UKC

I don't know how to cook curries at all, and I want to cook a slow-cooked beef or lamb curry for tonight. When I look at recipes, they all sound horribly wrong to me. They involve things like covering the raw meat in yoghurt and then putting that, cold, into a simmering sauce. The image that this conjurs in my head is not something I want for dinner. This runs against all my instincts, which would tell me to sear the meat with spices, put that into a simmering sauce for a few hours, and add yoghurt just before serving.

Are there any basic principles about cooking curries with tomatoes, slow-cooked meat and yoghurt that I should go with?

I'm not interested in time-consuming, fancy recipes that I'd make for a dinner party. I'm talking about food for dinner after getting in from training at the wall. Simple, tasty and nutritious, requiring a bit of prep and then leaving in the slow cooker for a few hours.

Cheers!

Hot oil. Throw in your cumin seeds and wait till they darken. Blend the onions and cook with the lid on until dark golden brown. Add blended green chilles and ginger/garlic as required and fry off for a couple of minutes. Add meat at this point (if using) which may or may not have been marinated in yogurt/spice mix. Cook off till the oil seperates (you are not really getting a sear like in western cooking though). Add tomatoes (canned and blended in my opinion)  and water as necessary. Add dry spices at this point and cook for as long as needed.

This is basis for many tomato based curries. Cooking at each stage until the oil separates is the key in my opinion. And go easy on the yogurt - you don't need much.

What's great about curries is that there's no much chopping to be done if you have a food processor.

For beef I always veer towards coconut milk based Asian curries e.g. Penang, Massaman, Rendang but they are more faff and difficult to source ingredients for. Definitely no browning for these.

I'm no cook but it seems to me that curry evolved as a way of covering the taste of meat that was past its best before refrigeration. It also seems that you are not going to get the spices to infuse the meat by searing it and caramelising the outside, which is done in western meat cooking to seal in the moisture. One of the most delicious spicy recipes I ever tasted called for chicken to be scored so as to open it up then splashed with lemon juice, salt, curry sauce and yoghurt, left for a few hours then baked in the marinade. It had a tart spiciness that really set the taste buds tingling. In essence I think Indian cooking is all about getting the spices to penetrate the meat and the additives like yoghurt and lemon juice to tenderise it. 

Ta, really helpful. Guess I need to get used to doing wrong things like cooking onions til they're brown. 

Are you taking the piss - you should always cook onions right down, at least until translucent/golden (20 mins minimum). Undercooked onions are a cardinal sin in any form of cooking!

I have cooked one or two recipes that go like this.  The recipes never sound appetising and often they don't look that promising during the cooking process - however there are one or two curries of this style that have become my favourites so I would encourage you to give it a go even if you never do it again.

What?!?! You make a risotto with burnt onions??? Christ on a motorbike.

No but you better be sure there properly sweated off before you add any stock.

I will be sure.

Not all curries cook onions till brown but quite a few do. It forms the base thickness of the sauce. Some tips: absolutely make sure you fry off any dry spices before adding any liquid. But burning them is a irreversible mistake (start again if you do). Burning garlic is equally as bad. Yogurt in curries can split and look like curdelled milk which is edible but an epic fail. Use only full fat yogurt and add in stages to the pan with no liquid (after the dry spices  go in). Sizzle it spoon by spoon and mix it in slowly and it should not split. 

Marnanating meat in spices and yogurt is a really good technique but normally needs to be over night. A tikka whole lamb leg is spectacular when done like this and then cooked over coal.  The yogurt is meant to tenderise the meat but not sure how true that is. 

Anyway besides all this the very best slow cooked beef curry IMO is Malaysian beef Rendang and whilst having lots of ingredients is pretty fool proof. You don't do any spice frying or owt like that. Put that in the slow cooker all day and I promise you it will be one of the best curries you ever tasted. Will whatzapp you the recipe. 

Your using a pretty low heat if it takes you 20min to sweat down onions...

I hate to be "that guy", but these two statements are quite incorrect. We sear the outside of meat before braising (in some recipes) to get the delicious flavours from the maillard reaction and it in no way "seals in" the juices, and there is no reason to believe that people used spices other than because they taste quite nice.

That said, marinating meat in oils or vinegars can help to prolong the life of your meat.

You seem to be saying this with an accusatory tone... what on earth is wrong with taking the time to get a good product?
 

Try thinly slicing five or six kilos of onion, tossing them in rendered bacon fat or dripping from a roast dinner, sealing them in a crockpot or Dutch oven, and leaving them at the bottom of a very low oven for three or four hours... THEN use those in the right recipe. Onion soup, onion gravy, the base for certain curries or stews... mixed with grated cheese for a cheese on toast...

There's nothing wrong with patience.

Agreed. Onions as the basis for a curry is 20mins minimum if you ask me. 

It was in response to this:

That's how I do it, just don't seer the meat as you would a steak or beef strips, lower heat, not so brown.

I like to marinate chicken in yogurt and spices for a day but then I do it in the oven and serve it separately.

Generally - not always, but usually - don't use yoghurt if you're using tomatoes, they tend not to play well together.  

But for a weekday, slow-cooked curry don't bother with spices and similar malarkey.  Get a jar of whichever Pataks paste appeals (the paste, not the runnier sauce), follow the instructions on the back until you get to the 'simmer' stage, bung it in the slow cooker and later on, Bob's your bream.

If you want an alternative that doesn't involve the slow cooker but still doesn't have you following the whole recipe from scratch yourself, pick up one of the Spice Tailor packets.  The instructions are simple, the spices you need are there and they don't take too long to knock together; good stuff for a midweek evening.

I say all this as a curry fan who likes the whole process of doing it himself from scratch; but things like Pataks pastes and Spice Tailor packets exist for a reason and I'm happy to use either when it's appropriate.

T.

One of my favourite recipes is Meat Dilruba from Mridula Baljeka's: Complete Indian Cookbook.  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Indian-Cookbook-M-Baljekar/dp/0862838029 The lamb  is marinated in ginger/garlic/turmeric then simmered for an hour. After that it is fried in a spice mix, coconut is then added and the liquid returned to the pan.

Great tips, ta. Although the tikka marinade would only serve to exacerbate the problems inherent in bbqing legs of lamb in my flat.

Your method sounds spot on, though for slow cooking braising beef or shin, doesn't matter too much what you do to the onions (i.e. no need to blend them) as it will all cook down,/ So tend to treat it like making a tomato based stew,  including searing the meat for flavour.

Two things I am not so sure of

Yogurt in a tomato-based, slow-cooked curry? As a garnish for something spicy perhaps, and yes for marinating before the tandoor, but necessary for beef or lamb cooked this this way.

Not frying off ground spices. I  thought it was proper to cook these off a bit in oil, but without burning. 

This is what we done

BEEF & SPINACH CURRY, Serves 5

INGREDIENTS Smear of olive oil + 1½ lb diced [stewing] beef + 2 large onions, chopped + 2 cloves crushed garlic + 3 tbsp curry powder + 1 tsp dried ginger + 150 ml chicken stock + 1 tin chopped tomatoes (14 oz) + 175 gm (6 oz) frozen spinach + Salt & pepper. METHOD *Fry onions + garlic till soft (10 minutes) *stir in curry powder + ginger. Cook for 1 minute *add meat and brown it *stir in tomatoes, stock, spinach, and seasoning *bring to boil *cover and simmer for 1½ hours. Stir occasionally *remove lid and simmer for a further 30 minutes (till it thickens). Stir occasionally

I do a lamb and spinach curry with a dry marinade, no tomatoes and yogurt added once the meat is sealed.

Mix lamb pieces, leg or shoulder (shoulder is probably better) with ginger, garlic, cayenne, coriander and turmeric. Leave for at least half an hour.

Slice loads of onion in to fine rings and fry until brown. Remove from the pan and seal the lamb in the pan, turn the heat down and slowly add a few table spoons of yogurt letting it absorb, plus a little salt and sugar. Add the onions and loads of spinach and cook low for about an hour and a half, testing and seasoning as you go. Add a splash of water as you go if it starts to look a little dry.

just noticed the slow cooker reference. Should be fine, just add a little water at the spinach and onions stage and leave.

Bear in mind a lot of slow cooked Indian recipes end up with the sauce really reduced and clinging to the meat, so the yoghurt splitting will be less of a problem (and less likely at slow cooker temps). Look for Dum Gosht recipes for a really good slow cooked lamb dish.

This is a great thread, I'll get it moved out of the pub to save it forever.

I haven’t cooked a curry for a while however I would say lamb (over beef) and spinach make an ideal combo. Know this is not strictly answering your query but it’s just got me thinking about curries. 

Not a big fan of spinach in curries, much prefer adding chickpeas.

Nice one, two more here ...

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/off_belay/authentic_curry-677124

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/off_belay/how_to_make_restaurant_grade_cu...

Lots of reading and experimentation to be done!

Yep, with you on that one. Was going to mention chickpeas too. Sometime ago, I made a chickpea and date curry. Pretty good and nicer than it sounds! 

The point in marinading the meat in yoghurt is that the acid breaks down the meat. Simple Rogan Josh done well is one of my favourite curries. 

It's seems odd that for someone who hasn't cooked curry, they would chose to ignore a perfectly normal, well practised method because it sounded odd??

You can do it the wrong way round if you want, but why not, in the spirit of adventure, try the recommended way?

 Not curry, but I’ve found marinading turkey chunks in yogurt and spices and then barbecuing it works well.  

Yes I was rather assuming any e.g. coriander seeds, cardamom etc. would be toasted in a pan before grinding and adding at the same point as powdered spices like chilli powder and turmeric. I tend to do batches of dry on a biweekly sort of schedule so it's stays fresh but is ready to deploy rapidly.

Sounded weird to me so I was looking for corroboration and reassurance that it's a good technique without pitfalls. Recipe books are often full of crap - for example I've seen a Delia Smith recipe for gratin which advises you to eat potatoes after leaving them in a low oven for 45mins. That would be called raw potatoes and cream, and isn't a dish I wish to eat.

More than following recipes, I'm into learning principles (e.g. marinating in yoghurt to tenderise meat) so I can cook with whatever comes to hand. Hence the thread.

Does it still sound like an odd question, or are you satisfied with my justification?

I forgot the most obvious of advice earlier, get some Ghee. The king of cooking fats. Smells like heaven  

And a electric spice grinder so you can always use whole spices. Life is too short for a pestle and mortar as much a I love mine. And some of them airtight boxes so you can go to the Asian supermarket and get everything you need and store it properly. You then have a spice store to make whatever you want. 

Yeah, the one I made tonight was a decent meal, but it wasn't hugely tasty. Lamb and spinach, plenty of fresh spices plus paste from a jar. Worked fine cooking the yoghurt at the meat-in stage, which went into a base which had had some water added and then boiled off again before adding the fluid later (I thought this was weird, but I guess it's to integrate all the flavours?). 

Used groundnut oil, which obviously tastes of nowt but it seemed to cook things properly. I wondered if butter (in place of ghee) should be added at any stage, but with lamb that seemed totally unnecessary. 

Will defo try the Rendang one some time.

I think steer clear of ghee and butter for meat based curry, too rich especially with lamb. A big lump of butter in at the end makes all the difference for veggie curries like Aloo Gobi though which unfortunately I spend most of time making being the only meat eater in the house...

Last 'tomatoey' curry I made from scratch I marinated the raw lamb in yogurt / turmeric / chili overnight.  Once the curry base, spices and 'tomatoey' gravy had been brought to simmer point, the meat mixture was simply added to it and the whole lot stuck in the oven for a few hours.  Absolutely brilliant flavour and texture at the end.

So long and short of it: I think yogurt can work well in tomato curry.

Except in a stirfry when you expect them to still have a crispness.

If you want a really excellent slow cooked beef curry (i.e. you're prepared to leave it in your oven overnight) just: brown small "cubes" of beef in a big pan (inauthentic alert - I use olive oil, but to me it tastes better than vegetable oil), add chopped onions and a *lot* of garlic, then spices to taste -  I suggest a level dessert spoon of garam masala, then a teaspoon of coriander, maybe a little cumin, and a teaspoon or so of chili powder (plus some fresh chilis if you like). Use blended *fresh* tomatoes to cover, not tinned! Add some water, salt to taste  and you can add some (new) potatoes at this point if you like. Stick in the oven at 105 (sic) and leave overnight. Wake up next morning to the smell of a delicious curry, resist the temptation to eat it for breakfast and instead leave it to chill for consumption later that evening.

I can guarantee that (other than the olive oil) this is a totally authentic recipe, as Mrs Nic is Indian and this is direct from the mother-in-law!

Sounds great, does the mother in law have any other recipes you can share?

Funnily enough, this is very similar to a recipe a curry house in Brum shared on the Beebs food and drink show(a long time ago now).

That's a slow curry, here's a really fast one for fish (I make it with fresh salmon, but it works with other chunky fish fillets)

Slice (not chop) some onions and garlic, and fresh chilis if you like, fry for 5 minutes just to soften a little. Add to roasting pan. Cube your fish (enough for 3 to 4 people, I usually use 3 of those "two fillet" packets you get in supermarkets), add to same pan. Chop some tomatoes into sixths, add. Add a level dessertspoon of turmeric, a level teaspoon of chili powder, and some salt. Liberally dose with olive oil, and add some liquid (water, though I cheekily get good results with white wine, haram I know...). Mix together with a wooden spoon till all the ingredients are coated with the spice mixture. Cover with foil and in a hot oven (180) for 20 minutes - one delicious fish curry!

Old thread resurrection...  No, now you put it like that it makes a lot more sense. I went through a oeriod of ruining every gratin I made - watery and split, yet not fully cooked.  Realised I was using too much low fat liquid!  More full fat cream, no milk. 

I decided to take your advice and bought a jar of ghee. It has a very long use-by date on it but no indication of how long it will keep once opened. Can you give me an idea please?

Should keep for 2+ years at room temp. 

I don't deny that there are some strange things in recipe books but in defence of Delia Smith (not that she needs it) I do enjoy her recipe for gratin as an occasional self-indulgence.  It's a very long way from 'raw potatoes and cream' - but then the Delia recipe I use recommends 90 minutes in the oven, not 45.  Perhaps if you tried that you might not be so waspish ...