UKC

Hey,

So I have set a goal of the montane spine challenge, with a possible date for Jan 2019, but can push out to 2020 if I need more prep time.

Can anyone think of some good races I could take on in my lead up the Spine Challenge to get experience for the race.

My weak points:

* Navigation / Map Reading.

* Yet to run 100 miles

Stronger points:

* Quite a bit of cold weather experience and kit.

* Do a lot of Hill Hiking (Brecon).

I completed the 2018 Winter Fan Dance in the load bearing category and did well for position / time. Not saying like for like, but I trained hard and was happy with how I did in some tough conditions this year (-7 with some blizzards / gale force winds).

For the orienteering, I plan to shell out and do a course and lots of home study.

For the lack of distance, I am happy to build mileage leading up, and I have my first ultra (50k) coming up in June. I run a lot I would say, average 30-40 miles a week (did a 20 mile long run today) and I am part of local running club, so train with them doing different sessions. I am capable of taking a training plan on and knocking out the miles each week and then tapering off towards race day.

What do you believe would be some good stepping stone races likely to put some pressure on me with bad weather and similar elevation and is Jan 2019 unrealistic (hard to say as you don't know me, so I don't expect definite answers here)?

One last point, I have no mates , or at least none that would want to sit in a car waiting for me. How did people find people willing to crew them? At the moment the only plan is drop our kids off at my sisters and have my misus crew me.

Cheers!

Can't answer your main question - way outside my experience - but having watched the dots this year I think they didn't allow any support this year. So no "crew", your missus is off the hook.

Only you can tell if you should go for it in 2019. Sounds feasible to me though. 

I'm tempted to do it in 2019 except that I have a rather different long range challenge coming up in 2019.

Some general thoughts:

- it's not crew supported. you carry your kit and eat at the controls. Be useful to be used to running with a reasonable amount of kit I imagine.

- I personally wouldn't worry about running anywhere close to 100 miles beforehand. a 60 mile ultra would give you plenty of confidence - something like UTPD in August. Dusk till dawn in October is good as well (50ish miles) and on similar terrain. Maybe even Fellsman next year but that rules out 2019.

- It's not orienteering so I'm not sure how that would help. Personally I'd recce it all (which is the best training as well). Memorise the route and follow the map. Depends how unconfident you really are in navigating. I mostly use my phone for nav.

- hard and long fell races in similar terrain would help a lot - three peaks, Edale-marsden, most of the Lakes classics (particularly Langdale, killer), Kinder trog etc. Edale skyline. Again you've missed some of these for 2018. Scafell or Snowdon trail Marathon...

- rather than weekly mileage I'd be more concerned with really long days out on your feet. No better way to do that than recce'ing the route. If you think about it you can break the southern part of the PW into 20 mile chunks and do most of it over two weekends. I think you can even do it by rail.

What about the Tour de Helvellyn (late Dec)?

Also the Montane Cheviot Goat (also a December race) - sounds like similar levels of misery/suffering/mud/bleakness.

A GPS is mandatory kit so I guess that orienteering skills are not needed. From watching the dots this year it seems that buddying up goes on too.

UKC poster wonrek did it this year and inspired a lot of us armchair punters. For best advice pm her.

My husband did the challenger in 2017 and I'm sure he'd be happy to answer any questions. As Pasbury said, Wonrek's done the 'fun run' (her words!) and the full Spine. Another poster called Rob has also done the challenger. 

For what it's worth, my husband did very little training, can be a bit navigationally challenged (by his own admission) but still managed to do it in around 41 hours. It wasn't that cold, though, just very very muddy. His key thing seemed to be making sure he had fresh socks and trainers when possible (obviously the potential for these things is reduced with the support aspect being removed, but you still have a drop bag at Hebden Bridge (and is there also one at Malham? Can't remember))

I've done the Challenger and have been on the safety team a few times. It's a great race!

The others are right that as of the 2018 event, support crew are no longer allowed. You carry all of your own gear, water and food and there's an opportunity to access your drop bag to resupply at checkpoint one (that's at Hebden Bridge about 45 miles in).

Apart from a generally good level of fitness and navigation ability, I think that the main thing that you need to prepare for is to be able to cope with being out in bad weather for very long periods of time, potentially completely on your own. The field can get quite spread out, so if you are not prepared for the isolation the hours can feel very long, especially at night. It is also worth remembering that it'll be dark most of the time - you'll only get about 24 hours of daylight in the 60 hours allowed to complete. 

Something that does seem to catch some faster folk out is the expectation that they'll be able to run most of it. The weight of the compulsory kit, underfoot conditions and terrain mean that for most people there is a lot of walking and that can be hard to adapt to if you're used to moving quickly.

Edale Skyline

High Peak Marathon (find a team)

Marsden to Edale

For a 100 I don't see the need to race 100 but lots of big days out in those conditions, especially the HPM which is a great event. Then things like the Hardmoors 55 and the like.

My worry would be you've missed a winter to prepare.. I'd look at 2020 unless you have more experience.

Thanks all, so many great replies, so I am very tempted to go for it now.

Stig:

- it's not crew supported. you carry your kit and eat at the controls. Be useful to be used to running with a reasonable amount of kit I imagine.

I should hopefully be good there (to a degree). The fan dance was a 35lb pack + food and water. It was heavy, but I never felt really overburdened for weight. Not being crew supported is good news for my 'no mates' standing

- It's not orienteering so I'm not sure how that would help. Personally I'd recce it all (which is the best training as well). Memorise the route and follow the map. Depends how unconfident you really are in navigating. I mostly use my phone for nav.

Good advice - I have Garmin Fenix , but will get a dedicated unit.

- hard and long fell races in similar terrain would help a lot - three peaks, Edale-marsden, most of the Lakes classics (particularly Langdale, killer), Kinder trog etc. Edale skyline. Again you've missed some of these for 2018. Scafell or Snowdon trail Marathon...

Going to google those, thanks!

- rather than weekly mileage I'd be more concerned with really long days out on your feet. No better way to do that than recce'ing the route. If you think about it you can break the southern part of the PW into 20 mile chunks and do most of it over two weekends. I think you can even do it by rail.

Great advice, thanks

Thanks tall_clare, busyLizzie, pasbury

shuffle:

- Apart from a generally good level of fitness and navigation ability, I think that the main thing that you need to prepare for is to be able to cope with being out in bad weather for very long periods of time, potentially completely on your own. The field can get quite spread out, so if you are not prepared for the isolation the hours can feel very long, especially at night. It is also worth remembering that it'll be dark most of the time - you'll only get about 24 hours of daylight in the 60 hours allowed to complete. 

Very good points. This actually attracts me to the race. Its a little scary, but I actually like that part of it. Totally point taken though, so will look to getting some all night out in bad weather experience.

- Something that does seem to catch some faster folk out is the expectation that they'll be able to run most of it. The weight of the compulsory kit, underfoot conditions and terrain mean that for most people there is a lot of walking and that can be hard to adapt to if you're used to moving quickly.

Thanks, so I will definitely plan to do run and walk. I have considered taking some hiking boots for the last leg. I ran / walked the fan dance in goretex merrells and it worked well - the extra support came in handy to stop my popping an ankle when the lactate turned my legs to jelly.

Roadrunner6 - thanks and ack! I think I have the experience more then some, I feel confident. The Fan Dance was a shorter route, but no walk in the park - it was the coldest and harshest conditions the race has ever had. Granted a lack of experience can lead to a nasty DNF I imagine!

How was meeting the entry criteria? I have mainly done road races, with the only trail / mountain even being the winter fan dance.

Hi There

I did the Peak District South to North ultra last November with these guys http://rangerultras.co.uk/index.php/peak-district-south-2-north/

There were many participants who were using it specifically as Spine training as day 2 covers the same route. 

The race organisers are also involved with the Spine and do specific Spine training weekends too.

I'll also second the recommendation for Hardmoors races; and if they are running any, their workshops are great too (good advice on running long distance ultras etc along with practical nav and technique training)

FRA do very well reviewed navigation training weekends, which together with route reccies, should sort you out.

According to reports from this year's Spine, a few racers had issues with their GPS devices (batteries in the cold I think) so had back-ups with them as well; which will be worth considering

Hello!

Being able to run 100 miles is of little relevance to the Challenger as unless you expect to be in the top 5 you will probably be walking most of it.

IMHO long hill days with full kit (or weights in your pack to make it up to expected weight) are the most valuable. Two of my key sessions were 50 miles in < 24 hours in winter, starting early afternoon, go into the night, bivvy and cook a meal using your stove system, get up in the dark and go again.

If you can do training sessions on the PW itself, knowing where you are going is invaluable (there is nothing worse than going wrong and having to back track).

Kit choice is so important, you need to be 100% confident in your kit for full winter conditions.

So I am beginning to flesh out a plan...

I will be running quite a few races over the summer (OMM / Cotswold Challenge 50k)

When 2018 / 19 winter starts rolling in, I will do as rob suggests and spend some nights out on my own over the weekend. Lots of kit tests. I will have most stuff already, but will go for a more lightweight approach than when I did the fan dance https://photos.app.goo.gl/dnpmgQ7fepOQhOQq2

1. Will start off with http://www.beaconsultra.com - I know the area well and its an hour from me.

2. After that, unless I am destroyed I will do the Cheviot Goat

3. If I am at the point 'Give me more!' I will do the challenge.

2020 will be the spine race!

No need to focus on races and events, it is unlikely you will "racing" the spine, more likely "surviving".

Put some kit together, load up rucksack and start hiking the Cambrian Way, learning navigation as you go (no waymarking) and wherever you finish catch public transport back to the start. Long weekends are good start, 3 days hard graft at a time is good basis.

Or the Pembs coast path, Penine way or any of the others, get some multi day time on your feet for started. Will be far better than a 100k race or whatever.

As well as spending a lot of time running and walking in the hills by myself, I'd done some long fell races, some long trail races, an ultra and several LDWA events before I entered.  

Off road stuff is much more useful than road races for something like this, both for the specificity of training and for getting a sense of your pace and practicing using equipment, nav skills etc.