UKC

Having used my petzl quarks in norway at -17C with poor technique I took to sharpening as a response to hard ice. Very often bollards fell off around my pick, whereas those climbers with technique and different axes succeed in flicking the axe into the ice successfully on the first strike.

I was wondering whether pick weights were widely used or should I just stick the basic quark with sharp picks and work on technique to solve my problems.

In reply to mutt:


Technique, quarks work well and as long as they are sharp then they will easily get you up WI4/5. You may fancy some nomics for pure ice in the future as an option.

In reply to mutt:

I found adding the pick weights helps. They're a bit pricey but, relative to what you've laid out for the tools, not that bad. Certainly cheaper than an extra pair of axes!

In reply to mutt:

Another money saver in the long run is to get a second set of picks that you only use on ice.

In reply to mutt:

I've a dedicated set of picks for water ice, drop the hammer and adze and add pick weights which works well for me. I haven't tried the newest pure ice picks but found reshaping the front tooth on the U19 picks helped a lot too.

In reply to mutt:
It’s as much where you hit the ice as how you hit it. Aim for depressions but not behind big lumps that can crack off. Also don’t hit it too hard you don’t want your whole pick in the ice just enough of the tip.

But yeah really cold ice is always going to be more prone to dinner plate. Also if you can just hook existing placements or perhaps tap a bit further in to them then that’s generally easier and much less likely to break ice off.

It’s worth sharpening the pick and if you’ve used it a lot for mixed you may need to sharpen and deepen the teeth too. Be wary of removing too many teeth if your pick shortens, as on hard ice you may not have many teeth holding the pick in

In reply to mutt:

n + 1= a

where n is the number of axes you own and a is the number of axes you need.

You may find the Petzl Pur'Ice pick worth a look too as I assume your Quarks come with the 'ice' pick as standard. Almost everyone I know who climbs with Petzl axes uses weights for ice and do report a difference. Though thin and very sharp picks are the best for hard or very brittle ice. Removing the first tooth can also help.

https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Ice-axes/PUR-ICE

On technique however, to not want to improve your swing would just be daft. Don't over drive your axes on hard ice, as long as its not wobbly and you get some solid feedback down the shaft then the axe is solid. Another thing you can do is hammer in one tool with the other, to improve the placement, if the ice is super brittle.

In reply to GarethSL:



If n is an odd number then yes this equation almost certainly holds.

In reply to planetmarshall:

Damn, should have thrown a 'pair' in there somewhere. Always sucked at mathematics.

In reply to planetmarshall:

What happens if n =3?

In reply to mutt:

The new pur'ice pick may remove the need for altering the picks but I found the following useful on the 2011 standard ice picks:

http://coldthistle.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/petzl-picks-again.html

That said all of the above holds in terms of placing rather than always swinging - especially when on really hard, cold ice

In reply to mutt:

Pick weights definitely improve the swing with Petzls...

Aiming for the natural weaknesses in the ice and using the hammers to firm up placements definitely helps...

Dinner-plating ice is also a fact of life though if temperatures have dropped rapidly. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and be disciplined enough to make sure nothing less than solid sticks every time. Even if that means clearing suspicious ice. Personally speaking, I've actually found brittle ice very good for the technique because it demands good maintenance of body tension and shape.

In reply to mutt:

-17 generally is on the edge of ice climbing being fun, the ice often gets scary around then but you say others were doing fine, so I suspect it's your swing more than anything else.

In reply to planetmarshall:


I reckon three axes is a pretty common number among winter hillgoers: two climbing tools and a walking axe, no?

In reply to Tricadam:


Although that's not many if you take it seriously.

I wrote this post yesterday https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=676138&v=1#x8697788 about my first ice hammer, and was trying to remember who I sold it on to. I've bought and sold a number of ice tools down the years and I did think what happens to all those old tools. I guess they are just sitting dusty and unloved in attics and cellars up and down the country. It seems a bit sad.