UKC

I've not been coming here for a while, but since returning I am experiencing some very annoying problems.

I have an iMac (OSX 10.7), which is totally up-to-date with software updates.

I have noticed that things have changed, especially how we now post, which is a big improvement. However, I have lost all the site links under the banner, what used to be things like "Home" "Photos" "Search" etc. I have also lost the forum navugation bar and now have a drop-bown menu instead. The arrows for going to the top & bottom of a thread have also stopped working. Also, on certain thread I keep getting "Login to reply" boxes instead of just "Reply" although I am still logged in, meaning that I can't reply to the thread.

Most annoyingly, I have lost the login boxes and to log in I must google UKC login.

Is anyone else experiencing these difficulties and is there anything I can do about it?

Cheers, H.

Edit: Oh yeah, advertising banners now seem a bit all over the shop too.

My home PC is an iMac, so have just checked & its running OSX 10.13.2 (mac OS High Sierra) - so maybe your OS is a bit dated, but, and I suspect more likely, maybe its more a problem with your browser ?

Thanks Doug, I suspected that might be the case. I'm using Safari, I'll try Google Chrome.

I've noticed that there are other things I can no longer do online. Though my Mac has an Intel processor (why oh why did they stop using their own?) there are things that just won't update. "Perhaps", it's Apple's way to make you buy a new one?

If you are using Safari as your browser then that won’t work. Mac OS 10.7 is from 2011 and we aren’t able to support that old a version of Safari. You might find that Chrome or Firefox still work. I would advise updating your Mac OS system if possible though. Something that old could well have security holes. Even if your Mac is a bit old, it should still take a more up-to-date system that is more likely to work.

Alan

Thanks Alan, my Mac is totally up-to-date so it's not that. OS systems above 10.7 require too much memory (8Gb - I have 4Gb) and will seriously slow down my computer to the point of making it almost useless.

I'll try GC.

Still the same on Google Chrome.

I think Alan’s suggestion makes sense. How old is your iMac? I’ve been running Sierra (10.12) on a Mac Mini from 2010-ish without problems, and I seem to remember from when I installed it that it was ok on desktops going back to 2009. You may find getting a bit more RAM  useful but not essential. 

I don’t think that 8 gB is necessary for Sierra but check the requirements .

[Edit] It occurs to me you may be confusing the requirement for 8 gig of storage with RAM. Just checked... requires 2 gig of RAM

Firefox is no longer support before OSX10.9

Thanks Bob, but every time I've researched upgrading the OS there have been plenty of articles telling me not to.

Edit: As Alan says, OSX10.7 is 2011

i don’t remember anything that put me off when I upgraded  or I wouldn’t have bothered. As I say, it works fine for me. iIn any case there are still quite a few newer versions that might work for you. 

if you are using OSX 10.7 its not up to date. Just checked my laptop (a MacBookAir) - its running OSX 10.13.2 (the latest version as far as I know) with 4 Gb of memory and runs fine

I recently moved to my new lab and dusted off an old computer to bridge the time until I get around to ordering all the shiny new kit.

I am therefore typing this from a 2009 iMac running High Sierra, it actually feels a bit quicker than before the OS update.

In fact, the whole computer zoo that my predecessor bought 8 years or so ago still runs so well that I might as well stick with the old stuff for a bit longer, and buy some more lab equipment first.

That aside the new Firefox for Mac OS ist still terrible bloatware and prone to freezing. I use Opera as a slightly more configurable and less data leaky version of Chrome, so far no problems at all.

CB

If I upgrade will I lose all my music / photos / files etc?

No, but do a back up before upgrading 'just in case'

It appear I can install OSX10.13 High Sierra!

Does anyone know what's the best way to back up so that I can reboot OSX10.7 if it goes horribly wrong?

Sorry if this all sounds basic stuff, but I'm of a certain age.

simplest is to use 'Time Machine' (see your applications folder) & an external hard disk. Very simple.

Thanks Doug and everyone, I'll give it a go.

One last question. I have a hard drive with stuff on it, will I still be able to access these files if I use Time Machine?

I expect your photos will all be there but you will not have them in albums.

Man that could be a lot of sorting! 4K+ photos and 10K+ songs!

They should be entirely separate so Time Machine won’t overwrite them. But you need to make sure there is enough space for the Time Machine backup. The other thing to consider doing is a separate clone of your Mac, or at least a copy  of your important data: I follow Jack Schofield’s ‘Law’ that your digital data doesn’t really exist unless there are at least three copies of it. 

Can’t remember about photos but I seem to recall that iTunes copies file structures over okay. (I had a problem getting playlists to work on my NAS but that’s all.)

Thanks Bob, Schofield's Law sounds like very good advice.

Songs should be fine because you will still have iTunes, but iPhoto is now a different set up called photos.

Sounds like you are already there but just FYI I have an old Macbook Pro (early 2011) running Sierra 10.12.6 OK, and the UKC site is fine on Safari.

Yeah, it's about time to take the plunge. It's not just UKC, there are also apps that I can't use. Thanks for the reassurance.

As others have suggested, back up your data to an external drive, and if worst comes to worst clean install to your old OS using the installation disc that will have come with your machine.

For the most sensitive data I would not use time machine, but a straight backup to another drive, as I recently had some problems with the time machine compression messing up a few files (lost metadata).

You may also have to perform serial upgrades with older OSX versions until you have arrived at a version that will update to the current one.

Finally, I just checked and my computer currently runs just fine with 4GB RAM, although I will probably cannibalize one of the other computers sitting in the cupboard to have some more RAM in hand for a few specific applications (mapping of sequencing reads to genomes....).

CB

Just to add to the mix of opinions. I would not upgrade this machine to high Sierra (10.13). I would stick to 10.12.6 - it will be supported for a while and is likely to be much more usable on a HDD iMac. 

10.7 was not a particularly good version of Mac OSX so I am surprised that you had not upgraded before. Until the recent worries about more definitive ways of hacking a Mac 10.9.5 would have been a good choice for this machine, based on the machines resources. If you specify the exact model name (e.g. MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2017) I will have a look at the resources we have here for any more information. 

If you are a Microsoft Office user these OS changes are likely to force you to upgrade that as well as many other third party applications.

That’s maybe also useful advice for me. Been wondering about the next upgrade and holding off.

Some quality advice coming my way here, thanks to all.

Right my Mac:

iMac 27" mid 2011

Processor: 2.7GHz Intel Core iS

Memory 4 GB 1333MHz DDR3

Graphics: AMD Radeon HD 6770M 512MB

Serial Number: not sure if this is safe to release!

Software: Mac OS X 10.7.5 (11G63b)

Re your spec - that looks like it should handle Sierra fine. As SouthernSteve says, there may be a requirement to upgrade to an earlier system first anyway, so you could try one (e.g Yosemite) and see how that performs first.

It appears that it isn't mac that is the problem - it looks like UKC is borked for any browser based on the webkit layout engine - this includes safari and the non safari browers I'm using (which work fine for the rest of the web but looks bloody awful for UKC). Plus this embedded "editor" is a shambles compared with the previous one.

Your computer is on the list for High Sierra so that is not a technical problem (I would still stick to Sierra) and you could upgrade your RAM to 8GB or 16GB without too much technical knowledge. With a decent amount of RAM you should not be flogging your older and slower disk for virtual memory and see a speed increase. 8GB (2 x 4GB) will cost about £80 from Kingston.

If you have a spare external disk you can protect your current situation by making a clone - Carbon Copy Cloner is the application of choice to do this which you can then boot up in the future if you need the previous system or copy back if its a complete disaster (unlikely). With the age of you computer and your photo and music assets, you should probably do this anyway.

You can re-import your iTunes library into the new system from this disk with few problems. However, Apple have done a lot with their photography apps over the last few years.  iPhoto will not universally upgrade from previous versions and iPhoto has now been discontinued in favour of Photos. Aperture still works (just about), but is unsupported. Third party applications such as Lightroom do not have good import systems from either iPhoto or Aperture. 

Big upgrades like this are a real pain and living in an environment where there is access to multiple computers from OS9 to High Sierra I usually have access to bits that I want, but still get caught out having to fiddle.  

HTH you enjoy UKC again! S

P.S. You could always buy a new one

Apple makes it inordinately difficult to download installers for older OS X versions than "the latest and greatest"

I would be inclined to try going to Sierra before trying High Sierra.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208202

High Sierra changes the disk management system, for a start. The machine I am typing this on at the moment is: iMac (21.5-inch, Mid 2011) and this runs Sierra fine. And nagged me about HighSierra incessantly until I took steps to stop it....

Safari is a problem on some websites (but not UKC for me). 

*It used to be that Microsoft was the poster child for "doing things differently" but Apple have now become big enough that they pretty much ignore what the rest of the world are doing. 

Edit to add : * perhaps it was ever thus...

Thanks for the great advice Steve.

Re: buying a new one. I just can't afford the £1749 price tag for a similar spec.

UKC looks fine one every version of Safari here! MacOSX and iOS.

So are you saying I could have an equivalent of an iMac with Sierra (obviously without the Retina display) for around £80?

Edit: and obviously a bit of work.

OK. I'll follow yours and Steve's advice and stop at Sierra.

Man, this is starting hack me off. I can see that I have a reply on a thread, but when I open it I can only see posts up to 2 hours ago, when I have posted and seen replies since!

Arrrrrggggghhhhhhhh !!!!!

i don’t think they deliberately make it difficult - it’s just that some of the older ones are only available as traditional paid products, as they were originally.  I think you even get a disk with some of them!

Your iMac accepts up to 32Gb RAM (memory) - it is also cheap, and easy, to replace. You don't need 32Gb... 8Gb would be fine, 16Gb would be even better. Crucial.com/uk will sell you some - this link is the right one for your machine uk.crucial.com/gbr/en/compatible-upgrade-for/Apple/imac-%2821*5-and-27-inch%2C-mid-2011%29-imac12%2C1-12%2C2

This is how to replace the RAM: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+Intel+27-Inch+EMC+2429+RAM+Replacement/75...

Takes several minutes. Difficult to get wrong. If you can use a screwdriver and have opposable thumbs you will be fine... You could keep one of the two 2Gb modules you already have and replace the other with 4Gb (i.e. total 6Gb) for 40 quid, or an 8Gb chip (i.e. 10Gb total) for 67 quid. The chips don't need to match. 

The other thing you could get someone else to do is replace the hard drive with an SSD. This will make your 7 year old iMac comparable to current models in terms of day-to-day speed of response. It feels very much like a new Mac, but very large SSDs are expensive still so 1Tb would be 250-300 quid plus labour.

I have swapped HDDs for SSDs in a variety of iMacs, some are easier than others and your model is on my list of 'pay someone else to do it' models. But for 400 quid you could effectively have a "new" iMac...

If it were me I'd go for an extra 8Gb RAM and save up for an SSD.... but Sierra will run fine either way. OSX 10.7 Lion has not been updated since December 2012 and is totally unsupported for security updates - I would definitely update it.

b

Thanks Ben, I'll look into it but have a very small budget.

No problem. In terms of bang-for-buck if you can run to an 8Gb stick at 67 quid that's probably the best way forward.

Good luck

b

My iPad (5 yrs old) has similar problems. No way of signing in or navigating round the site

Maddening isn't it. I guess you've worked out that you can get to different sections using Google / browser of choice.

Edit: I can't imagine that you could get around this by some of the methods above with an iPad. Hopefully some of the techy types on here will have a solution for you.

I am on 7.0.4, which I know is several versions out of date but until now have had no need to update. When it comes to these things I update as seldom as possible since updates always seem to spell trouble. (This desk top machine still runs Vista)

I'm on 10.12.6 Sierra and it seems the most stable I've ever had, in fact 100% reliable. UKC working just fine on it too. System 7 I remember as being rather poor/troublesome.

I suspect you are muddling two or more operating systems - System 7 was the Mac/Apple OS back in the early 90s (not checked exact date), long replaced by OS X. But System 7 & OS X are for desktop & laptop computers and the OS for Apple telephones & tablets is different - its iOS with iOS 7 dating to circa 2013 (latest is iOS11)

Sohow do I update it? I have auto updates switched on but that may only install iOS7 updates rather than an entirely now OS

Oh, yes of course. 10.7 was still of course, System 10. Anyhow, my point is that I've updated the OS at regular intervals (usually about a year after each upgrade has come out, and been tried and tested), and have never had any real problems (since years ago with that very flawed System 7). All seems to be working flawlessly, and very fast, at the moment. Touch wood.

i recall Vista as being not so good.  IM on Win10 and think its rather ok