UKC

Wire bushing lichen from gritstone.

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I climbed in the Amber Valley last weekend and some of the boulders have been reclaimed by nature.  The problem I was looking at in particular was Top Dog on Tiger Wall at Bradley Edge:  Top Dog (f7A)

It is totally covered in a mix of lichen, a bit of moss and general green ming.  I spent some time with a normal (nylon?) scrubbing brush trying to clean it up but I don't think any amount of this is going to make it climbable again.  The lichen is just too well attached.  Is giving it a wire brush to bring it back into a climbable state fair game?  Also, can anyone think of any other method of cleaning that would be better?  It will be a couple of weeks before I get a chance to go back so I thought I'd see what ideas people have or better still experience of things that have worked.  I've cleaned places up before (like Bottoms Quarry near Glossop a couple of years ago) but always managed with a scrubbing brush and shears.

Thanks

P.S. not click bait or a troll, genuine question.  I'm also not someone who is going to brush the living daylights out of it to improve the holds.  This is about the best way to make an existing problem climbable again.

 

5
 kfv 27 Apr 2018
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

I'm not sure about the wire brush issue, but given that this area was only cleaned up a short time ago when the Froggat to Black Rocks guide came out and has already been reclaimed by nature, is it worth the effort? There obviously hasn't been much traffic/ interest in the crag. 

2
In reply to kfv:

I'm happy to give things a clean even if its just me that climbs them to be honest.  Its very close to my mother in laws house so I don't mind spending a bit of time there!

In reply to Somerset swede basher:

The simple answer is no. Quite simply no.

4
In reply to Graeme Alderson

That's OK.  Do you have any useful suggestions/alternatives?  Other than the obvious 'don't climb the problem and neither does anyone else ever again'

In reply to Somerset swede basher:

Treat the boulder/the gritstone with respect. Gritstone has a patina. If you break the patina then you destroy (eventually) the rock.

The rock is more important than a single boulder problem. In my opinion of course.

So the alternative is more work from you with a softer brush that will not damage the rock.

Post edited at 15:37
8
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

That sounds very reasonable.  I'll give it an hour with the scrubbing brush next time I'm there and see if that makes much difference.  I've never come across lichen like this stuff - its like its welded on!

 mrphilipoldham 27 Apr 2018
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

Try climbing in the Chew Valley, it'll be a good warm up! 

2
 mark20 27 Apr 2018
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

It's much easier when it's slightly damp and the moss/algae has absorbed some water - but not soaking wet. You still need to be fairly careful as the rock itself is also a bit more fragile, but this is still preferable to a wire brush. I normally use a stiff nylon smokers toothbrush. Then put a bit (or a lot, if well out of sight) of chalk on all the holds to help kill off the moss/algae. Wait a day or so and it should be good for a while.

In reply to mark20:

Thanks, that's really helpful.  I'll take an extra water bottle down next time and use that.

 Offwidth 27 Apr 2018
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

I've never had a problem removing surface lichen from established gritstone problems with a plastic brush. The rock often still looks green even long after anything affecting friction has gone (just because its green it might not need a clean). Moss usually peels off apart from the area edges which usually need brushing off. It can all be hard work. If you use a wire brush and go through the hard surface layer the problem will soon be trashed.

Not been to Bradley for a couple of years but I know from locals it still gets some traffic. Top Dog looked OK on my last visit.

In reply to Offwidth:

Its just that face of the Top Dog block that is covered in lichen.  It didn't look like anyone had been on it for a very long time. The stuff on the block just inside the woods was green but very climbable.  I didn't try the stuff in the open further down the hill but it looked fine from a distance.

 mark20 27 Apr 2018
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

I can't picture the problem you mention but if there are any branches, brambles or bracken growing close to it then it will help to trim this back to improve airflow and stop the dampness that the moss loves

In reply to mark20:

Its on the first block you get to as you walk in.  Undercut face with a bit of a drop on the right. Moss is sorted now but its the lichen on the hold you jump to at the start that was the problem.  It doesn't look like an amazing problem hence the lack of traffic but I fancied giving it a go.  There is an off width on the left.

 Offwidth 27 Apr 2018
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

It does have some unique benefits as a problem being under that enclosed roof area.. almost snow proof.

 petegunn 27 Apr 2018
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

Try a towl as well, make sure its a thick one. Good Egyption cotton, Try bunching it up and scrubbing with it. Works well for me.

In reply to Somerset swede basher:

Roundup? 

2
Deadeye 27 Apr 2018
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

Big up for asking.... but you know the answer really.

No wire brushes.

Then the question becomes how best to remove without a wirebrush/grinding wheel/dynamite.

Stiff nylon slightly damp.

 

In reply to Deadeye:

Yeah, your right. Feeling frustrated after giving it a real good go with the scrubbing brush and getting nowhere. Will get a narrower stiffer nylon brush and a bottle of water and try again. 

 John Kelly 27 Apr 2018
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

Just grade it with the lichen in situ 

 EddInaBox 27 Apr 2018
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

> ... The lichen is just too well attached.  Is giving it a wire brush to bring it back into a climbable state fair game?

Depends on whether it is a protected species listed in Schedule 8 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981.

http://www.ukwildlife.com/index.php/wildlife-countryside-act-1981/schedule-...

1
 Chris Harris 27 Apr 2018
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

> Treat the boulder/the gritstone with respect. Gritstone has a patina. If you break the patina then you destroy (eventually) the rock.

> The rock is more important than a single boulder problem. In my opinion of course.

> So the alternative is more work from you with a softer brush that will not damage the rock.

I understand that ethos with respect to problems/areas that see traffic- we don't want people brushing holds into oblivion, ruining the problem for many possible subsequent users, but how far can you extend it?

There's a random lump of chossy rock in a wood. Nobody has ever climbed it.

Someone cleans it with a wire brush, climbs it, writes it up. 

Nobody else climbs it. 

It returns to nature.

Someone else comes along, cleans it again with a wire brush, climbs it, sticks it in their UKC logbook. 

Nobody else climbs it. 

It returns to nature.

Nobody dies. The rock is still there. 

No doubt the argument will be put forward that there is no way of knowing whether or not said lump of rock may at some point be some mega important site, with continental stars descending on it in droves to tick classics....

 

Post edited at 23:54
2
 tehmarks 28 Apr 2018
In reply to Chris Harris:

I'd say it's pretty clear-cut: don't do anything which causes damage to the rock - whatever the rock - and you're good. Not taking wire brushes to sandstone and gritstone should be an immutable rule based on common sense.

1
 FactorXXX 28 Apr 2018
In reply to Chris Harris:

Clean it with a wire brush and there's a very real chance that the brushed areas will become a mess of crumbling debris.

3
 Bolehillbilly 28 Apr 2018
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

It was done in 2004 and I would be surprised if it's had an ascent since. I have a vague memory of TB taking a bit of a running jump off one skinny pad to match the hold. Be good to hear of a repeat and get a grade check. Most likely I graded it from the floor after TB said something like 'felt quite tricky'. 

Bradley is mostly quite fine grained and a bit green and can feel hard work if there's any moisture in the air. Great set of problems though a deserves more traffic.

 

 Chris Harris 28 Apr 2018
In reply to tehmarks:

> I'd say it's pretty clear-cut: don't do anything which causes damage to the rock - whatever the rock - and you're good. Not taking wire brushes to sandstone and gritstone should be an immutable rule based on common sense.

Better have a quick word with the 200+ million-tonnes-per-year UK quarrying/mineral extraction industry. 

Perspective?

2
 tehmarks 28 Apr 2018
In reply to Chris Harris:

That's an absurd argument and you know fine well it's an absurd argument.

1
In reply to Chris Harris:

Yes,perspective. What is your perspective about screwing up good quality climabable rock. Please explain.

 Chris Harris 28 Apr 2018
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

> Yes,perspective. What is your perspective about screwing up good quality climabable rock. Please explain.

It can't be that good if it was first done in 2004 & hasn't been done since. 

 Timmd 28 Apr 2018
In reply to Chris Harris:

> Better have a quick word with the 200+ million-tonnes-per-year UK quarrying/mineral extraction industry. 

> Perspective?

That's not perspective. Perspective is that rock which is being quarried isn't anything to do with wire brushing a boulder problem, because A), it's somewhere else, and B) People are highly unlikely to be bouldering in a working quarry, through not being allowed to.

Post edited at 15:41
 Offwidth 29 Apr 2018
In reply to Bolehillbilly:

I've seen several ascents, some partial, just doing the hard moves. No one complained about the grade.


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