UKC

Hi all,

Off to Scotland for a couple of weeks.

Mostly looking at grade IIs, but may aim for grade III by the end of the trip if all goes well, including potentially some of the gullies. E.g. Left Twin on Aonach Mor.

We have a 50m single rope and six ice screws. (2 each of 22cm, 17cm, and 13cm.) I think that will do for the grade IIs.

But would that be enough moving up to grade III?

I'm wondering whether to get a pair of 60m half ropes and a couple extra screws. I'm a bit loathe to do so as we may not even get on IIIs this trip.

Grade III buttresses/ridges I think would be fine, as I'd be expecting to potentially move together on a lot of it with shorter pitches.

But what's the gut feel on 50m rope and small rack of screws for grade III gullies? 

Interested in all opinions, especially those who have done/attempted similar routes with similar gear.

Cheers,

Michael

That should be fine. 

It should be enough screws, you will be on snow as much as ice.

Double 60s is ideal, but a single 50 will do the job and be lighter 

Although not essential there are plenty of times when I've appreciated the extra ten metres of rope of a sixty in winter. I climb those grades and have never seen the point of double ropes in winter at the grades other than once this season on a traversy very technical route in lean conditions    

I agree a 60m single with a good selection of extenders ought to do the job but you'll be a long time abbing off on the odd occasion that's required.

Probably worth it for the lighter weight though

Thanks Dan

Thanks. I was wondering about the length. Might just wing it with the 50m given that we are likely to be only on a couple of IIIs max this trip.

Or grab a thin triple rated 60m now and partner it with a half rope later as needed...

Cheers. The ab distance is in the back of my mind as well. Though whether I'd carry a second rope solely for that eventuality (if it's not needed on the climb) I'm not sure.

Instead of buying two half ropes, you could just buy a tagline. Single ropes stretch around 10 percent under 80 kg load, so you would want 55m of 6mm accessory cord for the tagline.

One way to abseil with a tagline and a climbing rope: connect the ropes with an overhand knot, clove hitch a locker to the fat rope. Install the thin rope, the knots and the locker on one side of the anchor ring, and the fat rope on the other. Abseil on the fat rope and pull on the thin rope.

Thanks Stefan. I have read a bit about taglines, although not used one.

Rather than getting more gear I'd just choose your routes carefully and you'll be fine with what you've got, there are lots of short pitch ice routes and go for routes with rock belays where you can (6 ice screws means 2 per pitch if you're on ice belays). There seems to be a lot in good condition at the moment so you should have plenty choice, not sure if Udlaidh is still in condition but the routes are short there I believe (although I've never been). Tower Scoop on the Ben is short. If you do fancy spending some cash and you want to climb ice then a couple of extra ice scews wouldn't go a miss but there's plenty to go at if not.

Careful with who you choose to move together with, especially if you're doing it at the top of your grade. I've passed people moving together while I've been pitching before, it's only faster if you're fast to start with. It seems to be in vogue but there is more risk to manage and more at stake if you mess up. The better you are at route finding, climbing confidently at a grade with minimal gear and setting up quick belays the more it becomes useful. I personally wouldn't move together with anyone I don't know well and I've seen some pretty stomach churning "moving together" before on routes which should really only take 2 or 3 hours to pitch.

https://rockrun.com/products/edelweiss-rocklight-ii-9-8mm-50m?utm_source=Go...

https://www.trekkinn.com/outdoor-mountain/black-diamond-turbo-ice-screw-19-...

If you feel you're stuck I have some stuff you can borrow for a day or two.

Thanks Ben. I'm never averse to picking up more gear, but it can wait if we can get by with what we have.

Re: moving together. Understood and good points. There seems to be quite a lot of variation in what people mean by "moving together". I am speaking in the sense of ridges (not so much gullies), taking chest coils with runners/looping rope around over any lengths of easier ground, but still pitching harder or more exposed sections. In that sense, the potential for long and wandering rocky pitches (and hence need for double ropes) may be reduced.

We got some training on this from a guide last year in the alps, so we know the theory, and will be looking to practice it on some of the grade II ridges initially on the trip. 

Don't think we'd look to move together in the gullies.

You raise a good point that you can still move pretty quick by just deciding to pitch the lot of it and focus on making that efficient. 

Needless to say, if we are slow on the IIs then we won't be going on the IIIs

Totally agree. 

If you are quick at locating anchors etc.. then doing 60m instead of 50m up a longer route like south post might save you a few pitches by the end of the day. But for stuff in the norries, any advantage in pushing a few metres beyond the normal stance is lost in time kicking or digging out a little shelf and then scratching around for gear in places no one else has looked for weeks through masses of snow. 

Hi Rich, thanks for the links - good prices for those screws!

Thanks as well for the offer to loan gear, that's very kind of you. I am in a position to purchase our own extra kit if we need it - more about whether it's necessary this time around.

At the moment I'm thinking that we'll be able to get by with what we have, especially as we may not even end up on the harder routes this trip.

Thank you very much, I really appreciate it.