UKC

Hi all. I am looking at doing an ascent of mont blanc, 1st week in September and am thinking about the Pope route on the Italian side from the Gonella Hut. The guidebook states the glacier may be too crevassed to cross by that point and that an alternative is via the aiguille grises ridge, which adds time. Does anyone have any knowledge of this, whether the glacier is usually doable by that point or is not recommended, and whether the aiguille grises ridge really is a viable alternative or it makes the overall climb too long/complex? Equally, if anyone has advice on an ascent on the same dates from the french side. The thing which most puts me off the french side is the need to book the Gouter hut long in advance, however camping by the tete rouge hut could be an option, albeit altitude acclimitisation could be more complex as if we camp we would want to take minimal food and get the ascent done the next day if possible. Grateful for any advice, thanks, Mike.

No idea about the Italian routes. However, the last time I did the Gouter route (1980 something) it was very early in the season and the tram way wasn't open. So, I walked up from the valley and bivvied near the Tete Rouge. I had come straight from Sheffield, so wasn't acclimatized, so I climbed up to the Gouter and spent the day lazing about. ISTR the hut wasn't open, but you could use the winter part. I then set off for the summit very early  the next morning and descended to the valley the same day.

We did the Gouter route last year, summited on the 29th September, as we wanted to avoid the crowds in peak season.  I'm pretty sure it was just about the last day that the hut was open (before closing for the winter - the hut staff were all in a party mood) & it was half empty.  The tramway is closed then so you have to do the full walk-in from the valley, we went to the Gouter hut in one push.  After summiting we descended back to the valley in the same day which was over 3500m descent in one go.  The conditions were excellent apart from the cold - it can get very cold later in the month (ended up wearing every item of clothing on the summit) - but 1st week of course wouldn't be that cold.  A number of people were camping outside the Tete Rousse hut...but it looked more than a bit a grim - and you've got to haul all your camping kit up & down the mountain (we passed a number of punters hauling ridiculous loads up).  The 'new' Gouter hut was a pleasant surprise, you'll feel much better for having a night there & a nice dinner rather than camping.

You can manage the Gouter hut booking online, I think we changed ours at least once.  But it will be very busy that time of year - hence the need to book so far in advance.

 Hi there,

Don't know about the pope route but we did the Aiguille Grises ridge in 2012 and it was outstanding. Didn't meet a soul until we hit the Dome. It's a very long day out and on that occasion we did not continue on to the summit of Mont Blanc (as the weather was turning). We descended the Gouter route in whiteoutish conditions into Chamonix instead.

I'd say a summit attempt is perfectly doable in good weather but you'll need to be quick and resist the urge to climb all the rock towers along the ridge. They're fun but will slow you down.

Late in the season I'd be careful on the final approach to the Gonnella hut. Would prob have to be early in the morning to do it safely. Friends of ours nearly fell into a few holes due to their limited jumping ability.

Hi, 

Did the Pope Route last year. Cracking route and quiet.

Breakfast at midnight at the Gonella Hut. Started at 1am, on top by 10am.

We descended down Gouter, a group of Italians descended the Pope Route and ended up being helicoptered out after one fell down a crevasse. We randomly met them in our campsite in Val Veny a day later which is how we found out. They were all having a beer and thankfully not injured. 

They obviously descended in the afternoon which was their downfall and the cause was a bridge collapsing.  

My point is that probably by the time you're thinking of going either all bridges will have collapsed or it won't be doable at all... but I'm no expert!

Hope that is of use. 

Edit - we were up there on 20th July-ish

Can't tell you anything about the Pope Route or Aig. Grises but on the French side you could consider the 3 Monts route and camp in the Vallee Blanche so you don't have to carry tents etc very far.

It's not without potential risks of course but I'd rather take my chances on a once every few years serac collapse on the NW slopes of Mont Blanc du Tacul than with the daily onslaught of rockfall in the couloir of death en-route to the Gouter hut.

Obviously its wise to enquire about the current state of the seracs in the Office de Haute Montagne and there can be windslab risk on those slopes after recent snowfall but that's reasonably predictable.

I came down that route, down the glacier to the Gonella hut years ago (1983), it was badly crevassed back then. I've no idea what it's like now.   

Owen, can you remember the date? Due to our dates, I am going off that route a bit, if we were going in June it would be my first choice. Thanks for responding. 

Thanks for the response, very good insight there.

Thanks for that, really good insight. I am more inclined now to perhaps do the tres monts routs and maybe descend down the gouter, due to our dates but will keep all options open until closer to the time. 

Definitely of use, all knowledge gratefully received! all helps to build a picture, pros and cons to all options, I am coming around to the tre monts route now though, due to our dates. I love the idea of the Italian side with its remoteness and no uplift, but perhaps if we were going in June it would have been better. 

Hi pec, I had dismissed the tres monts route at the start, however, the more I read into it, and given our dates, this route seems to be the best bet. Perhaps using the Gouter in descent if we need a quicker descent route, watching for the rockfall of course. many thanks for your response. 

I've always thought les 3 Monts was a great route and getting into the Cosmiques might be easier than the Goûter. Worth noting that the easiest/quickest descent from the summit is going back to the midi - even if it doesn't appear or feel that way at the time! 

A route you might not have thought of is the traverse of the Bionnassay from the Durier refuge, joining the Goûter route at the Vallot. Obviously a bit harder than les 3 Monts but I don't think any harder than the Aigs Grises (note I haven't done the Aigs Grises...). The Bionnassay route was the way I first climbed MB. As we'd approached the Durier from the Val Veny we went back down the Italian side, past the Gonella, intending to stay there but it was full with a huge Italian military group so we carried on without stopping (this was in the 70s when the hut was much smaller). I remember the glacier leading down to the hut being quite exciting. If we hadn't felt obliged to go down to Italy we'd probably have opted to go down to the Midi which would have made a fabulous traverse of the mountain. Note the Durier can also be approached from the French side which is probably more normal.

Probably around late July, it was a long time ago. We came down that way after doing the 3 Monts, made quite a long day. 

That's really great John, hadn't though of the Durier hut & the Bionassay traverse, but I will look into it. Liking the thought of the tres monts route as well I have to say. Many thanks. 

I did this last year.  The Aig Bionassay is superb (much better than Mont Blanc in fact).  A couple of points to note:

1) There is the quirky Plan Glacier Hut on the way to the Durier from the French side.  If you stay here, you can then do an out and back traverse of the Domes des Miage before staying at the Durier.

2) If you talk nicely to the guardienne at the Durier and are deemed worthy, she can arrange for the "full" Gouter not to be full if you end up descending late from the MB and don't want to risk the Grand Couloir.  I didn't actually do this but she contacted the Gouter to say I might.

Many thanks for this. Great response. I have to say, I got some great responses to this thread overall, it has given me a much better understanding of all the main routes and the considerations. The Bionassay does sound good I have to say. All the best. 

I did the Bionassay by the north face in early September some years ago (a fine climb at AD+) and then traversed on to the Dome de Gouter - in other words, by the same ridge you would use to get there by the "normal" traverse route.

The traverse down the very sharp knife edge to the col was horrendous: soft, sugar like snow with enormous exposure. Technically easy, but extremely dangerous. Be warned. In good snow conditions, I'm sure it would be fine. When I did it, I felt immensely relieved we didn't die. At that time I was handling Alpine TDs with not much bother.

Good point.  I did it with solid neve and a little ice and it felt secure.  However, it is a mind-blowingly exposed, long and narrow arete - more so than the Rochforte Arete or Lyskamm E ridge in the conditions I experienced

Yes walking, even allowing for a couple of degrees of camera tilt. In fact, Tim is so casual about it that he's got his axe in the wrong hand! Conditions, conditions, conditions.

Climbed  Bionassay from the Durier & completed the traverse in amazing neve conditions maybe 5 years ago, my only worry was the increasing wind, I didn't dare stop to take my rucksac off whilst on the ridge. Its an a amazing journey if found in good conditions of which I was fortunate to find that day after a fairly poor weather summer.

Interesting thread though as the pope route is the route of choice for my Sons attempt to climb MB this summer, hopefully early season in June after reading all of the above.

Early September can be very nice and quite, but can be out of condition already. You are likely to know a week in advance. Most of folks choose to climb in July / August because chances of getting good conditions are much higher. But even in the beginning of August you can have weeks of no go. In 2016 many huts were shut down and routes "closed" for long time mid summer.