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No, not Boris, the other one. The ink is barely dry and he's already screwing you - and us - over, in another bid to become PM.
And just for the record, Michael - it's not going to happen.
And just for the record, Michael - it's not going to happen.
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
I read that he’s already been crowing that we’d won the first battle against the EU, which is a) of very dubious truth and b) really f*cking stupid when we’re about to head into the next critical stage of negotiations with them, especially given that they hold most of the cards.
I despair.
I read that he’s already been crowing that we’d won the first battle against the EU, which is a) of very dubious truth and b) really f*cking stupid when we’re about to head into the next critical stage of negotiations with them, especially given that they hold most of the cards.
I despair.
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Have you actually read the article? (which was reportedly passed by Downing Street before publication)
Have you actually read the article? (which was reportedly passed by Downing Street before publication)
Post edited at 09:44
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In reply to Postmanpat:
Sorry PP, no I haven't, I've only heard the report on R4 and the BBC. Have they got it totally wrong then? If so, I'll be delighted.
Sorry PP, no I haven't, I've only heard the report on R4 and the BBC. Have they got it totally wrong then? If so, I'll be delighted.
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In reply to Yanis Nayu:
Brilliant!
"It will instead transition to a lengthy period of driving round to its ex’s house at night, sitting in the car outside with a bottle of vodka, and texting a cocktail of pure venom and pleas to get back together, until the police are called."
W
Brilliant!
"It will instead transition to a lengthy period of driving round to its ex’s house at night, sitting in the car outside with a bottle of vodka, and texting a cocktail of pure venom and pleas to get back together, until the police are called."
W
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In reply to Postmanpat:
I can't bear the sight of his face or the oily sound of his voice. He is traitorous weasle. For those reasons alone he should go.
> Have you actually read the article? (which was reportedly passed by Downing Street before publication)
I can't bear the sight of his face or the oily sound of his voice. He is traitorous weasle. For those reasons alone he should go.
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In reply to Postmanpat:
I have. Amidst the waffle and spin, and the obsequious flattery aimed at May we see this: “If the British people dislike the arrangement that we have negotiated with the EU, the agreement will allow a future government to diverge.”. Sounds like he’s hedging his bets there to maintain a platform for a future leadership bid.
> Have you actually read the article? (which was reportedly passed by Downing Street before publication)
I have. Amidst the waffle and spin, and the obsequious flattery aimed at May we see this: “If the British people dislike the arrangement that we have negotiated with the EU, the agreement will allow a future government to diverge.”. Sounds like he’s hedging his bets there to maintain a platform for a future leadership bid.
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In reply to Bob Kemp:
I have too now and 100,% agree. Uriah Heep springs to mind.
And what on Earth are our European partners supposed to think? Assuming they are negotiating in good faith, they have just been put on notice by a UK minister of state that any agreement will only last as long as the current administration. So why bother?
I have too now and 100,% agree. Uriah Heep springs to mind.
And what on Earth are our European partners supposed to think? Assuming they are negotiating in good faith, they have just been put on notice by a UK minister of state that any agreement will only last as long as the current administration. So why bother?
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In reply to Bob Kemp:
That’s one interpretation. The other is that he’s accepted the “deal” but in order to keep the hard line brexiteers on board has pointed out the obvious truth that ultimately parliament and the electorate can change things.
That’s one interpretation. The other is that he’s accepted the “deal” but in order to keep the hard line brexiteers on board has pointed out the obvious truth that ultimately parliament and the electorate can change things.
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
They are going to think that they better write all kinds of penalty clauses into the agreement because the Tories are already thinking about how to renege.
> And what on Earth are our European partners supposed to think? Assuming they are negotiating in good faith, they have just been put on notice by a UK minister of state that any agreement will only last as long as the current administration. So why bother?
They are going to think that they better write all kinds of penalty clauses into the agreement because the Tories are already thinking about how to renege.
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In reply to Yanis Nayu:
What a load of drivel!
I almost made it as far as the 5th paragraph before losing the will to live or read on
What a load of drivel!
I almost made it as far as the 5th paragraph before losing the will to live or read on
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In reply to Postmanpat:
Do you think he's got wind of the fact that more and more of "the people" are beginning to get an inkling of the enormity they have unleashed and are starting to get a bit more real about trade etc. and wants to be seen as their leader when the national mood spins back . I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him, in the future, leading a campaign to rejoin the EU. What a total shitter he is.
> That’s one interpretation. The other is that he’s accepted the “deal” but in order to keep the hard line brexiteers on board has pointed out the obvious truth that ultimately parliament and the electorate can change things.
Do you think he's got wind of the fact that more and more of "the people" are beginning to get an inkling of the enormity they have unleashed and are starting to get a bit more real about trade etc. and wants to be seen as their leader when the national mood spins back . I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him, in the future, leading a campaign to rejoin the EU. What a total shitter he is.
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In reply to Pete Pozman:
Very unlikely. Your abuse suggests that you have simply fallen for the lefty hate figure story and abandoned any attempt at objective thought. Kinder , gentler politics and all that.
Very unlikely. Your abuse suggests that you have simply fallen for the lefty hate figure story and abandoned any attempt at objective thought. Kinder , gentler politics and all that.
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In reply to MG:
I doubt it. If you take the hater view that everything he says is a lie then I suppose it is a logical conclusion, but if you think that things are a little bit more grey than that it is not the obvious or even a very likely conclusion.
Actually I don't think he much wanted the leadership even when he stood for it, but who knows? Since then he may have caught the fever but even then it doesn't mean that every he time he takes a shit it is in pursuance of that end.
> You think he isn’t angling to be PM?
I doubt it. If you take the hater view that everything he says is a lie then I suppose it is a logical conclusion, but if you think that things are a little bit more grey than that it is not the obvious or even a very likely conclusion.
Actually I don't think he much wanted the leadership even when he stood for it, but who knows? Since then he may have caught the fever but even then it doesn't mean that every he time he takes a shit it is in pursuance of that end.
Post edited at 16:43
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In reply to MG:
He blew that long ago.
Waiting in the wings are a few younger Tories who have not blotted their copybooks and have interesting ideas.
Time will tell if they step into the limelight.
He blew that long ago.
Waiting in the wings are a few younger Tories who have not blotted their copybooks and have interesting ideas.
Time will tell if they step into the limelight.
In reply to Postmanpat:
I've not signed up to that. These people are venal, corrupt, heartless, unimaginative and self righteous; everything you need to know about Brexit you can tell from the calibre and morals of its supporters: Farage, Dacre, Johnson, the Barclays, 'Lord' Ashcroft, Fox... I'm ashamed to be from the same country.
Lower than vermin; it was true in 1945 and, with pitifully few exceptions, it's true now.
I've not signed up to that. These people are venal, corrupt, heartless, unimaginative and self righteous; everything you need to know about Brexit you can tell from the calibre and morals of its supporters: Farage, Dacre, Johnson, the Barclays, 'Lord' Ashcroft, Fox... I'm ashamed to be from the same country.
Lower than vermin; it was true in 1945 and, with pitifully few exceptions, it's true now.
Post edited at 16:44
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Which self righteous view just confirms why discussion isn't worth it. Bye. I'm out.
> Lower than vermin; it was true in 1945 and, with pitifully few exceptions, it's true now.
Which self righteous view just confirms why discussion isn't worth it. Bye. I'm out.
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In reply to neilh:
Like extrajudicial killing,!?
You are right of course, but I’m sure Gove still wants it
> He blew that long ago.
> Waiting in the wings are a few younger Tories who have not blotted their copybooks and have interesting ideas.
Like extrajudicial killing,!?
You are right of course, but I’m sure Gove still wants it
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Well, at least you’re helping prove pec’s point: “Try this challenge, randomly select 10 political threads on here and add up the number of personal insults against Tory politicians Vs Labour and then tell me its not a left wing echo chamber.”
Waste of time.
Well, at least you’re helping prove pec’s point: “Try this challenge, randomly select 10 political threads on here and add up the number of personal insults against Tory politicians Vs Labour and then tell me its not a left wing echo chamber.”
Waste of time.
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In reply to Postmanpat:
Or that the current government is Tory so they're obviously going to catch more flak than the other parties, aren't they. Add to that that, even objectively, they're a f*cking shambles and good reasons for them getting more abuse start to emerge. Compound things further with them having the "honour" of delivering Brexit and an opposition who are, person-to-person, virtually anonymous, and *of course* the Tories are getting more shit than Labour.
My brother's a dyed-in-the-wool Conservative voter and even he's given up defending this shower.
Or that the current government is Tory so they're obviously going to catch more flak than the other parties, aren't they. Add to that that, even objectively, they're a f*cking shambles and good reasons for them getting more abuse start to emerge. Compound things further with them having the "honour" of delivering Brexit and an opposition who are, person-to-person, virtually anonymous, and *of course* the Tories are getting more shit than Labour.
My brother's a dyed-in-the-wool Conservative voter and even he's given up defending this shower.
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In reply to Postmanpat:
Welcome back - and I mean that, there are some good Tories, even now!. And I'm no Corbynsta.
BUT I bitterly resent the fact that my children and grandchildren will no longer be European, no longer be able to catch a train at Waterloo and get a job in Prague the next day.
I believe that there are genuine risks of shooting wars breaking out that the European project has spent 60 years eradicating.
I believe that Brexit could be the UK equivalent of Prohibition - there *could* be so much chaos in 2019 that corruption, tax avoidance and illegality will become ingrained in UK culture - we will gradually become a tax haven banana republic, with public services and social justice left well behind the interests of an increasingly entrenched oligarchy dominating the media, the government and the legislature. We will become Trumpian.
I genuinely fear that all that is possible, if not inevitable; and I do despise all those who I checked in my post. You will of course note some obvious omissions.
Welcome back - and I mean that, there are some good Tories, even now!. And I'm no Corbynsta.
BUT I bitterly resent the fact that my children and grandchildren will no longer be European, no longer be able to catch a train at Waterloo and get a job in Prague the next day.
I believe that there are genuine risks of shooting wars breaking out that the European project has spent 60 years eradicating.
I believe that Brexit could be the UK equivalent of Prohibition - there *could* be so much chaos in 2019 that corruption, tax avoidance and illegality will become ingrained in UK culture - we will gradually become a tax haven banana republic, with public services and social justice left well behind the interests of an increasingly entrenched oligarchy dominating the media, the government and the legislature. We will become Trumpian.
I genuinely fear that all that is possible, if not inevitable; and I do despise all those who I checked in my post. You will of course note some obvious omissions.
Post edited at 20:43
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
What the Balkans? Peace; Isn't NATO the glue here, not the eu that is binding nations militarily.
The millions spent annually lobbying the eu by many large corporations and their representative bodies. The fraud within the eu development grants schemes, cap etc.
Poland where the politicians have restructured and appointment judges who they 'approve of'? Catalans,?...
If only the uk was as perfect as the eu.
> the European project has spent 60 years eradicating.
What the Balkans? Peace; Isn't NATO the glue here, not the eu that is binding nations militarily.
> corruption
The millions spent annually lobbying the eu by many large corporations and their representative bodies. The fraud within the eu development grants schemes, cap etc.
> tax avoidance
You mean Ireland, Netherlands and Luxembourg? > with public services and social justice
Poland where the politicians have restructured and appointment judges who they 'approve of'? Catalans,?...
If only the uk was as perfect as the eu.
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In reply to summo:
Since joining or plan to join the EU, yes. Prior to that, no.
> Isn't NATO the glue here, not the eu that is binding nations militarily.
Both. NATO defensive. EU cooperative.
>
> What the Balkans? Peace;
Since joining or plan to join the EU, yes. Prior to that, no.
> Isn't NATO the glue here, not the eu that is binding nations militarily.
Both. NATO defensive. EU cooperative.
>
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In reply to Postmanpat:
Yeah, everyone loves Corbyn's labour here, never a harsh word spoken of him.
Yeah, everyone loves Corbyn's labour here, never a harsh word spoken of him.
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In reply to MG:
Yeah, everyone loves Corbyn's labour here, never a harsh word spoken of him.
I think there's a slight difference in the terminology used about Labour MP's as opposed to their Conservative counterparts. Even when people are criticising Corbyn & Co, they don't tend to resort to things like: Lower than vermin, etc.
Yeah, everyone loves Corbyn's labour here, never a harsh word spoken of him.
I think there's a slight difference in the terminology used about Labour MP's as opposed to their Conservative counterparts. Even when people are criticising Corbyn & Co, they don't tend to resort to things like: Lower than vermin, etc.
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In reply to FactorXXX:
No, they like to make references to communist mass murderers of the twentieth century, which is much nicer.
> I think there's a slight difference in the terminology used about Labour MP's as opposed to their Conservative counterparts. Even when people are criticising Corbyn & Co, they don't tend to resort to things like: Lower than vermin, etc.
No, they like to make references to communist mass murderers of the twentieth century, which is much nicer.
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In reply to Yanis Nayu:
You despair, What about all the Remainers boosting the EU by telling them that they 'hold all the cards'
Least said the better , on both sides.
> I read that he’s already been crowing that we’d won the first battle against the EU, which is a) of very dubious truth and b) really f*cking stupid when we’re about to head into the next critical stage of negotiations with them, especially given that they hold most of the cards.
> I despair.
You despair, What about all the Remainers boosting the EU by telling them that they 'hold all the cards'
Least said the better , on both sides.
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In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:
No, they like to make references to communist mass murderers of the twentieth century, which is much nicer.
They call Corbyn a 'communist mass murderer', or, they compare him loosely to the likes of Stalin?
Subtle difference...
No, they like to make references to communist mass murderers of the twentieth century, which is much nicer.
They call Corbyn a 'communist mass murderer', or, they compare him loosely to the likes of Stalin?
Subtle difference...
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In reply to FactorXXX:
Loose comparisons with mass murderers is fine is it? Because he wants to nationalise the railways? Thanks for proving my point about bias.
Loose comparisons with mass murderers is fine is it? Because he wants to nationalise the railways? Thanks for proving my point about bias.
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In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:
Loose comparisons with mass murderers is fine is it? Because he wants to nationalise the railways? Thanks for proving my point about bias
A loose comparison to Stalin, would be saying for example: 'That Corbyn and nationalising stuff is a bit like what Stalin did'. To try and say that means Corbyn's critics on UKC think he's comparable to Stalin's more unsavoury stuff is a little bit ridiculous...
Loose comparisons with mass murderers is fine is it? Because he wants to nationalise the railways? Thanks for proving my point about bias
A loose comparison to Stalin, would be saying for example: 'That Corbyn and nationalising stuff is a bit like what Stalin did'. To try and say that means Corbyn's critics on UKC think he's comparable to Stalin's more unsavoury stuff is a little bit ridiculous...
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In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:
Well didn't one of Corbyns allies choose to physically reference chairman maos little red book once in house of commons? And he has personally sung the red flag in public many times...
> No, they like to make references to communist mass murderers of the twentieth century, which is much nicer.
Well didn't one of Corbyns allies choose to physically reference chairman maos little red book once in house of commons? And he has personally sung the red flag in public many times...
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In reply to FactorXXX:
As is getting upset when someone says something nasty about swivel eyed loons for wanting to destroy 50 years of European progress. People complaining about this sort of thing marks them out as paranoid. Like how all extreme politicians, left or right, think the BBC is out to get them
> A loose comparison to Stalin, would be saying for example: 'That Corbyn and nationalising stuff is a bit like what Stalin did'. To try and say that means Corbyn's critics on UKC think he's comparable to Stalin's more unsavoury stuff is a little bit ridiculous...
As is getting upset when someone says something nasty about swivel eyed loons for wanting to destroy 50 years of European progress. People complaining about this sort of thing marks them out as paranoid. Like how all extreme politicians, left or right, think the BBC is out to get them
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In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Why anyone would vote Tory is beyond me and labour are just as bad though JC is a massive improvement on the Thatcherite Labour aristocracy mob.
How dare anyone compare the superman that was Stalin to one of these social democratic enemies of communism.
Labour governments have attacked as many actual socialist countries as the Tories over the years.
The Labour party have nothing to do with communism at all.
Why anyone would vote Tory is beyond me and labour are just as bad though JC is a massive improvement on the Thatcherite Labour aristocracy mob.
How dare anyone compare the superman that was Stalin to one of these social democratic enemies of communism.
Labour governments have attacked as many actual socialist countries as the Tories over the years.
The Labour party have nothing to do with communism at all.
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In reply to FactorXXX:
You've either not been paying attention to what people have written on here, or you're being disingenuous.
Oops, look at summo's comment above. Right on cue...
You've either not been paying attention to what people have written on here, or you're being disingenuous.
Oops, look at summo's comment above. Right on cue...
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In reply to Jim C:
Do you honestly believe the EU needed us to tell them that?
> You despair, What about all the Remainers boosting the EU by telling them that they 'hold all the cards'
Do you honestly believe the EU needed us to tell them that?
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In reply to Jim C:
The EU definitely haven’t already realised that...
It’s a shame people who voted to leave hadn’t realised it too before they voted to “get our country back”
> You despair, What about all the Remainers boosting the EU by telling them that they 'hold all the cards'
> Least said the better , on both sides.
The EU definitely haven’t already realised that...
It’s a shame people who voted to leave hadn’t realised it too before they voted to “get our country back”
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In reply to MG:
As is getting upset when someone says something nasty about swivel eyed loons for wanting to destroy 50 years of European progress. People complaining about this sort of thing marks them out as paranoid.
I don't think people get upset at the language being used, it's just indicative at the current level of debate with certain users on UKC at the moment which is effectively closing down any rational discussion about anything to do with Brexit.
I voted Remain, but can see both the positives and negatives for remaining and leaving the EU. However, I see there is absolutely no point in posting anything pro leaving in Brexit threads because anything pro leaving will be automatically ridiculed and dismissed out of hand.
As is getting upset when someone says something nasty about swivel eyed loons for wanting to destroy 50 years of European progress. People complaining about this sort of thing marks them out as paranoid.
I don't think people get upset at the language being used, it's just indicative at the current level of debate with certain users on UKC at the moment which is effectively closing down any rational discussion about anything to do with Brexit.
I voted Remain, but can see both the positives and negatives for remaining and leaving the EU. However, I see there is absolutely no point in posting anything pro leaving in Brexit threads because anything pro leaving will be automatically ridiculed and dismissed out of hand.
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In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:
You've either not been paying attention to what people have written on here, or you're being disingenuous.
Oops, look at summo's comment above. Right on cue...
Well didn't one of Corbyns allies choose to physically reference chairman maos little red book once in house of commons? And he has personally sung the red flag in public many times...
Vs
Lower than vermin
Really comparable...
You've either not been paying attention to what people have written on here, or you're being disingenuous.
Oops, look at summo's comment above. Right on cue...
Well didn't one of Corbyns allies choose to physically reference chairman maos little red book once in house of commons? And he has personally sung the red flag in public many times...
Vs
Lower than vermin
Really comparable...
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In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:
I made a real time observation of real events that have actually happened. Compared to the left here just verbally slagging people off just because they don't agree with them. The tolerant caring free speech loving left showing their true colours as usual?
> You've either not been paying attention to what people have written on here, or you're being disingenuous.
> Oops, look at summo's comment above. Right on cue...
> Oops, look at summo's comment above. Right on cue...
I made a real time observation of real events that have actually happened. Compared to the left here just verbally slagging people off just because they don't agree with them. The tolerant caring free speech loving left showing their true colours as usual?
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In reply to summo:
The phrase “enemies of the people” and “traitors” ring any bells? Maybe Brexiters are just snowflakes...
> I made a real time observation of real events that have actually happened. Compared to the left here just verbally slagging people off just because they don't agree with them. The tolerant caring free speech loving left showing their true colours as usual?
The phrase “enemies of the people” and “traitors” ring any bells? Maybe Brexiters are just snowflakes...
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In reply to MG:
The phrase “enemies of the people” and “traitors” ring any bells?
UKC or Daily Mail?
The phrase “enemies of the people” and “traitors” ring any bells?
UKC or Daily Mail?
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In reply to FactorXXX:
You make a fair point about the level of discourse, but i would disagree that there is no point you explaining what the upsides of Brexit might be - lots of us on the remain side have been crying out for some reasoned arguments about benefits!
You make a fair point about the level of discourse, but i would disagree that there is no point you explaining what the upsides of Brexit might be - lots of us on the remain side have been crying out for some reasoned arguments about benefits!
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In reply to FactorXXX:
I would really like to hear what you think the positives might be in leaving the EU.
ps. The only one I can think of is that a lowered pound might increase tourism to the UK.
I would really like to hear what you think the positives might be in leaving the EU.
ps. The only one I can think of is that a lowered pound might increase tourism to the UK.
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In reply to FactorXXX:
I'd be interested. Problem is most of what gets offered is ridiculous so it gets ridiculed. Genuine positives that aren't obviously outweighed by their baggage, that I'd be fascinated to hear because they're few and far between.
jk
> I voted Remain, but can see both the positives and negatives for remaining and leaving the EU. However, I see there is absolutely no point in posting anything pro leaving in Brexit threads because anything pro leaving will be automatically ridiculed and dismissed out of hand.
I'd be interested. Problem is most of what gets offered is ridiculous so it gets ridiculed. Genuine positives that aren't obviously outweighed by their baggage, that I'd be fascinated to hear because they're few and far between.
jk
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In reply to jkarran:
Ironically I can put together of a vision of a Brexit UK that is almost plausible and desirable ... something that combines democratic traditions, solid commercial and industrial skills, probably the most established economic infrastructure in the world, fair labour policies, a competent and pragmatic civil service, recognition of post colonial responsibilities, long established rule of law, functioning political system, respect at arms length for Europe... and then a Brexiteer, ANY Brexiteer, says something and makes me realise that we simply aren't on the same planet. They appear to be entirely motivated by impulses which I don't recognise, and driven by passions I find hateful.
Ironically I can put together of a vision of a Brexit UK that is almost plausible and desirable ... something that combines democratic traditions, solid commercial and industrial skills, probably the most established economic infrastructure in the world, fair labour policies, a competent and pragmatic civil service, recognition of post colonial responsibilities, long established rule of law, functioning political system, respect at arms length for Europe... and then a Brexiteer, ANY Brexiteer, says something and makes me realise that we simply aren't on the same planet. They appear to be entirely motivated by impulses which I don't recognise, and driven by passions I find hateful.
Post edited at 19:58
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In reply to FactorXXX:
summo's justifying his and others' comparing Labour politicians to communist mass murderers in his post. Or do you think he just randomly thought to mention this out-of-context?
> You've either not been paying attention to what people have written on here, or you're being disingenuous.
> Oops, look at summo's comment above. Right on cue...
> Well didn't one of Corbyns allies choose to physically reference chairman maos little red book once in house of commons? And he has personally sung the red flag in public many times...
> Vs
> Lower than vermin
> Really comparable...
summo's justifying his and others' comparing Labour politicians to communist mass murderers in his post. Or do you think he just randomly thought to mention this out-of-context?
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In reply to Postmanpat:
Yes, that's how I read it; whatever soft Brexit is negotiated, a future, even more swivel-eyed loon government could go for a harder Brexit. I don't think he's suggesting going the other way, for an even softer Brexit, or maybe even a reconciliation...
> The other is that he’s accepted the “deal” but in order to keep the hard line brexiteers on board has pointed out the obvious truth that ultimately parliament and the electorate can change things.
Yes, that's how I read it; whatever soft Brexit is negotiated, a future, even more swivel-eyed loon government could go for a harder Brexit. I don't think he's suggesting going the other way, for an even softer Brexit, or maybe even a reconciliation...
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In reply to 8A machine elf:
Sorry - coming to the party a bit late. And I have a very low sensitivity to irony and sarcasm - but did you just refer to Stalin as a 'superman' and call everyone else in Labour an enemy of communism on that basis?
You do know about the things that Stalin did, right?
Or you were joking...?
Sorry - coming to the party a bit late. And I have a very low sensitivity to irony and sarcasm - but did you just refer to Stalin as a 'superman' and call everyone else in Labour an enemy of communism on that basis?
You do know about the things that Stalin did, right?
Or you were joking...?
In reply to Pete Pozman:
Have you been watching The Crown on Netflix?
> I can't bear the sight of his face or the oily sound of his voice. He is traitorous weasle. For those reasons alone he should go.
Have you been watching The Crown on Netflix?
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