UKC

Micro cams in horizontal breaks. What's the deal?

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 alanblyth 04 Apr 2018

I decided to invest in some small cams (Black Diamond X4 - 0.1, 0.2, 0.3) to push a grade this year (They seem to become necessary/nice to have on some HVS/E1 onwards).

I have used others before and never given too much thought before stuffing them in a horizontal crack, ideally deep enough to be pretty confident they won't be torqued on a fall, but not giving much thought about the strength of the stem until I read the paperwork that came with my new cams, see image:

https://ibb.co/e5O2rc

My interpretation of this image is: "You can stick these cams in a horizontal break, and consider it a safe placement, but it may damage the stem, so inspect it after a fall".

Can UKC tell me if my interpretation here is correct, and whether anyone would avoid using this placement? (For arguments sake, let's assume other pieces of pro aren't available).

 Andy Johnson 04 Apr 2018
In reply to alanblyth:

I think your interpretation is correct, and also that it is a reasonable/safe gear placement in most circumstances.

Personally I would consider a nut first, unless it was important to get some pro in quickly and I didn't want to mess around.

Post edited at 14:22
In reply to alanblyth:

That's always been the case.

I think most if not all gear will say "inspect after fall..."

 Max Hangs 04 Apr 2018
In reply to alanblyth:

Having looked at the pic, I actually don't agree with that interpretation. The arrow on that picture highlighted in green leads you on to a clarifying picture, which seems to suggest a single bend is OK but a "double bend" is not permitted (i.e. you're fine in almost all normal breaks/placements).

 

EDIT: Just to be clear (and as mentioned above), all gear should be inspected after every fall anyway (and on a regular basis if there are no falls).

Post edited at 15:07
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 elsewhere 04 Apr 2018
In reply to Max Hangs:

I think that means the double bend is permitted, but has warning - possibly because you can't  be sure the trigger is unobstructed.

 

OP alanblyth 04 Apr 2018
In reply to alanblyth:

I agree with:

>Having looked at the pic, I actually don't agree with that interpretation. The arrow on that picture highlighted in green leads you on to a clarifying picture, which seems to suggest a single bend is OK but a "double bend" is not permitted (i.e. you're fine in almost all normal breaks/placements).

With the update:

> I think that means the double bend is permitted, but has warning - possibly because you can't  be sure the trigger is unobstructed.

 

It seems quite obvious now @Wanderlust has pointed out the arrow to the clarifying image.

 jkarran 04 Apr 2018
In reply to alanblyth:

> My interpretation of this image is: "You can stick these cams in a horizontal break, and consider it a safe placement, but it may damage the stem, so inspect it after a fall".

> Can UKC tell me if my interpretation here is correct, and whether anyone would avoid using this placement? (For arguments sake, let's assume other pieces of pro aren't available).

That's how I'd read it. I'd use the placement, cams are much cheaper than 6 months off work in plaster.

All cams get mangled by their placements eventually when fallen on in the real world. Ironically it's the snappy old rigid stems that seem most immune to it (right up until they aren't).

jk

 

 jkarran 04 Apr 2018
In reply to alanblyth:

> It seems quite obvious now @Wanderlust has pointed out the arrow to the clarifying image.

I'd read that second image as: straighten slight bends, don't use if it's totally mangled.

jk

 Max Hangs 04 Apr 2018
In reply to elsewhere:

> I think that means the double bend is permitted, but has warning - possibly because you can't  be sure the trigger is unobstructed.


That makes more sense to be fair, just didn't want to over promise on the cam manufacturer's behalf!

Lord knows how you'd place a cam in such a placement anyway. You'd need rubber arms

 

 elsewhere 04 Apr 2018
In reply to jkarran:

> I'd read that second image as: straighten slight bends, don't use if it's totally mangled.

> jk

That might be it.

 Max Hangs 04 Apr 2018
In reply to jkarran:

Yeah I've changed my mind actually. 

Caution if your stem is all bent!

I can't imagine any placements/loadings that would cause a double bend in the stem anyway.

 markalmack 04 Apr 2018
In reply to alanblyth:

I think it's the trigger wires that take the most damage from horizontal placements. The stem may get bent a bit, but most of the time you can bend it back. On most cams the load bearing part of the stem (the metal cable) is covered, and damage to this is pretty unlikely. If possible, try to place the cam so the part that passes over the edge is a tough bit - i.e. the thumb lop. Also, I will often push the trigger forward after i have placed it if it looks like they will be under tension when loaded.

If that's your only option then definitely place it. Even if it's not, still place it and try not to fall off. 

2
 john arran 04 Apr 2018
In reply to markalmack:

I try not to use cams with a thumb lop. There's only so many times you can rely on them to do what they say on the tin.

OP alanblyth 05 Apr 2018
In reply to john arran:

Can you expand on that?

 john arran 05 Apr 2018
In reply to alanblyth:

To be fair, I probably should have added a smiley 

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