In reply to Thrudge:
> I think you're trying to blur lines that most people can see very well. Islam *is* different to Christianity and Judaism, and it is worse; particularly, it is worse when you consider the current forms of those religions.
I think that these lines that "most people can see very well" are illusory.
Within all of the major religions, there is a great diversity of belief and values. Within Judaism, for example, you get huge numbers who hardly even believe in god, they do a few anachronistic rituals, but their religion is much more like a club. It's pretty hard to object to these kind of Jewish values, because they aren't really values at all. On the other hand the Hasidic guys with the ludicrous get-up are mad and evil. The way they treat apostates is unbelievable: they will destroy their lives. These are values that we do not want in our society. This degree of diversity lies within all the major religions.
Certainly in UK Christianity, the statistical balance is hugely weighted away from the appalling, regressive types and towards the more-or-less secular, friendly jumble sales and carol singing types who I have no beef with. And unfortunately in Islam the proportion of conservatives - those with the regressive values about women, and gays and all the rest - is much higher.
But it's outright wrong to say that these conservative Muslim values, which are awful, are what typify Islam in the UK as a whole - because we have a huge Muslim middle class, full of doctors and lawyers and teachers and dentists and the rests, who don't subscribe to the regressive conservative values being taught in the mosques and madrasas of inner city Bradford.
Your assertion that there is a difference between what Islam in modern Britain is like compared to other religions is an oversimplification. I agree that it is "worse" - but not because Muslim values are regressive whereas Jewish and Christian values are not. What is worse is that within Islam, a higher proportion are conservative compared to the other religions, but there is still a huge middle class, modern, moderate Muslim population. For this reason, calling for "fewer Muslims" - or policies to achieve that - comes across as bigoted. What we want are policies that shift the balance of conservative Muslims towards an overwhelmingly moderate Muslim population.
By arguing for "fewer Muslims", and characterising Muslim values as regressive, you're stirring up alienation, distrust and division. It pushes the moderate Muslim population away from the cause, when they're the people you need on side if you want to see less of the regressive conservative Muslim values.
I'm not an apologist conservative Islam, which is a real force for evil in our society. But by saying "we want fewer Muslims in our society", you're going to make the situation worse, not better. What we want is more Muslims to ditch the conservative values and join the moderate, integrated Muslims whose values we have no problems with.
Post edited at 21:58