UKC

My old Berghaus Choktoi, an excellent fully windproof (Gore Windstopper) fleece is getting knackered and I was looking to buy a new one...but they don't exist any more!

Further to that, it seems that nobody actually does a fully windproof soft-shell or reasonably heavy fleece any more.  This is quite a shame as I find it regulates my body temperature just about perfectly in almost any weather provided I'm moving with just a T-shirt or similar underneath.

Does anyone know of any still on the market?

Mountain Equipment Vulcan is Windstopper: https://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/vulcan-jacket

But I thought most soft shells were considered windproof?

I've got a soft shell as well which is quite good for running in temperatures of about 5 to 10 degrees (and casual wear), but it's quite thin fleece wise and it is definitely not fully windproof.  Most of them are advertised as wind resistant (due to the nylon top layer) which is not quite the same thing.

Cheers for the recommendation by the way.  Any others out there?

I've had a couple of Choktois and a Jack Wolfskin equivalent (also seemingly discontinued) - it's a shame they seem to have near vanished as a thing as I think they are really very good.

There are a fair few membrane softshells out there. I've got a Mammut Ultimate Hoody (Gore windstopper) and a Montane Sabretooth. Montane's mainly for winter use due to warmth, the Mammut's more versatile and only stays in the wardobe during summer.

Good prices on the Mammut at the moment.

https://uk.mammut.com/p/1010-14900-4573/ultimate-hoody-men/

Cheers, those look good, particularly a Mammut at that price.

Been pleasantly surprised with Montane Dyno Stretch jacket. Spent whole last weekend in it in winds strong enough to knock you over and it worked like a treat. 

I tend to run hot and had to dedicate ME Vulcan to urban duties. Montane Sabretooth is great, but I find it too warm in some cases. ME Squall has been my most favourite one and it’s getting warm enough for baselayer/Squall combo again (been up Tarnachan ridge yesterday with that combo). 

Just my 2p. 

I don't suppose you are small?  

https://www.nevisport.com/berghaus-mens-choktoi-windstopper-fleece-jacket?g...

I like windstopper fleece more than soft shell   I think it' a fashion thing that it's  not popular at the moment.

You could also look on a certain auction site beginning with e as there are some on there.  

Unfortunately quite the opposite of small 

Cheers all for the suggestions.

Have ordered the Montane Sabretooth...I want a pretty warm one as in summer I have a regular non-windproof softshell that does the job nicely.

Thanks again all.

Interesting, just double checked a couple of non-Windstopper ones, and you are right - not necessarily advertised as fully windproof.

Although the other one I have does seem to do a pretty decent job in the wind (another Mountain Equipment one using their "Exolite" soft shell).

Alpkit Morphosis, seems to fit the requirements, the reviews on their site are positive. 

Probably a bit less so, it refers to it as a layerable jacket so it is probably not as warm as I'm looking for (namely something that can be worn over a T-shirt in most non-wet weathers like the Choktoi can).

I've got one these: https://www.regatta.com/grove-fleece-black/

Amazingly windproof in all but -10degC windchill, and cheap.

I've always thought of Regatta as being a bit rubbish quality-wise. I take it this isn't? That's a very good price at the moment.

Probably more of an image problem, due to being a budget brand. At the end of the day a fleece is a fleece, how terrible can it be? 

I've worn mine almost everyday for the last six months or so for almost everything, trudging across the moors in the wind and rain, chopping and sawing wood. building work etc etc (generally getting covered in crap) and it's been through the washing machine numerous times, and not a single stitch has come loose and the zip still works.
Might be starting to look a bit worn, but I didn't get it to wear for when I go and meet Queenie for my Knighthood.
If it lasts into next year, which I can't see any reason why not, for less than £30 (Go Outdoors), I'll be well happy.

http://www.haglofs.com/gb/en-gb/mens-jackets-vests/multi-ws-hood-men/p/6037...

Gore Windstopper

You're probably right, but if I remember they were partly responsible - some of their early stuff was pretty poor quality. 

I remember talking to a guy who'd worked on product development for one of the budget brands, and he said that often the difference was in the design - paying designers less, cutting garments for simplicity rather than style and function, that kind of thing. And from my observation, inspection levels for faults so more faults get through. 

Sounds like a good reference!

You're welcome, hope it helps for your next choice of jacket.

Regards
A J Lusk (Regatta product Marketing manager, 2000 - present)

  Delete

It is.

Regatta stuff isn't cut for climber use, or, indeed, very active use. The block patterns are rather traditional, based on standard suit blocks. Hence the arm raise is often terrible. And the cut is quite boxy, built for a larger frame than mine.

If you want cheap, and reasonably designed, get to Decathlon. Generally; even they have design gaffes now and then. Unfortunately, IIRC, their membraned soft shell jackets might be one of those gaffes...

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/m-windwarm-500-blk-jacket-id_8370292.html

Cap sleeves, and the armscye looks stretched even with fairly gentle arm raise in one of the photos.

Yes, I've got one or two Decathlon items - pretty impressive.

I recently bought a day rucksack there for about £10 and it is really quite good.

I would love to know how they manage to sell decent stuff so cheaply.  Sure, it's probably made in a sweatshop, but so is more expensive kit other than that made by companies with a specific ethical policy who charge a lot more.

Well, this is Decathlon's spin on it - https://blog.decathlon.sg/2016/10/28/secrets-revealed-how-can-decathlon-pro...

Can't find much else about them. They don't do zero-hours contracts, they have a sustainability policy when many other sports companies don't. That's it. I suspect the full integration thing mentioned in the blog is a key element. 

Several on fleebay.

No XLs unfortunately, was the second place I looked after finding they were no longer on sale new.  I might keep my eye on it and buy one if it comes up anyway, then I've got one for later.

I have loads. Very happy with all of it, but I do pick my stuff carefully.

What evidence do you have that firms are using sweatshop labour? Who exactly? It's quite a serious claim to make - you might be correct - but I'd like to know which companies are guilty of this.

Windproof fleece was awful when it first came out because the membranes weren't very breathable and the fabrics were heavy and non flexi. It also struck me as a design for aesthetics/fashion because the fleece outside the membrane was pretty pointless besides making it look like fleece.

A modern membrane soft shell will be as breathable but work better as an outer layer I suspect.

I can just see it in the logbooks:

A Crack, VS 4c:  DNF, couldn't do the move due to wearing badly cut cheap jacket.  Will return next week and send it in my Arc'teryx.

FTFY...

Clothing can matter. I do remember as a youth having horrendous struggles in gritstone chimneys because of the obligatory hairy jumper of the time. 

Ian (Sherpa) Roper reckoned Allen Austin's legendary jumpers were specifically for coping with the kind of elephant's *rse top-outs you got at places like Brimham. 

I could've done with one of them.
When I started climbing, 1977, I always wore a suit/blazer type jacket, or the extremely breezy green Javlin jacket, and whatever trousers came to to hand in the morning and we were running up VSs every other day of the week.  Clothes had sod all effect on my crap climbing ability.

Talking of Allen Austin, we went down his to get kitted out for our first trip to the Alps, 78, we need mountain boots and crampons, here you go boys, probably the only ridged boots in the shop and the Salewa artic crampons with black straps.  Cheers Al, sorted.
Then, my wealthy mate ... I want a gortex jacket.  What colour do you want, red or blue?

Oh, life was so much simpler back then

I don't mean child exploitation, I mean people making garments on the cheap in poor working conditions, which while not as bad as it was is usual for Far Eastern manufacturing of almost anything.

I've had them for years and I am and long have been a big fan.

I had an early windproof fleece and it was pretty rubbish much as you describe - sweaty and rigid. It also let water in far faster than the average fleece, especially around the shoulder seams for some reason. 

There’s one on there now black xl

If by softshell you mean a pile and perfect combo (like buffalo) I quite like the marmot driclime. Bit thinner than buffalo/paramo gear, so good for 3 seasons. Worth getting one with a hood if you can, usually about 80 quid, but I recently got one brand new from America for £20, had to pay that again for shipping/taxes but well worth it. Lacks some features (the sleeves don't have fastenings and are quite tight so difficult to roll up) but I've found the material both windproof and breathable

Back to Regatta, don't know if anyone saw the Everest documentary with Kenton Cool on channel 5 tonight. But one of the Sherpa's interviewed was wearing a Regatta jacket.

It's probably safe to assume that the Sherpa aren't as influenced by marketing and brand snobbery as we are in the West. 

Decathlon is cheaper than Regatta.

Cheaper.

Better design.

Better materials.

What is snobbish about choosing cheaper and better?

I didn't say there was anything wrong with Decathlon. 

You suggested that not liking Regatta was down to snobbery.

Since I commented on the poor design of Regatta upthread, which invoked a comment about Arc'teryx, it's pretty clear that you and others think a dislike of Regatta is based on pure snobbery. In my case, it isnt. I just don't think it's very good; that's based on design and materials, not brand snobbery. It's okay, but I can buy stuff that is better and cheaper; a no-brainer.

If I were a brand snob, I'd wear expensive stuff like Arc'teryx. But I don't, because I don't think it's value for money, and it doesn't fit me; the only Arc product I own is my harness, bought because it fit me best of those I tried, and was on offer at the time.

Decathlon really do seem to achieve what you'd think was the unachievable, and be profitable while they are at it, too.  Very much the Aldi of sports equipment - own brand, cheap and still good quality.

I've been amazed by the quality of the £10 day rucksack I bought there a month or two ago - not just good quality but also some quite clever design elements.

Your response is well suited to your name. 

I got a rucksack (apernaz i think) for £6 a couple of years ago and it's still mint despite daily use! Can't see it breaking any time soon either.

Not many features but it sounds like those can be had for an extra £4