/ Brilliant idea to reduce turf damage, FAO Tiso, Cotswold etc.

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Roberttaylor - on 05 Dec 2017
I bailed off a route recently (Deep Cut Chimney) when, on getting a few moves into the route, I found the turf wasn't frozen. To downclimb would have been awkward and unpleasant so I rigged an abseil (two snapgates, a hex and a sling) and my partner and I abbed all the way to the base of the crag

Later that day I popped in to a gear shop in Aviemore to replace the gear I'd left (and it's just as well, as I needed that size of hex on the next route I did). I asked if they offered a discount for gear lost when retreating due to unfrozen turf; they did not.

In order to lessen the financial burden of abbing off a route (and in turn encourage this behaviour in order to protect a resource) why don't Tiso, Cotswold etc. offer some sort of 'good ethics' discount. It would work this way; you'd pop into the shop, tell them which route you were trying and why you abbed off and the manager or whoever could make the decision to give you the good ethics discount or not, only on the replacement gear of course. 30% would be nice. I doubt any of the smaller retailers could afford to offer this but any retailer offering this would earn my goodwill and custom, and not only when I've bailed off something.

Thoughts?




Also, no abusing this and saying you abbed off a new pair of walking poles.



Dell on 05 Dec 2017
In reply to Roberttaylor:

Come on, it's a terrible idea.
DerwentDiluted - on 05 Dec 2017
In reply to Roberttaylor:

If I were a gear shop manager I'd use your halo as a urinal.
guy127917 - on 05 Dec 2017
In reply to Roberttaylor:

I think it was Will Gadd who offered to personally pay for replacement nuts to replace any people left behind backing up shitty rap anchors in the Canadian rockies- just a photo required.

Maybe you could make a similar pledge?
Michael Gordon - on 05 Dec 2017
In reply to Roberttaylor:

"Yes, I abbed off 5 cams, honest!"
Lion Bakes on 05 Dec 2017
In reply to Roberttaylor:

Or maybe they could fine you for littering.

Heike - on 05 Dec 2017
In reply to Roberttaylor:

Hmm, nice idea, but no. We backed off Deep Cut Chimney before years ago as it was not frozen enough, we down climbed taking the gear out as we we went....You go up there , your responsibility I would say. Yes, if in absolute extremis you have to leave one nut and crab fine, but I would never ask anyone to pay for it. It is your decision to go up there, your responsibility to make sure the place is preserved for future ascents. No gear manufacturer has any responsibility. IMHO
Purple - on 05 Dec 2017
In reply to Roberttaylor:
Brilliant idea to reduce turf damage, FAO Tiso, Cotswold etc.

Am I in a time warp? Is it April the 1st?

bouldery bits - on 05 Dec 2017
In reply to Roberttaylor:

Sadly,it's part of the game. If you've got to retreat it's probably going to cost you. Bad times.

Goucho on 06 Dec 2017
In reply to Roberttaylor:
Great idea.

But don't mess about with a paltry 30% discount, go all in for at least 70%.

In fact I'd take it even further, and force them to compensate you for the psychological trauma you suffered due to the disappointment of the route not being in condition as well.

How does punitive damages of around 500 quid per pitch sound?

I think you're definitely onto a winner here.

If I ran a climbing shop, you're certainly the type of loyal customer I'd want to go out of my way to keep happy.
Post edited at 00:04
Lusk - on 06 Dec 2017
In reply to Goucho:

I'm not entirely convinced by your very reasonable suggestion. A far cheaper option would possibly be that these shops should just take an initial hit and equip any turfy routes with abseil stations every 25 metres.
And free coffee to anyone who has made use of them.
cb294 - on 06 Dec 2017
In reply to Roberttaylor:

What about an ice axe made of an alloy that gets soft and jelly like at around freezing point?

CB
subtle on 06 Dec 2017
In reply to cb294:

> What about an ice axe made of an alloy that gets soft and jelly like at around freezing point?

My axe normally goes hard when its getting hot,

pebbles - on 06 Dec 2017
In reply to Roberttaylor:

dont really understand why you think they would give you a discount coz you had to bail on your gear, isn that one of the things we carry it for?
Nathan Adam - on 06 Dec 2017
In reply to Roberttaylor:

How much is your life worth?

Go halfers with you mate if it's that financially crippling.
Guy Hurst - on 06 Dec 2017
In reply to Roberttaylor:

This is a great idea. After I've headed into the hills, forgotten my sarnies and been forced to eat the mangled Mars Bar festering in the bottom of my rucksack, my local supermarket should be obliged to replace it without charge — preferably with a multi-pack, just to be extra safe.
timjones - on 06 Dec 2017
In reply to Roberttaylor:

So, to sum up, you misjudged the conditions and you want other people to subsidise your incompetence?
Wee Davie - on 06 Dec 2017
In reply to Roberttaylor:

I imagined teams of shop staff rapping down the damaged crags with Black Diamond wheelbarrows full of earth and grass seed. That'd sort it.
petestack - on 06 Dec 2017
In reply to Roberttaylor:

> I asked if they offered a discount for gear lost when retreating due to unfrozen turf

You what?
Fruit on 06 Dec 2017
In reply to petestack:

Surely ‘You WHAAT!?!!!!??!?!’ ;-)
doz on 06 Dec 2017
In reply to Roberttaylor:

what your bad ideas like?


In reply to Roberttaylor:

> why don't Tiso, Cotswold etc. offer some sort of 'good ethics' discount.

Because they would go bust very rapidly and going bust isn’t what businesses aim for!
Ron Rees Davies - on 07 Dec 2017
In reply to Roberttaylor:

Perhaps a better idea would be for the retailers to apply a "W@nkers surcharge" and add 50% to the price of any pairs of large nuts, hexes or slings bought during the winter period. This might both improve their profit margins AND encourage good ethics by making people think twice before starting a route when conditions are unlikely to be good enough.....
Dave Perry - on 07 Dec 2017
In reply to Roberttaylor:

Good ethics would demand that you don't climb routes until properly frozen.

Which isn't a few days of freezing weather!
Michael Gordon - on 07 Dec 2017
In reply to Ron Rees Davies:

> Perhaps a better idea would be for the retailers to apply a "W@nkers surcharge" and add 50% to the price of any pairs of large nuts, hexes or slings bought during the winter period.

If they did that it would be well named anyway!

Andy Moles - on 07 Dec 2017
In reply to Roberttaylor:

Solid effort. Takes a bit of craft to fly under the troll alert radar, you've pulled it off nicely. Have a dislike on me.
Phil79 - on 07 Dec 2017
In reply to Roberttaylor:

Why stop there? Why not have a sliding scale of ethics to be applied to all replacement gear purchases?

For example if I wear out a rope taking repeated lead falls ground up on an E11 first ascent on an undiscovered cliff in North Korea, I get a 99.9% discount.

Whereas if I destroyed it top roping at Stanage wearing muddy boots, I have to pay cost plus 500%?
Tam O'Bam - on 08 Dec 2017
In reply to Roberttaylor:

Nicely framed!

Amazing the number of people who think you're serious!!

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