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What signals do we send to the world if we either allow or block Trump's State Visit to the UK?
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In reply to The Lemming:
I don't think it's still being called a State Visit. I think it was downgraded a few weeks ago (probably because the Palace didn't want to be associated with something so deeply divisive and unpopular) ? ?
I don't think it's still being called a State Visit. I think it was downgraded a few weeks ago (probably because the Palace didn't want to be associated with something so deeply divisive and unpopular) ? ?
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In reply to The Lemming:
In one form or another of course he will. Our European bridges are ablaze. The government can't afford to torch another. He'll just be hidden from the public behind a security cordon and surrounded by sycophants and professional arse lickers (as he is in America) for a few days.
jk
In one form or another of course he will. Our European bridges are ablaze. The government can't afford to torch another. He'll just be hidden from the public behind a security cordon and surrounded by sycophants and professional arse lickers (as he is in America) for a few days.
jk
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In reply to The Lemming:
They have just mentioned on the news that the invitation comes from the Queen, so she is the one in a difficult position - should she meddle in politics?
I would expect it to carry on in some form.
They have just mentioned on the news that the invitation comes from the Queen, so she is the one in a difficult position - should she meddle in politics?
I would expect it to carry on in some form.
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In reply to Moley:
I think the Queen might be unhappy about it, but she has to do what the government tells her to basically.
I say bring it on. Let's see the reactions & protests.
I think the Queen might be unhappy about it, but she has to do what the government tells her to basically.
I say bring it on. Let's see the reactions & protests.
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In reply to stubbed:
Yes, I think it should go ahead, and the country should encourage the biggest crowd ever to come out and line the streets, so that they can silently turn their backs on the procession as it passes.
Might not do our trade prospects with the USA much good though, or maybe it would, because it seems he is despised by a very large number of Americans too.
> I think the Queen might be unhappy about it, but she has to do what the government tells her to basically.
> I say bring it on. Let's see the reactions & protests.
Yes, I think it should go ahead, and the country should encourage the biggest crowd ever to come out and line the streets, so that they can silently turn their backs on the procession as it passes.
Might not do our trade prospects with the USA much good though, or maybe it would, because it seems he is despised by a very large number of Americans too.
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In reply to jkarran:
By the time brexit has finally come around, surely Trump will be either impeached or nearing the end of his first (and only) term in office. So it might only be a bridge charring rather than burning surely.
> In one form or another of course he will. Our European bridges are ablaze. The government can't afford to torch another.
By the time brexit has finally come around, surely Trump will be either impeached or nearing the end of his first (and only) term in office. So it might only be a bridge charring rather than burning surely.
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In reply to Derry:
Trump will get two terms, provided he puts his name forward.
As for entering the UK, isn't there a law stopping people entering who incite violence or advocate hate speech?
Trump will get two terms, provided he puts his name forward.
As for entering the UK, isn't there a law stopping people entering who incite violence or advocate hate speech?
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In reply to Derry:
Possibly but I don't think anyone should discount the real possibility of a second term if he remains fit to run for it (fit here used in the loosest possible way with a little bit of sick in my throat). Still, I think there's a good chance the brexit process will still be rumbling on in 7 years so who knows!
jk
> By the time brexit has finally come around, surely Trump will be either impeached or nearing the end of his first (and only) term in office. So it might only be a bridge charring rather than burning surely.
Possibly but I don't think anyone should discount the real possibility of a second term if he remains fit to run for it (fit here used in the loosest possible way with a little bit of sick in my throat). Still, I think there's a good chance the brexit process will still be rumbling on in 7 years so who knows!
jk
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In reply to The Lemming:
They should issue the invite; then as The Star Spangled Banner is played as he steps off Airforce One, Theresa and the rest of the waiting dignitaries take a knee.
They should issue the invite; then as The Star Spangled Banner is played as he steps off Airforce One, Theresa and the rest of the waiting dignitaries take a knee.
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In reply to The Lemming:
I fear you are right.
> Trump will get two terms, provided he puts his name forward.
I fear you are right.
In reply to Trangia:
One of Trump's biggest problems is that he cannot take criticism. He is quite thin skinned and I'd be interested to see what his reaction would be if what you suggest were to take place.
Certainly I would personally welcome the opportunity to do so.
I'd love the Duke of Edinburgh to come out with one of his trademark comments, maybe about his hair do or his constant use of twitter
> ...encourage the biggest crowd ever to come out and line the streets, so that they can silently turn their backs on the procession as it passes.
One of Trump's biggest problems is that he cannot take criticism. He is quite thin skinned and I'd be interested to see what his reaction would be if what you suggest were to take place.
Certainly I would personally welcome the opportunity to do so.
I'd love the Duke of Edinburgh to come out with one of his trademark comments, maybe about his hair do or his constant use of twitter
Post edited at 11:40
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In reply to The Lemming:
Let him come, let people protest, and let the American people watch it.
Our relationship with America will persist beyond Trump. Important to stick with them through this mess.
Let him come, let people protest, and let the American people watch it.
Our relationship with America will persist beyond Trump. Important to stick with them through this mess.
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In reply to The Lemming:
I think it should go ahead. It should be regarded as an opportunity to educate the phuqwit.
Show him round a few hospitals to show him how a health service can care for everyone in the country at a cost per head of 1/4 the cost of his phuqed up US system. Take him out on patrol with a few unarmed policemen to show him the effect of gun control. Take him to a few different community centres in ethnically diverse cities to show him how we live together and how Muslims aren't a bunch of murdering bastards as he would have his gullible supporters think.
Stuff like that.
I think it should go ahead. It should be regarded as an opportunity to educate the phuqwit.
Show him round a few hospitals to show him how a health service can care for everyone in the country at a cost per head of 1/4 the cost of his phuqed up US system. Take him out on patrol with a few unarmed policemen to show him the effect of gun control. Take him to a few different community centres in ethnically diverse cities to show him how we live together and how Muslims aren't a bunch of murdering bastards as he would have his gullible supporters think.
Stuff like that.
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In reply to mypyrex:
On facebook I came across an event being arranged for people to go and jeer at him (when he eventually turns up). It might have been to moon him or for people to turn their backs, but definitely one of the three.
It wasn't something I made sure to remember accurately.
> One of Trump's biggest problems is that he cannot take criticism. He is quite thin skinned and I'd be interested to see what his reaction would be if what you suggest were to take place.
> Certainly I would personally welcome the opportunity to do so.
> I'd love the Duke of Edinburgh to come out with one of his trademark comments, maybe about his hair do or his constant use of twitter
On facebook I came across an event being arranged for people to go and jeer at him (when he eventually turns up). It might have been to moon him or for people to turn their backs, but definitely one of the three.
It wasn't something I made sure to remember accurately.
Post edited at 13:25
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In reply to jkarran:
I agree that he is likely to be re-elected if he runs.
It often seems to me that the US public now view the presidential term as a one-time-only eight year appointment with the opportunity to get rid half way through.
I agree that he is likely to be re-elected if he runs.
It often seems to me that the US public now view the presidential term as a one-time-only eight year appointment with the opportunity to get rid half way through.
Post edited at 14:19
In reply to pasbury:
I read of somewhere, a dictatorship, where they were getting annoyed with the sarcastic applause which people were greeting them with each time they arranged to 'make a speech to the people'.
> I'd happily show him my arse.
I read of somewhere, a dictatorship, where they were getting annoyed with the sarcastic applause which people were greeting them with each time they arranged to 'make a speech to the people'.
Post edited at 14:34
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In reply to Andy Johnson: I don't think he'd get reelected. Hes got bad numbers and a lot of people are pretty dissatisfied. So far his base is holding up, but only at 38% ish and three years of tax increases, worsening healthcare and general incompetence could kill that. Let's see what some more local and midterms tell us. Watch the Ray Moore election - anything less than a strong victory is a bad sign for Trump
Unless his two terms become the sort which have time off for good behaviour
Unless his two terms become the sort which have time off for good behaviour
In reply to Removed User:
I think you are missing the most depressing aspect of Trump era politics, the fact that truth and living proof of the kind you talk about simply makes no difference. If it doesn't fit their world view, it's fake news and they just double down harder on their beliefs. it's so depressing as an American to think that a high percentage of your country men can't even listen to reason any more.
> I think it should go ahead. It should be regarded as an opportunity to educate the phuqwit.
> Show him round a few hospitals to show him how a health service can care for everyone in the country at a cost per head of 1/4 the cost of his phuqed up US system. Take him out on patrol with a few unarmed policemen to show him the effect of gun control. Take him to a few different community centres in ethnically diverse cities to show him how we live together and how Muslims aren't a bunch of murdering bastards as he would have his gullible supporters think.
> Stuff like that.
I think you are missing the most depressing aspect of Trump era politics, the fact that truth and living proof of the kind you talk about simply makes no difference. If it doesn't fit their world view, it's fake news and they just double down harder on their beliefs. it's so depressing as an American to think that a high percentage of your country men can't even listen to reason any more.
Post edited at 14:58
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In reply to wbo:
I think the democrats need someone very inspiring to win, and Bernie is getting on a bit, otherwise Trump may well do a second term if he chooses to. As the last election showed, what is actually going on means zilch to the US electorate, I mean FFS if they can vote for him once they can vote for anything. It's not like he was any different prior to becoming president. The other and more likely scenario is for him to spark a war, because historically Americans never throw out war presidents.
I think the democrats need someone very inspiring to win, and Bernie is getting on a bit, otherwise Trump may well do a second term if he chooses to. As the last election showed, what is actually going on means zilch to the US electorate, I mean FFS if they can vote for him once they can vote for anything. It's not like he was any different prior to becoming president. The other and more likely scenario is for him to spark a war, because historically Americans never throw out war presidents.
In reply to wbo:
The tax rises are being structured so the bite on the poorest won't be felt until after Trumps first term. Even the ending of Obamcare was carefully set up so that people wouldn't actually lose their health care until after his term.
Other than biblical storms and gun massacres, the common man still doesn't know that Trump is screwing them.
The tax rises are being structured so the bite on the poorest won't be felt until after Trumps first term. Even the ending of Obamcare was carefully set up so that people wouldn't actually lose their health care until after his term.
Other than biblical storms and gun massacres, the common man still doesn't know that Trump is screwing them.
In reply to The Lemming:
How old is he now?
> Trump will get two terms, provided he puts his name forward.
How old is he now?
In reply to The Lemming:
I was thinking a mass golden shower would be good. But then I remembered he likes that kinda thing
I was thinking a mass golden shower would be good. But then I remembered he likes that kinda thing
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In reply to Trangia:
This is the nub of it, isn't it? I thought the US reputation abroad reached its nadir with George the Chimp. However Trump seems to have drawn even my most fervent Republican chums into loathing him, no mean feat.
I do not think that the "welcome" he receives, no matter how pointed, will do us any harm.
> Might not do our trade prospects with the USA much good though, or maybe it would, because it seems he is despised by a very large number of Americans too.
This is the nub of it, isn't it? I thought the US reputation abroad reached its nadir with George the Chimp. However Trump seems to have drawn even my most fervent Republican chums into loathing him, no mean feat.
I do not think that the "welcome" he receives, no matter how pointed, will do us any harm.
Post edited at 01:44
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In reply to JMGLondon:
There's a problem here in that almost none of Trump's voters really follow international news.
> Let him come, let people protest, and let the American people watch it.
There's a problem here in that almost none of Trump's voters really follow international news.
In reply to sg:
This is true, and the news they do listen to is generally bespoke. I'm more concerned about what the rest of the world thinks about us though. I love the idea of silence and turned backs but that's never going to happen so we should make as much noise as possible so the entire world hears it, for the sake of our own dignity.
> There's a problem here in that almost none of Trump's voters really follow international news.
This is true, and the news they do listen to is generally bespoke. I'm more concerned about what the rest of the world thinks about us though. I love the idea of silence and turned backs but that's never going to happen so we should make as much noise as possible so the entire world hears it, for the sake of our own dignity.
In reply to The Lemming:
On the news last night reporters were suggesting that British MP's should treat and deal with Trump in the sam way that his own staff treat him.
And that is to carry on with business around him. His own staff basically ignore him, what he says and does, and just run the country.
How did the USA get a petulant child on a permanent Bring Your Child to work Day?
We've all probably been in jobs or offices where the staff carry their boss and just get on with the job because the only alternative is to quit.
But you can't run a country like the USA is doing because what the boss is saying is being seen and heard by millions of people around the world.
That can't be good?
On the news last night reporters were suggesting that British MP's should treat and deal with Trump in the sam way that his own staff treat him.
And that is to carry on with business around him. His own staff basically ignore him, what he says and does, and just run the country.
How did the USA get a petulant child on a permanent Bring Your Child to work Day?
We've all probably been in jobs or offices where the staff carry their boss and just get on with the job because the only alternative is to quit.
But you can't run a country like the USA is doing because what the boss is saying is being seen and heard by millions of people around the world.
That can't be good?
In reply to The Lemming:
The Daily Telegraph reports that the "working visit" (NOT a State visit) has been "put off"
Can't read whole article without a subscription but given that everyone always screamingly demands a link, here is a link.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/30/donald-trumps-working-visit-uk-d...
The Daily Telegraph reports that the "working visit" (NOT a State visit) has been "put off"
Can't read whole article without a subscription but given that everyone always screamingly demands a link, here is a link.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/30/donald-trumps-working-visit-uk-d...
In reply to The Lemming:
As long as the Tories are determined to have Brexit and Trump is President we can't piss him off unless we really want to melt down economically. One thing that is certain about Trump is he is takes things personally and bears grudges for a long time.
The Chinese and French showed the way: give him the full state visit with maximum pomp, really stroke his ego, he is far more interested in feeling important than the economically important things like the terms of trade deals. Use that to our advantage and get the Royals to earn their money with the whole Buckingham Palace and gold plated carriages thing.
As long as the Tories are determined to have Brexit and Trump is President we can't piss him off unless we really want to melt down economically. One thing that is certain about Trump is he is takes things personally and bears grudges for a long time.
The Chinese and French showed the way: give him the full state visit with maximum pomp, really stroke his ego, he is far more interested in feeling important than the economically important things like the terms of trade deals. Use that to our advantage and get the Royals to earn their money with the whole Buckingham Palace and gold plated carriages thing.
In reply to Blue Straggler:
Oh really? Got a link to back up that proposition?
> but given that everyone always screamingly demands a link
Oh really? Got a link to back up that proposition?
In reply to The Lemming:
Interesting article:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/01/trump-gossip-columnist-medi...
Arguably the biggest possible news fuss that can be spun back to the support base is more important.
Interesting article:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/01/trump-gossip-columnist-medi...
Arguably the biggest possible news fuss that can be spun back to the support base is more important.
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