UKC

So just turned 40 and family commitments means I have to find a job that doesn't involve spending half my life overseas. Been climbing for over 20 years but work has stopped me from getting fully in to it. Mostly done UK trad but some winter/alpine experience as well. Not especially gifted at sports but not useless either, and super fit.

So basically how easy would it be at my age and with my skills to qualify as an instructor or guide in the UK and make a decent living out of it. There seems to be about 100 different qualifications out there - is it actually feasible to make money from any of them?! I don't need to earn big bucks but it would have to be financially worthwhile, not just an expensive hobby!

Any thoughts?

This will be the same sticking point (IMHO). 

I'm 50 this year. Been doing the job (instruction) for half that time. Got a young family now (5 & 7yo). I'm based in Sheffield and make a worthwhile living (evened out over the year it's probably only just better than minimum wage on a 35hr week). I'm away a lot from March to October. 

The certs themselves aren't the hard part though. Getting the contacts and building up a years worth of work takes a long time. 

FWIW I'm seriously considering dipping out. Never thought time with the kids would be so important...! 

Yes. No. Maybe.

It depends a little on what 'a decent living' means. £20-£22k before tax is the norm for some instructors/leaders and a pipedream for others. 

As Stuart says, getting the awards isn't that hard, but it's essentially day-contract self employment in a very crowded market - and working most weekends and throughout the summer. It's not just about the awards held, but also about personality, professionalism and supporting skills (if you can handle basic web design, marketing and writing/content creation you will probably have the edge over peers with the same awards.

Another factor is that despite the growth in the UK outdoor adventure industry/market over the past 3 years or so the number of people wanting to pay a good rate (i.e. enough to sustain a small business with minimal overheads) hasn't changed that much. I would wager that the vast majority of the increased spend in places like Snowdonia has gone into accommodation, gear shops and petrol stations - not activity providers.

The leaders/instructors I know who make enough to pay a mortgage and support a family (just) are either business owners and/or hold higher award levels so they can offer training to other instructors. There are A LOT of freelancers out there now (following a post-recession growth) and finding freelancers with the appropriate award for leading a group or a session isn't hard. Finding GOOD people is as hard as it ever was.

I do OK, but I work long hours, own several 'brands' and do some weird and wonderful stuff (location scouting/safety, training for emergency services/industry, event safety consultancy). I have been self employed for most of my adult life so am used to it now.

The experience of others may vary. 

Wow, thanks for the indepth replies. Wasn't expecting so much good info so fast. Sounds like it's possible but all-consuming. Maybe not ideal.

On the other hand this wouldn't be my only income, and my present job takes me out of the country for months at a time, so it might still be worth giving a go!

Just been on the website and I notice that you need to have the mountain leader before going on to mountain instructor. Can you go straight to mountain leader or do you have to go through lowland leader course first?

Cheers Steve

You can do ML -> MIA (without SPA/RCI) and without doing the Lowland Leader.

It could be, though one pitfall I've found is that when offered work from a new organisation or client that I've had to say no to (because of a diary clash usually), then I never hear from them again. So there is a tendency to have to say yes when I sometimes want to say no (which then eats into any spare time). As Richie mentioned, it's pretty crowded out there.

In my opinion, not a great career move for a number of reasons

You will be away from home a lot

Your age (without contacts, reputation etc) works against you

You will be in competition with loads of kids who think climbing instruction is a cool thing to do and prepared to work for min wage or less to be cool

Your dearly loved hobby will become your job and you may well end up resenting your hobby

I know a number of highly qualified guides who work all over the world yet still end up polishing carabiner in gear shops to make ends meet in the off season

I hate to say it but a proper job may suit you better 

That would be the death of me! But ta for the advice. Maybe I should look at other options too.

Well I’m a full time MIA with my own small business, the lowest rate I’ll earn a day is £160, the most somewhere around £400.

Its a proper job and for me has never, ever detracted from my enjoyment of personal climbing.

It took me years to get to a comfortable point though, monetarily.

Theres far more to bring successful at it than just being a decent instructor.

Its a great career though and I know people who have come to it “late”, and do very well, they may well have lots to offer that younger people don’t.

100% this

There are very few freelance climbing instructors that don't have a handful of other feathers in their caps and other outdoor skills/quals. Never had an application from anyone with a climbing qual that doesn't also have other outdoor certificates - kayaking, daingy sailing, mountain biking, archery...etc. etc.

Think about centre work vs. freelance and which would suit you better, the standard issue route for freelancers is an aweful lot of work at the start to get established, gainging experience at walls/activity centre, low pay, long hours, childminding type work (e.g. harnessing kids, orienteering games, nature walks etc. as apposed to leading someone up tower ridge in your first week), gaining contacts, spending a lot of your wage on training and spending large amounts of time travelling around the country. A lot of outdoor instructors in their 30's and 40's are trying to find ways to get away from the instability of freelance work - working towards being senior staff, mangement, doing more office work related to the outdoors, going down the training route etc. So there would be a few painful years for you I guess but there's no reason you couldn't work towards having some stability and a stable £20kpa in 5-10 years time depending on what route you took. Outdoor instructions isn't going to make you money, give you a pension or put your kids through uni.

It might be useful to brainstorm how else you can market your skills to support your work as a climbing instructor and expect that the amount of climbing work you do in your first few years will be more of a treat and not your main source of income while you're getting qualified in various other disciplined. Even then a lot of your time will be spent belaying and watching other's do well at easy climbs compared to climbing yourself. How are you going to get by in the winter? Can you use a chainsaw, work at heights, drive a digger, fix boats, work in a climbing shop, do maintenence work, have decent seo/web development experience, groundswork/gardening? Most of the instructors I've come across do those kinds of things, even MIC's with 30 years on you.

Just as an observation, outdoor instuction is customer service, make sure that's what you want to do. People are paying for your personality and spending time with you a lot more than they are your climbing skills. All things being equal, an enthusiastic people person with experience leading groups and entertaining screaming kids that can only manage to scrape up a VS is going to have a lot more potential than an e2 cruiser who's climbed all their life but isn't a people person. Also goes without saying you're probably going to want to live close to outdoors hotspots.

Some wise words here. I would say that it's worth getting a mountain leadership qualification. I have enjoyed leading all sorts of people during my retirement. Through volunteering I have visited several countries and met some great individuals  And it hasn't cost me anything!  In terms of personal development I derived a great deal of satisfaction from achieving MTB awards  Also I've earned enough through freelance work to pay for my gear, which is nice.

One thing you need to know about the awards, though, is they don't give them away. You have to be thoroughly competent in all areas of the relevant syllabi . Visit the mountain training association website to get clued in. (apologies if you have already done that) 

It's worthwhile, but not easy, it is also possible to make a really good living but with significant downsides; the perception that being older is a disadvantage is simply not true but it's quite crowded in some sectors.

Some thoughts I put down a while back:


http://www.access-mountain.com/single-post/2014/11/22/How-to-survive-a-care...

Thanks all for your advice. I would've rathered been told it was the best job in the world with tons of opportunity, but honesty is definitely preferable to blind optimism!

Might still give it a go, like I said it wouldn't be my only stream of revenue and I am a bit of an optimist at heart!

I least I have a better idea of what I'd be getting myself into now.

Please define 'a proper job'