UKC

OK, I sort of know - but as you see references to both toe bails and heel bails, I was wondering if one was correct and the other not? Or is it possible for both to be "bails"?

A quick Google of the word origin didn't come up with anything useful, although the OED website does mention its use in reference to a crampon, but annoyingly doesn't have anything to say on which part of the binding is the bail. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/bail

It seems the word can be a bar in a stable, something to hold a cow in place for milking, in addition of course to the legal/money-, cricket-, sinking ship- or non-flying plane- senses of the word, but does anyone know how it came to be connected to crampons and, indeed, which bit of the crampon binding it should be applied to?

In reply to TobyA:

I would say that the bail (bale?) is the loop of wire that engages the welt on a boot, or possibly the combination of wire and welt.

So more traditional bindings might have both heel and toe bails, with just a heel bail on the New-matic binding.

Edit - spelling

In reply to TobyA:  Generally Id say its Toe Bail for the front, Heel lever for the rear

What Petzl say....

https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/News/2017-11-17/Understanding-the-parts-o...

BD seem to agree with that nomenclature as well

 

In reply to TobyA:

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/bail

has reference to a metal hoop (wagons, kettles, buckets ... a pail bail

as  well as for securing

In reply to leon 1:

True - but Petzl also make (made?) the Dart sidelock which could be said to have a front and a rear bail

In reply to leon 1:

Reading the Petzl page, they use bail for both toe and heel bits! Jolly confusing isn't it?

In reply to TobyA:

Didn't some of the old fashioned strap on crampons actually have a rear bail bar, I'm pretty sure I've seen this in pics

In reply to TobyA: They're French what do they know ?   

Actually what do they call the front and rear sections in the French instructions ? Do they use the same word for both ?

 

 

In reply to CurlyStevo: You mean like these Salewas ?

https://bonnes-mares.smugmug.com/VintageAlpineAdventures/Molitors-and-Galib...

In reply to leon 1:

Yeah thats the sort of thing

 

In reply to TobyA:

A bail is (among other things) a semi-circular handle, which makes it an appropriate term for the front binding, but not really for the rear.  For the rear, a term such as 'clip binding' or 'lever binding' might be more suitable.  

In reply to TobyA:

Have a look at a fixed spool fishing reel, the line winder is called the bail arm. It’s nothing like an arm but is a curved bit of wire very similar to a crampon bail.