this is one where climbing usage predates the more general use of the term today. It's short for hangdogging. That is after having fallen off a route instead of lowering back down you hang, take a rest and try the next moves. The abbreviated form is 'dog'. The term originated in the States but has been widely adopted here, perhaps because there is no alternative.
stp - on 01 Dec 2017
In reply to Andy Moles:

> That's interesting, when I've been in the States I've often thought the opposite. My impression is that they use the same words all the time, but polish them up with confident assertion into infectious and irresistible soundbites, so that soon you're doing the same.

I can see that and perhaps our views aren't contradictory. I think perhaps once new terms and phrases come into popular use they use them far more frequently. But then they have a faster turnover of new phrases than us.



> But I'm not sure whether both your observation and mine are biased by a failure to notice the same in our own culture.

That's a good point and I suspect there is some of that. But when I think of new climbing terms that originate from the UK I struggle to think many. Is 'guppy' a British term? Most new terms we use seem to be imports from elsewhere.

john arran - on 01 Dec 2017
In reply to stp:

Sprag?, Volume?, Gaston? (in the context of the hold type), Sketchy?, Beast?, ...

May be shown to be wrong on some of those.
stp - on 01 Dec 2017
In reply to john arran:

Sprag is one of ours but decades old. Not sure about volume, but certainly born of necessity to describe something that didn't exist. Gaston is named after a guy who I believe was American. He couldn't jam so climbed cracks by pulling them apart. Sketchy? Not sure, certainly used in the US though. Beast could be ours though it has wide usage outside climbing (like www.beastskills.com) and almost certainly predates climbing.

Crozzly I think is also British, though hardly new. So yeah there's undoubtedly a few, but not many compared to US climbing culture.
john arran - on 01 Dec 2017
In reply to stp:

Gaston was from Gaston Rebuffat, who was a famous French Alpinist; the rest of your explanation is about right though. I think it was Brits that adapted the term for similar use but with only one hand. Anything that had usage outside climbing already can still count, as it's the adoption of terms within a climbing context that's important.

Ones I like best are Egyptian (definitely American, from the Bangles song) and the really old Desmond (rhyming slang for Desmond Decker, so maybe British.)
Dogwatch - on 02 Dec 2017
In reply to defaid:

> 'Send' is English, from both sides of the Atlantic. It's only a contraction of ascend: 'scend.

I don't think so. It's origins seem to be from the 1930s as a jazz term of approval for something good or well accomplished. Wilko Johnson had a band in the late 1970s called the "Solid Senders" which was a reference to that usage.

Dogwatch - on 02 Dec 2017
In reply to leland stamper:

> What exactly do you mean by "dogging"?

My wife once cheerfully told some friends I was out dogging. She meant walking with the dogs. Her friends looked surprised.

Dogwatch - on 02 Dec 2017
In reply to John Gresty:
> Do you still get the road sign 'Rappel' just before starting to drive through a French village. This confused me for many years.

> Then discovered that it comes from the french verb ' Rappeller' which has as one of its meaning ' beware.'

Actually in that context it means "reminder". There's a speed limit sign, then a series of "Rappel" (reminder) signs.
Post edited at 07:10
john arran - on 02 Dec 2017
In reply to Dogwatch:

I don't think that's right either. In the 70s it wasn't uncommon to hear a report of a climber finally dispatching a route, having succeeded on it after some effort. This became adapted by the Americans as Sent, and for a while in the 80s you would even sometimes hear Faxed.
GridNorth - on 02 Dec 2017
In reply to john arran:

> Ones I like best are Egyptian (definitely American, from the Bangles song) and the really old Desmond (rhyming slang for Desmond Decker, so maybe British.)

Do you know that for a fact? I would have thought it more likely that it was named after the poses struck on wall art and artifacts found in ancient Egyptian sites.

Al
Martin Bennett - on 02 Dec 2017
In reply to GrahamUney:
> Interesting. I always think it's people who say 'send' as being the send snobs. It sounds so pretentious. Can't you just say 'climb' or is that just not cool enough?

I agree. "Climb" is cool because climbing is cool and always has been (some disciplines within the genre being cooler than others[!]). "Send" in this context is, as you say, pretentious and just . . . well . . . trying too hard, and thus sounds and looks, when written, ludicrous. Happily for all it's use does seem to be on the wane. With luck we've seen the last of (so called) journalistic aberrations such as the headline "4 Weeks to Sending Fitness" or "Hemetzberger was able to send Europe's hardest multi-pitch" and, worse yet, blogs with titles such as "Send Climbing". It was with some mirth I realised there's a climbing wall somewhere in Britain called "The Send". I ask you!

By the way, beware of searching for send related blogs. I did and found myself about to subscribe to something called a "sending church" via "The Send Network" and it's "Send Network Church Planting Blog". Opens up a whole new can o' worms.
Post edited at 11:02
Martin Bennett - on 02 Dec 2017
In reply to Dogwatch:

> My wife once cheerfully told some friends I was out dogging. She meant walking with the dogs. Her friends looked surprised.

Like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMikaIYbFu8
Andy Clarke - on 02 Dec 2017
In reply to Dogwatch:

> It's origins seem to be from the 1930s as a jazz term of approval for something good or well accomplished. Wilko Johnson had a band in the late 1970s called the "Solid Senders" which was a reference to that usage.

In jazz/blues/beat slang, "to send" meant to excite or thrill and "a solid sender" referred to an attractive/sexy woman, as in the John Lee Hooker song. So on that basis, the route is probably more likely to send the climber than vice versa!
john arran - on 02 Dec 2017
In reply to GridNorth:

> Do you know that for a fact? I would have thought it more likely that it was named after the poses struck on wall art and artifacts found in ancient Egyptian sites.

Pretty much for a fact, yes. I was living in the US at the time when that song came out and remember 'walking like an Egyptian' on the way to doing Equinox in JTree. Using that term for a climbing move emerged at the same time, so the song - or more likely the dancing in the video - definitely inspired it. Although it could be argued it's a chicken and egg situation as the dance will have mimicked the art, I doubt the term would have been adopted in climbing were it not for the popularity of the song at that time.
DancingOnRock - on 02 Dec 2017
In reply to defaid:

> 'Send' is English, from both sides of the Atlantic. It's only a contraction of ascend: 'scend.

> What I dislike is the consequent back-formation 'sent', although in its defence (note the letter c there), it does sound less foolish than 'scended.

Thanks for that. I was trying to work out what the OP was going on about and the only thing I could think of was maybe ascend.

Ascend: to go up.
Ascent: when you a describing a completed a climb.
Ascended: past participle of Ascend.
john arran - on 02 Dec 2017
In reply to defaid:
> 'Send' is English, from both sides of the Atlantic. It's only a contraction of ascend: 'scend.

> What I dislike is the consequent back-formation 'sent', although in its defence (note the letter c there), it does sound less foolish than 'scended.

The only problem with this credible-sounding theory is that it's wrong! ;-)

Sent came before Send, and was an American popular version of Dispatched, which itself was used in magazine reports, like 'Jim had been tying the route for months with no success, when Brian turned up and dispatched it in short order'. Any audible similarity with ascent or ascend is purely coincidental, although by the look of this thread it seems that many people nowadays seem to think otherwise. Doesn't really matter, but would be nice to feel that history isn't being rewritten.
Post edited at 13:13
Martin Hore - on 02 Dec 2017
In reply to ianstevens:

> Rappel, bergschrund, syked

> French, German, and finally you actually got an americanism.

Isn't it "psyched" - and I thought that was ancient Greek.

Martin
Robert Durran - on 02 Dec 2017
In reply to HeMa:

> So picked a few ('cept for the 'murican talk) commonly used climbing terms of non-english origin.

I don't find "send" as irritating as your weird use of apostrophes!

Tom V - on 02 Dec 2017
In reply to john arran:

My mate Toby uses "send" to describe part of the sexual act.

As in " I was sending into her big style when the f*cking dog jumped on my back!"
It might just be a South Yorkshire thing.
stp - on 02 Dec 2017
In reply to john arran:

> The only problem with this credible-sounding theory is that it's wrong! ;-)

Thanks for that John. I had my doubts, mainly because climbers never use the term 'ascend' in this context so it couldn't be a shortened version of that.

jon on 03 Dec 2017
In reply to john arran:

> Pretty much for a fact, yes. I was living in the US at the time when that song came out and remember 'walking like an Egyptian' on the way to doing Equinox in JTree. Using that term for a climbing move emerged at the same time,

When was that, John?

john arran - on 03 Dec 2017
In reply to jon:

> When was that, John?

1986 IIRC
jon on 03 Dec 2017
In reply to john arran:

> Ones I like best are Egyptian (definitely American, from the Bangles song)

> 1986 IIRC

I think the term was in reasonably general usage around then in the UK. Whether or not it came from the song or not I've no idea. We/I used it completely independently simply because of the image of Egyptians - I've never heard of the song, or the Bangles for that matter, until today. That may of course say more about my musical interests than the word's origins, of course


john arran - on 03 Dec 2017
In reply to jon:
I suppose it's impossible to say now with 100% certainty, but it certainly seemed completely obvious at the time. The song came out, everyone started turning sideways and doing Egyptian-type movements, and right at the same time the same word started to be used for a similar shape movement on rock. I don't know how big the song was in the UK, but if it wasn't big then I can see how the Egyptian art image itself could have been plenty enough to popularise this new term here too once it crossed the Atlantic.

Edit: Look it up on youtube - it's quite fun ;-)
Post edited at 12:08
cb294 - on 03 Dec 2017
In reply to john arran:

Seconded, I lived in Seattle in 85/86, and I first became aware of the term "Egyptian" as used in a climbing context right around when the song came out in 86, but IIRC not before. The song of course could not be avoided at all, must have been on radio rotation once an hour!

CB
jon on 03 Dec 2017
In reply to john arran:

> Look it up on youtube - it's quite fun ;-)

Just did. No recollection of it at all (mind you I was living in Capel Curig at the time...) However, it does seem to focus on the arm movements more than legs. The question is though, why write a song about walking like an Egyptian? The only answer I can come up with is... that they were all climbers and decided to write a song about the latest climbing move! If it had been the 70s they'd have done one on heel hooking
springfall2008 - on 03 Dec 2017
In reply to mouseliveson:

Mainly because it's not correct English, you send a letter not a climb!
Robert Durran - on 03 Dec 2017
In reply to john arran:

> Ones I like best are Egyptian

Confusingly, I've heard the term "back and footing" used to mean Egyptian, I think, among other instances, by John Dunne about the Big Issue - there didn't appear to be any chimneys on the route!

I do remember the terms "Hawaii", "Joe" and "Queen Mum" being used to denote falls of length 50, 90 and 100 ft respectively....... but maybe that was just me!

Stone Idle - on 03 Dec 2017
In reply to Robert Durran:

Love the Joe 90.... but back and foot is a chimneying technique using, Er, back and foot
Dogwatch - on 04 Dec 2017
In reply to jon:

> The question is though, why write a song about walking like an Egyptian?

Classic pop formula, a song that people who cannot dance can perform simple dance moves to. Amongst other things, it's a description of waitresses carrying a tray.


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